The Best Coil for Clouds? Explaination / Help needed?

[The Easy Vaper]

So I am going to buy the Snow wolf 200w and allready currently own the mutation X V4.
I want to get a coil build which is going to produce awesome clouds.
I have read a lot of posts and so far I understand a few things affect the vapor:

- Surface area (thicker wire or more wires / parallel and stuff / more wraps)
- Wattage / power and lower ohm
- Heat produced (heatflux) less heat is cool vape but probably also less clouds? right?
- Heat capacity (lower is quciker is probably better)
- ofc also things like airflow wicking and stuff... but lets focus on the coil itself.

So all this stuff needs to be balanced. So with the steam engine I made a theoretical coil that is quite balanced imo. However I have no idea if its realy balanced well for clouds.

It is basically a dual - 4 strand parallel build with about 8 wraps - 26 AWG (regular A1 Kanthal)
resulting in .15 ohm. Stats:

Wire length (lr - ll) 101.6 mm
Outer diameter (⌀c+2⌀r) 3.81 mm
Neutral axis diameter 3.4 mm
Loop circumference 11.97 mm
Helix angle 7.9 °
Length of each loop 12.08 mm
Width 13.9 mm
Surface area 516.72 mm²

Resistance wire length 106.6 mm
Number of wraps 8.4
— rounded to "full wraps" 8 (0.29 Ω)
— rounded to "half wraps" 9/8 (0.3 Ω)
Resistance per coil 0.3 Ω
Heat flux @ 200W :
184 mW/mm²

Heat capacity (each coil) 179.24 mJ/K
Leg power loss 4.7 %

I need help. I realy would like to know how this coil will preform for clouds and how I could improve it.
For example.... maybe you guys think the heatflux is too low even at 200w. Or the heat capacity is too high? Surface area seems pretty big though. I do not know if you need to max out the surface area for best clouds. Please let me know how to improve this or maybe show a totally different build that provides way better clouds!

Thanks in advance!

 

[classwife]

Moved this to Temperature Control from Ask The Veterans.

You need discussion...not just replies.

 

[The Easy Vaper]

Moved this to Temperature Control from Ask The Veterans.

You need discussion...not just replies.

Thank you

 

[GeorgeS]

I think this is the wrong forum for the build you posted - "Kanthal" is not a wire that can be used in temperature control. With that said using TC on most of the modern mods that support it is a juggling act of sorts.

• all mods have some sort of a minimum resistance and some mods have a maximum resistance that can be used in TC mode
• Ni, Ti and SS wire have much less resistance than Kanthal (drop by SteamEngine and plug some values in using common TC wires and gauges and see for yourself)
• the 'juggling act' as it were is:

1. getting enough windings to be over your minimum resistance
2. using a wire gauge where you can fit #1 into/onto your build deck
3. using a thick enough wire so that your coil does not deform while wicking it
4. larger diameter wire has higher surface area but less resistance, there will be a 'sweet spot' that you'll be able to fit into/onto your deck
5. very large ID coils with very small diameter wire may require more wattage to heat up in a timely manor than many TC mods can provide - many top out at ~50w with Ni200

You have to use 'spaced windings' with Ni200 and the softer metal is easily pinched off with capture type posts. Since the metal is very soft in the smaller diameter gauges wicking without deforming the coil (and causing shorts) can be very problematic.

Ti1 wire can be used with spaced windings or contact coils however in the latter care needs to be taken to ensure there are no 'hot spots' or 'hot legs' while (as many users do) avoiding overheating the coil or setting it on fire.

I'd suggest getting yourself a selection of 24-32AWG Ni200 (I usually build with 28-32AWG) and start plugging the numbers into SteamEngine. Dual coils are quite possible with Ni200, you just have to plan accordingly.

 

[edyle]

For more efficient cloud production you want high surface area per ohm.

For the coil type that has high surface area per ohm, there is ribbon wire and claptons.

 

[Jesse Wright]

With 4 strand parallel 26 ga and 3.4mm Id you're looking a a big coil at 8 wraps. It could be doable, but fitting 4 wires in your post hole without them crossing eachother is going to be.... next to impossible. But maybe doable. This setup would provide huge surface area and 1.5 ohms would get them glowing pretty quickly. I'd try w kanthal, if that isn't your intention already, before ti. Nickel is pretty much impossible w this build. All in all it would be tough but definitely would be throwing clouds. The heat I'm not so sure of... could be a cooler vape or a very hot one. The steam engine is saying it would be a cooler vape, but that isn't always a bad thing, and It could perform differently, but it may have some ramp up time. I've seen small diameter 24ga duals throw huge clouds, like if you wrapped your wire around your wire, it just takes a lot of wraps like 10 with 24 ga around 24 ga wire to get a .3 ohm coil. Easier to build though, and a little hotter I think these builds use a LOT of juice though, which is to be expected when you're blowing monster clouds.

 

[The Easy Vaper]

For more efficient cloud production you want high surface area per ohm.

For the coil type that has high surface area per ohm, there is ribbon wire and claptons.

I actually thought claptons were just for flavor not vapor?

 

[The Easy Vaper]

With 4 strand parallel 26 ga and 3.4mm Id you're looking a a big coil at 8 wraps. It could be doable, but fitting 4 wires in your post hole without them crossing eachother is going to be.... next to impossible. But maybe doable. This setup would provide huge surface area and 1.5 ohms would get them glowing pretty quickly. I'd try w kanthal, if that isn't your intention already, before ti. Nickel is pretty much impossible w this build. All in all it would be tough but definitely would be throwing clouds. The heat I'm not so sure of... could be a cooler vape or a very hot one. The steam engine is saying it would be a cooler vape, but that isn't always a bad thing, and It could perform differently, but it may have some ramp up time. I've seen small diameter 24ga duals throw huge clouds, like if you wrapped your wire around your wire, it just takes a lot of wraps like 10 with 24 ga around 24 ga wire to get a .3 ohm coil. Easier to build though, and a little hotter I think these builds use a LOT of juice though, which is to be expected when you're blowing monster clouds.

Thanks for the advice and feedback realy helps! Im still fiddling around with steam engine... maybe i should just try to build like 3 different ones and see how they preform

 

[The Easy Vaper]

Maybe u recon this 1 to be better?
tinyurl. com/pwv666v

Remove spaces

 

[Jesse Wright]

Thanks for the advice and feedback realy helps! Im still fiddling around with steam engine... maybe i should just try to build like 3 different ones and see how they preform

That's what I do! What sounds good on paper or in your head you may end up not liking.

Maybe u recon this 1 to be better?
tinyurl. com/pwv666v

Remove spaces

So you do like a cool vape! Me too. I think this would be way easier to build and vapor production would be about the same/a little less. I am more for flavor, but I do like a nice cloud as well. Airflow and surface area of coil I find is imperative for cloud production. A lot of cloud chasers go for hot vapes though, so that the coils are vaporizing juice really really fast and producing huge hot clouds of vapor.

 

[The Easy Vaper]

That's what I do! What sounds good on paper or in your head you may end up not liking.


So you do like a cool vape! Me too. I think this would be way easier to build and vapor production would be about the same/a little less. I am more for flavor, but I do like a nice cloud as well. Airflow and surface area of coil I find is imperative for cloud production. A lot of cloud chasers go for hot vapes though, so that the coils are vaporizing juice really really fast and producing huge hot clouds of vapor.

Usually i got cool vapes but for clouds i wanted to try something else if heat flux realy changes the clouds i should try a warm vape. With my mutation x v4 i got tons of airflow and i can even put the cool adaptor on it to make it even cooler.
What i did notice is that the only way to get a hot vape for clouds is to increase the ohm. So that surface area is still big and u get a hot vape. So... my last question is... for cloud chasing:

what is the rule

Heat + surface area > ohm
or
Ohm>surface>heat
or maybe
surface> ohm > heat

In order from left being most important and right the least
U got an answer to that?
Cuz maybe I need to buil at higher ohm and get that nice surface area + heat?

 

[The Easy Vaper]

Opinions on this example build:
http://www.steam-engine.org/coil.asp?a=true&p=roundmulti&s=dp&r=0.35&hfnw=150&str=4&awg=28&id=4

 

[ThunderDan]

No way you're fitting a 4 strand parallel 8-10 wrap coil in a MXv4. 4 strands, and 10 wraps? that's a really long coil.

Why don't you just get some thicker wire? Get some 20, or 22g and just throw watts at it. Also remember, the lower ohm build, the less accurate the power output will be on the Snowwolf.

 

[The Easy Vaper]

No way you're fitting a 4 strand parallel 8-10 wrap coil in a MXv4. 4 strands, and 10 wraps? that's a really long coil.

Why don't you just get some thicker wire? Get some 20, or 22g and just throw watts at it. Also remember, the lower ohm build, the less accurate the power output will be on the Snowwolf.

Maybe something like this build is more acceptable?
http://www.steam-engine.org/coil.asp?a=true&p=roundmulti&s=dp&r=0.1&hfnw=150&str=3&awg=24&id=3
The surface area is a lot less though. The ohm went from .35 to .1 Rampup time is about the same. It is a warmer vape though.
Would you recon this to be a ....ty surface area?

 

[Cacique]

Only problem I see is that you're looking to make a build that will be the equivalent of about 18-20 wraps, that's gonna be really big. Why don't you just try a dual parallel with the 24 gauge wire and start there?

 

[The Easy Vaper]

I tried out a lot of different coils, even a fused clapton although im just a newb with coil building. So far, the best coil was quite a simple build.

I made a 2 strand twisted 23g wire, 6 wraps coil. Made 2 of these, and the 2 coils together came out to be .17 ohm .... I get HUGE clouds... eats juice like crazy though.
Vape is quite warm, heats up quite fast too.

 

[ThunderDan]

That sounds like a more reasonable build, glad you found something you like.

 

[The Easy Vaper]

That sounds like a more reasonable build, glad you found something you like.

You were so right I tried fitting that monster long build in my MXv4 and it didnt fit I have to say, It almost did! but it was a pain to get it centered and make it work. I bet if I was a bit more experienced and knew how to do it perfectly + tilt it a bit, it could fit But yea... the build I have right now works like ....

U got any other suggestions that work amazing for clouds?

Btw, do u think this could fit ?
http://www.steam-engine.org/coil.as...&s=qp&r=0.065&hfnw=150&str=2&awg=23&id=3&ll=3
Quad coil xD

1 more question.... is quad coil worth it? or is dual king?

 

[ThunderDan]

You were so right I tried fitting that monster long build in my MXv4 and it didnt fit I have to say, It almost did! but it was a pain to get it centered and make it work. I bet if I was a bit more experienced and knew how to do it perfectly + tilt it a bit, it could fit But yea... the build I have right now works like ....

U got any other suggestions that work amazing for clouds?

Btw, do u think this could fit ?
http://www.steam-engine.org/coil.as...&s=qp&r=0.065&hfnw=150&str=2&awg=23&id=3&ll=3
Quad coil xD

1 more question.... is quad coil worth it? or is dual king?

I'm not sure it'd fit to be honest. Plus the resistance being that low, not sure the Snowwolf would fire it, maybe it would, but I think it has a soft limit of .1ohm for kanthal builds (I could be wrong on that).

Quad coils can be fun, I've mainly used them on larger RDAs (than the mxv4), and on unregulated boxes where I wanted a low ohm build for maximum power. Its worth a try, if nothing else just to try it. I've got a quad 24g coil in my Kennedy v2 right now, ohms out to .08, and I use it on a mech with 30A batteries (vtc4s) (not recommending doing that, just saying I've done it).

 

[The Easy Vaper]

I'm not sure it'd fit to be honest. Plus the resistance being that low, not sure the Snowwolf would fire it, maybe it would, but I think it has a soft limit of .1ohm for kanthal builds (I could be wrong on that).

Quad coils can be fun, I've mainly used them on larger RDAs (than the mxv4), and on unregulated boxes where I wanted a low ohm build for maximum power. Its worth a try, if nothing else just to try it. I've got a quad 24g coil in my Kennedy v2 right now, ohms out to .08, and I use it on a mech with 30A batteries (vtc4s) (not recommending doing that, just saying I've done it).

Can you maybe tell me the advantage of having a quad coil over a dual? Is it realy more vapor production ? or flavor? Or is it just to be fancy Like: FU! do you even quad coil ?
Is it functional or mainly for aesthetic value is what im asking? And if so, in your experience how is it better?