Ugh, lungs hurt.

Discussion in 'New Members Forum' started by vivictus, Nov 14, 2010.

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  1. vivictus

    vivictus Super Member ECF Veteran

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    I got my new shipment the other day from Gourmet Vapor and since I've been vaping it, I've noticed my lungs are a bit sore, I have a sharp pain in my left shoulder similar to when you have really bad gas (some ppl get it, some don't), and my breathing is more difficult. When I vaped the juices I got from FSUSA I had none of this going on. Both batches were 24mg nic. The ONLY change (other than different companies) was that the ones from FSUSA were 50/50pg/vg and the new batch from GV is 80/20pg/vg.

    Could just increasing the pg really cause such a dramatic effect? And if so, how much vg would I need to add (I am bad at math) in order to get it down closer to a 50/50 mix? I know adding vg will lower the nic levels, but I am ok with that as long as I feel better.
     
  2. KiTTy3000

    KiTTy3000 Full Member

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    Could be that you have a sensitivity to pg, or it could be that the brand isn't honest about the quality of their ingredients.

    Regardless whatever the cause may be, immediately discontinue using the product. If it hurts, don't do it; that's your body telling you something is wrong. Explain your problem to the company, and they may allow you to return it for a replacement/brand that works for you.
     
  3. **Lori**

    **Lori** Full Member

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    Hello Vivictus. In my 5 months of vaping and using juices from different places, I quickly found that I could not vape PG liquids. I cough alot and constantly clear my throat from PG, which is kinda like an allergic reaction. I went to VG or mostly VG (75% or more) and I'm fine. You say your lungs hurt...could that be from coughing alot?
    I've not tried Gourmet Vapor but maybe if you change around your PG/VG percentages, things will all be good again. Perhaps, add a little VG to your bottle or to a small amount to check it out. Also, high nic content can make it a harsher vape. I used to vape 24 mg and now I'm at 0. Once in a while I vape a little nic...ya know, those stressful days.
    Good luck
     
  4. vivictus

    vivictus Super Member ECF Veteran

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    Yeah, just seemed weird to be fine at 50/50 but not 80/20. As for gourmet Vapor, they are a respected company from what I've been reading, so I highly doubt it is a quality issue. I plan to go to the store and get some glycerin soon and try to at least dilute my juice by about 10-15%, or 2-3 drops per 20. I think I will need to do it that way before I wind up accidentally fouling up a whole bottle.
     
  5. KissMint

    KissMint Super Member ECF Veteran

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    i would stop using it. Reaction to high pg would be my guess. I would just order more juice from FSUSA since it didn't give you problems + try more VG %. Here's a good post for VG suppliers in case you need it. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/vg-users-only/42419-suppliers-3.html
     
  6. KiTTy3000

    KiTTy3000 Full Member

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    When I make home-made herbal tinctures, for use with larger vaporizers and e-cigs, I use food grade vegetable glycerin found in health food shops. Simply put, PG in e-liquid is essentially an industrialized glycerol which is often made from animal and petroleum byproducts, it is considered safe for those without sensitivities, but some people have negative reactions where pg is concerned, and many of those people can safely turn to vegetable glycerin. I prefer vg for the more rich, and slightly sweeter vapor as well.

    If you find that diluting it to the ratio you have previously had success with doesn't help much, or at all, I would seriously recommend returning the product; at that point, it's much less likely that it's the pg causing your issue, it may be something else entirely and if that is the case there is no telling how it's effecting you.
     
  7. Vi7o

    Vi7o Full Member

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    Yeah, it can be an allergic reaction, just add some PV to the liquid and see if it works. On the other hand, it might be just a side effect of quitting the analogs (pain in the chest, coughing every morning, headache... - in the first 1-2 weeks).... or if you mix analogs with e-cig, but i'm not really sure about that.
     
  8. vivictus

    vivictus Super Member ECF Veteran

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    I still smoke 1-3 each evening, however my cough is nearly gone and only comes up occasionally, but is never a hacking cough anymore. I rarely cough anything up anymore either. So unless I could still be suffering from withdrawls from tobacco even though I have a couple still each day... I dunno. It's possible and would make sense. I am gonna go get some glycerin from CVS and try to dilute it a bit and see what happens.
     
  9. IrishGirl

    IrishGirl Full Member

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    Adding VG will cut the PG/VG ratio however as others have mentioned it will also cut the nicotene AND flavor as well. You might have better results buying the same formulation in 100% vg. Adding the 100% VG to the 80/20 solution in equal proportions would give you a solution of 40pg/60vg so you could alter that slightly with a little more than 50% of the 80/20 to roughly come out with a 50/50 solution and still have the full nicotene content and flavor content.

    If you add one part 80/20 to one part 0/100 you have 80/120 divided by 2 parts equals 40/60

    It may also be that something in the flavoring is causing the problem and has nothing to do with the pg/vg ratio. I have seem some complain of sore tongues and such only to have it dissappear when stopping that particular flavor. It seems that if you have a true reaction to pg it would occur even at a 50/50 ratio. I have also heard some do and some do not add water which can cause problems for some.
     
  10. WomanOfHeart

    WomanOfHeart Vaping Master ECF Veteran

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    I'm exactly the same! I can vape a 60PG/40VG, but nothing with more PG or I start sneezing and it makes my chest hurt. I had to figure this out the hard way when I started DIY juice. I use PG as my dilution and VG with nicotine. I tested a flavor without the nic and started sneezing and then my chest started to hurt. It got better a short time later, but I didn't make the correlation until I tested another batch and it happened again. Maybe I'm just weird, but anything 60PG or less and I'm fine.
     
  11. vivictus

    vivictus Super Member ECF Veteran

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    Well I added 20 drops into a carto, then 4 drops of VG into it, then shook it up well to mix it all together. I'm not sure what ratio that would make it to be honest, but it feels a little more of what I am used to when I was using 50/50.
     
  12. vivictus

    vivictus Super Member ECF Veteran

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    I have a math/chemist friend I just asked about this. This is what he said...

    "You just find out how many milliliters of the 80/20 you have and multiply that by the difference (80-20=60) to get how much of the pure vg to add (as a percentage) to bring up the new mix to a 50/50. So for example say you have 100 ml of the 80/20 mix and want a 50/50 mix. You just find out (80-20=60) 60% of the 80/20 volume, or 100 ml x 60% = 60 ml in this case, and add that much of the pure vg to get a final mix of 50/50."

    So if I converted this by using drops, I would add 60% more pure VG to whatever 80/20 liquid I am using. So if I drop 20 drops, I would have to add 12 more. A bit much for one carto, so if I drop 13 drops of 80/20, then I would add 7.8 drops of pure VG (8 rounded up obviously) to that that 50/50 mix.
     
  13. classwife

    classwife Ask The Vets Manager
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  14. dhewey

    dhewey Full Member

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    This is something I have also noticed.

    PG gives the "throat hit" that many people crave. I, on the other hand, found that TH caused me to cough, so I switched to a VG base e-liquid.

    The vegetable glycerine (VG) is the element that provides lots of vapor but without the throat hit. I understand that VG may also dull the flavor of e-liquid a bit, but hopefully a good company will up the flavor-content a bit more to compensate for this.
     
  15. Mazunga

    Mazunga Full Member

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    This thread inspired me to go get some VG from my local health food store (Starwest Botanicals 100% USP) and cut my really harsh, almost unvapable liquid. It worked perfectly!

    I had 24mg straight PG, now it's 50/50 and 12mg nicotine. So much happier. The flavor hasn't really diminished all that much for me to care, but now I can pleasantly inhale.
     
  16. vivictus

    vivictus Super Member ECF Veteran

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    Yeah, just adding a few drops into my carto seemed to help me out a bit. I will fill new ones with +60% VG to be more precise on my next carto that I fill up.
     
  17. vivictus

    vivictus Super Member ECF Veteran

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    Ok, well the nic drop from diluting so much was bugging me so I am just trying to deal with the 80/20 right now. I did notice something strange though... It wasn't until I went out and had an analog that shortly after my pain began to kick in a lot more. My sister commented that I have complained about my pain over the last couple days way more at night than during the day. I am thinking perhaps my lungs are used to being smoke free most of the time, and since I smoke 1-3 an evening since I "quit" that perhaps my lungs are used to being more cleaned out that used to still smoking at this point.

    Sorry if I am a little incoherent. I have hydrocodone prescribed for my pain if it comes up, but I never took it until tonight. but considering I am an alcoholic, I am afraid of the acetaminophen causing more liver/heart damage, so I did a cold water extraction on it tonight to separate the two, and wow. I am a little stoned right now from it, but it really is helping the pain without me worrying about the potential deadly effects of alcoholism and acetaminophen.

    anyway, just wanted to mention that I think I may be forced to completely quit analogs now because that may be what is causing my pain. I think I will look into an oxygen mask as well for a short term just to help maintain deep breaths. :)
     
  18. Wilvin

    Wilvin Senior Member ECF Veteran

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    I think I am the opposite of everyone I can vape 100% PG with no problems but when I vape a 50/50 or higher vg I start to feel odd. Not pain or coughing just an strange feeling. But for you I think you should stop vaping the higher pg juice or stop a few days then try again and if it starts up again then you will know that that is what the issue is. Another thing you could try is the next time you order for fsusa get a sample size of something with a 80/20 mix and see if the same thing happens with their juice. if it does then it is the pg, if you have no issues them maybe the Gourmet vapor batch might have been bad. I doubt that that is the case but it could not hurt to check.
     
  19. vivictus

    vivictus Super Member ECF Veteran

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    I don't think it's an issue from gourmet Vapor honestly. today I went back to using the 80/20 and haven't had any breathing troubles. Well, I should say breathing itself wasn't hard at all, but taking a deep breath cuz of the sharp shoulder pain was the issue. I also would notice (not trying to be gross here) that if I passed gas from either end of the body, the shoulder pain would let up a bit. I've always had gas issues and shoulder/chest pains because of it in the past but never as bad as the last few days and never lasting this long. So I think it's a combination of all of these things. But just to be safe int he future, I think I will go ahead and order less Pg based juices and just add extra flavoring if needed, and maybe drop down to 18mg nic possibly. The breathing difficulty I began with when I made this post initially was very similar to when I would smoke more than usual, so it's hard to really pinpoint what the exact issue is right now. Over the next few days I guess I will try and figure it out better. I don't want to dilute my juices so much that my nic level is dropping to 16% suddenly (which is what that formula does), and at the same time I don't want to take up smoking more analogs either, so I need to vape. It's rough, but I think I can hopefully get this figured out.

    Sorry if I ramble. Hydrocodone. ;)
     
  20. vivictus

    vivictus Super Member ECF Veteran

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    Wow, i just noticed something really strange...

    Ok, so when I began having my issue here it was the day after I got my new juice AND new carto's. Here's a rundown of what I was using beforehand...

    Before I had all juices from FSUSA and was using the Joye 510 cartos. I got a new batch of juice from Gourmet Vapor (GV) and have been using Boge Soft cap carto's with those.

    Now, I have been having to pull longer and harder with the Boge carto's with the new juice. So tonight I went back to my old Joye 510 carto's with juice from FSUSA, and the TH is back, the burning in the chest is much less and it's much more enjoyable.

    I was thinking that it couldn't possibly be the company I got the new juice from (Gourmet Vapor) but moving back to my old juice and carto's, it's just much better. The Joye 510 carto's are a PITA to clean and fill compared to the Boge ones, but they also seem to give MUCH more flavor, TH and Vapor. I hated them at first and loved the Boge's when they came in, but then I noticed tonight after one single cleaning (warm water flushed through and drying for a couple days) that the Boge carto was already clogged.

    I'm doubting that it would be the carto that causes my issue. but again, gourmet Vapor is a respected place to get juice from, but they were having a massive 50% off sale... So, could it be possible... and I am not trying to bad mouth here... That GV fouled up their juice in order to get their product out faster? Or perhaps the 80/20 I got over the 50/50 I started out with could be the culprit? Or is it the carto's?

    Either way I am now using my old Joye 510 carto with juice from FSUSA and it's doing just fine! could not letting juices steep be the cause of such issues perhaps? I ordered mostly popular flavors from FSUSA originally so thy didn't need to steep I am guessing, but from GV a lot of flavors are user made and I am guessing mixed to order as a result.

    Ah, so many questions with so little answers on such a thing, but I think I will just have to keep with a 50/50 and just order from FSUSA since I know for a fact I had no issues there. I may order from GV again in a 50/50, bit I seriously doubt the pain I have been having would have been caused simply by a ratio adjustment on pg/vg.

    And the GV juices NEED to steep I am guessing. I had several flavors from them that tasted like crap right away. their Atomic fireball is supposed to be very flavorful and even after shaking it up, it was just terrible and nothing like the candy. I got a hint of cinnamon and the rest tasted like... well, it's hard to say what... but chemicals of some sort.

    I am going to just continue using the rest of the juices I got from FSUSA and if over the next day or two I begin to lose this pain, I will contact GV about the issue and see what can be done. I normally don't like to cause any issues but if it seems to be their juice that has been causing me this pain, then I need to let them know about it.
     
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