Vaping is harmful?

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DPLongo22

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As do I, hell I have a gallon of 1000mg nic in the freezer.

I accept the risk gladly.

But, I also think we need to be honest with ourselves, not wear rose colored glasses, and be realistic about the risks. How many more CE4s are sitting out there?.

Absolutely, Mike. I never once confused this thing I do with quitting.

But I've seen the physical results, and they are unilaterally excellent (in my case). I've chosen to run with it, and am still happy that I did. If that changes, I will quit.

I hope not too soon though because I've got about four gallons... :blink:
 

DPLongo22

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You got me wrong, I hope that some of you will prove me wrong so I can stay with you guys because I really like the taste of vapor :)
But again, if there is (considering that I vape 10ml in 1-2 hours) much carcinogens, "layers" that lays down in lungs then I cannot keep vaping


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I worked a couple of bad air decades in Manhattan. Summer mornings smelled like things I've still yet to identify (it was back in the 80s & 90s).

Vaping isn't even close to whatever it was I breathed in, and I'm not even counting the dirty water dogs I ate.

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AkiN111

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AkiN11, I'm not sure if there is a language barrier or not, but I believe that you are taking "research" and "random comments or published items" and lumping them together. I also think you may be making your decisions based on research "outcomes" without really studying the research and how it was done. Studies showing that vaping at high temperatures MAY produce carcinogens are ongoing, and haven't been published, though there is a researcher who is a member of this forum who is doing this research hence the gigantic thread.

Lots of good came out of that thread, as far as more vapers using Temperature Control or making sure they do not overheat their vapor or chain vape often.

As far as RECENT research, you were given many published sites and papers to look at that show a reasonable reduction of risk for smoking over vaping. They were also not found on reddit and they were more recent than the ones concerning you.

If I smear peanut butter on my couch, it will ruin it (well, to be fair, my toddler did that). If I eat peanut butter it will nourish me.

You are mashing together (conflating really) anything negative you see about vaping and having a freakout. I would be having a freakout about going through 10 ml of juice in an hour. Either you are vaping too much, or you are chain-vaping due to reducing your TOBACCO intake. You may need a higher nicotine level, but "film" on "glass" that needs to be washed out happens when I drink chocolate milk. I do not make claims that chocolate milk contains poisons or carcinogens, or whatever else. I say that my thirst is QUENCHED and my glass needs to be RINSED OUT.

If you want to smoke, do so. If you want to vape, start posting questions about HOW not to go through 10 ml of E-Juice in an hour, and start learning about how to vape as safely as possible.

With all that said, I'm not trying to convince you of anything, but I do think you are having a freakout over the WRONG THINGS. The fact that ejuice is colored and will stick to glass as a liquid has nothing to do with e-juice vapor INSIDE the LUNGS.

That said, if you smoke a lot less than you vape, you MAY be better off smoking, if you are awake 12 hours and vape 10 ml per hour, that equals 120 ml, which is more than most people go through in a MONTH. Unless they are trick vapers or sub0hmers who are just going crayzee with it. Which is not necessary.

Best of luck with whatever you decide.

Anna

Thanks Anna and everyone, every one's opinion considered.


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AkiN111

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Since I've been tagged here (thanks, Bestie), I'll do a rapid drive by and ask you, @AkiN111, what do you think at this point? Have your questions been sufficiently answered?

I took your OP as you being serious, and questioning why one, believing vaping to cause harm, would continue to vape (rather than smoke).

As others have said, it's certainly your choice as to what you decide to do, but my sense is that you really DO wish to continue vaping, and you also want your fears allayed. I hope the info presented here has exactly that result. :)

My questions are well answered and I got sufficient information for which I need time to ingest it all in my head, however i would be happy to see any further discussion and information that will go on in this thread
 

SupplyDaddy

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Then of course there's the yellow staining stuff on white painted walls, your fingers, and your clothes from the tar being released when tobacco is burned. The same stuff you're inhaling into your lungs.

So glad you said "tar" and not nicotine! Drive me nuts every time I read "nicotine stains" when it's actually tar stains!
 

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I worked a couple of bad air decades in Manhattan. Summer mornings smelled like things I've still yet to identify (it was back in the 80s & 90s).

Vaping isn't even close to whatever it was I breathed in, and I'm not even counting the dirty water dogs I ate.

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I'm sure it compares well to Bourbon St in New Orleans or Dauphin St in Mobile at about 2:00 am on Ash Wednesday.

My questions are well answered and I got sufficient information for which I need time to ingest it all in my head, however i would be happy to see any further discussion and information that will go on in this thread

I think this thread has done quite well in dispelling any myths that (a) smoking and vaping are both activities that entail certain risks; (b) smoking entails far greater risk than vaping and (c) choosing to smoke rather than vape is probably a really stupid thing to do.
 
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DPLongo22

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I'm sure it compares well to Bourbon St in New Orleans or Dauphin St in Mobile at about 2:00 am on Ash Wednesday.

I must admit that my memories of those areas, always at those times, are - um - "fuzzy". :blush::party::headbang:
 

stols001

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AkiN11, I'm glad that you felt your questions were answered. Threads do disintegrate into fun times around here from time to time, but I'm glad you read the serious posts and took the time to consider them. I do understand fears about starting something new and potential health effects, and it's completely understandable. So, I'm glad you are going to take the time to read more, research, and think about things.

If you do choose vaping, seriously do come back and ask about juice consumption issues. I actually do want vaping to be safe for you, and vaping 10 ml per hour isn't the safest way to approach vaping (IMO) though it STILL may be safer than smoking.

I don't think the vaper's freakout is uncommon, I'm glad you stuck around and kept reading. I really do want vaping to work for you, in all seriousness, IF that ends up being what you choose.

Good luck pondering!

Anna
 

mikepetro

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Cross-posting here due to relevance:


An interesting read...

****************************************************************

Pulmonology > Smoking & Tobacco
Cancer Risk Low For Most, But Not All, E-Cigs in Modeling Study
Higher 'potency' tied to high levels of carbonyls


Emissions from most, but not all, electronic cigarettes were more than 100 times less carcinogenic than emissions from traditional combustible cigarettes, according to a British study.

Most of the e-cigarettes tested had cancer causing potencies falling within two orders of magnitude of a medicinal nicotine inhaler devices, but a "small minority" had much higher potencies, wrote William E. Stephens, PhD, of the University of St. Andrews in Fife, Scotland.

But "high-risk results tend to be associated with high levels of carbonyls generated when excessive power is delivered to the atomiser coil," he wrote in Tobacco Control.

Stephens modeled the cancer potencies of a range of e-cigarettes and other nicotine-delivering aerosols using published chemical analyses of emissions and their associated inhalation unit risks.

Potencies were compared using a conversion procedure for expressing smoke and e-cigarette vapors in common units, and lifetime cancer risks were calculated associated with various potencies using daily cancer consumption estimates.

"Many electronic e-cigarette emissions have cancer potencies within an order of magnitude of a nicotine inhaler, a product generally regarded as safe," Stephens wrote. "Notwithstanding, some e-cigarette emissions tended towards much higher cancer potencies and risks, a few possibly approaching those of tobacco smoke."

Based on the analysis, he concluded that the cancer potency of formaldehyde, which is the most significant e-cigarette carcinogen, may exceed that of tobacco smoke in some products, especially at the highest power settings.

The range of cancer potencies identified in the study spanned four orders of magnitude, with "the vast majority of potencies being much lower than combustible cigarettes," Stephens noted.

"It is likely that third/fourth generation e-cigarette devices with adjustable coil power are implicated in these higher risks," he wrote, adding that with regard to involuntary exposure to e-cigarette emissions, "greater understanding of potential effects of secondhand e-cigarette exposure is needed to determine if their use in indoor public spaces should be banned, as is currently the case in 25 countries."

In a telephone interview with MedPage Today, Stanton Glantz, PhD, of the University of California San Francisco Center for Tobacco Control and Research Education, called the study well done, adding that it adds to the already-convincing literature showing e-cigarettes to be associated with much lower carcinogenic exposures than combustible cigarettes.

"To me, it's sort of beating a dead horse," he said. "The fact is, I don't know anyone who thinks that e-cigarettes don't deliver carcinogens at a much lower level than conventional cigarettes. They don't have combustion and the combustion process generates a lot of carcinogens."

But he added that the jury is still out on other potential risks of e-cigarettes, and other vaporized nicotine delivery, for non-malignancy related diseases associated with smoking, including heart disease, non-cancer lung disease, and diabetes.

He said the early research suggests that e-cigarette use, like traditional smoking, may be a major risk factor for these diseases, which are linked to more smoking-related deaths than cancer.

Study limitations included the use of emissions data, which can both overestimate and underestimate risk, and the inclusion of only carcinogens formally classified by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) in the analysis.

Carcinogenicity of secondhand vapor was also not specifically addressed in the study.

Stephens disclosed no relevant relationships with industry.
 

DPLongo22

aka "The Sesquipedalian"
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Cross-posting here due to relevance:


An interesting read...

****************************************************************

Pulmonology > Smoking & Tobacco
Cancer Risk Low For Most, But Not All, E-Cigs in Modeling Study
Higher 'potency' tied to high levels of carbonyls


Emissions from most, but not all, electronic cigarettes were more than 100 times less carcinogenic than emissions from traditional combustible cigarettes, according to a British study.

Most of the e-cigarettes tested had cancer causing potencies falling within two orders of magnitude of a medicinal nicotine inhaler devices, but a "small minority" had much higher potencies, wrote William E. Stephens, PhD, of the University of St. Andrews in Fife, Scotland.

But "high-risk results tend to be associated with high levels of carbonyls generated when excessive power is delivered to the atomiser coil," he wrote in Tobacco Control.

Stephens modeled the cancer potencies of a range of e-cigarettes and other nicotine-delivering aerosols using published chemical analyses of emissions and their associated inhalation unit risks.

Potencies were compared using a conversion procedure for expressing smoke and e-cigarette vapors in common units, and lifetime cancer risks were calculated associated with various potencies using daily cancer consumption estimates.

"Many electronic e-cigarette emissions have cancer potencies within an order of magnitude of a nicotine inhaler, a product generally regarded as safe," Stephens wrote. "Notwithstanding, some e-cigarette emissions tended towards much higher cancer potencies and risks, a few possibly approaching those of tobacco smoke."

Based on the analysis, he concluded that the cancer potency of formaldehyde, which is the most significant e-cigarette carcinogen, may exceed that of tobacco smoke in some products, especially at the highest power settings.

The range of cancer potencies identified in the study spanned four orders of magnitude, with "the vast majority of potencies being much lower than combustible cigarettes," Stephens noted.

"It is likely that third/fourth generation e-cigarette devices with adjustable coil power are implicated in these higher risks," he wrote, adding that with regard to involuntary exposure to e-cigarette emissions, "greater understanding of potential effects of secondhand e-cigarette exposure is needed to determine if their use in indoor public spaces should be banned, as is currently the case in 25 countries."

In a telephone interview with MedPage Today, Stanton Glantz, PhD, of the University of California San Francisco Center for Tobacco Control and Research Education, called the study well done, adding that it adds to the already-convincing literature showing e-cigarettes to be associated with much lower carcinogenic exposures than combustible cigarettes.

"To me, it's sort of beating a dead horse," he said. "The fact is, I don't know anyone who thinks that e-cigarettes don't deliver carcinogens at a much lower level than conventional cigarettes. They don't have combustion and the combustion process generates a lot of carcinogens."

But he added that the jury is still out on other potential risks of e-cigarettes, and other vaporized nicotine delivery, for non-malignancy related diseases associated with smoking, including heart disease, non-cancer lung disease, and diabetes.

He said the early research suggests that e-cigarette use, like traditional smoking, may be a major risk factor for these diseases, which are linked to more smoking-related deaths than cancer.

Study limitations included the use of emissions data, which can both overestimate and underestimate risk, and the inclusion of only carcinogens formally classified by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) in the analysis.

Carcinogenicity of secondhand vapor was also not specifically addressed in the study.

Stephens disclosed no relevant relationships with industry.

Every single time that I read one of these (now too common) reports, I feel like I'm watching Father Sarducci do his weather forecast. Something along the lines of:

"Maybe is'sa gonna rain, maybe is'sa gonna be sunny. It depends'a on'a the weather."
 

Coastal Cowboy

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Gantz simply won't let go, will he?

 
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mikepetro

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Every single time that I read one of these (now too common) reports, I feel like I'm watching Father Sarducci do his weather forecast. Something along the lines of:

"Maybe is'sa gonna rain, maybe is'sa gonna be sunny. It depends'a on'a the weather."
Or maybe...

 
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