Stainless Steel Sadness

[Caterpiller]

My usual vape is:
A1K, Dual Coil, 5 wraps, 24g @ 0.18ohms

I take 1 second draws at 52watts and it's perfect for me.

Then I read this:
New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

So today's vape had been:
SS316L, Dual Coil, 5wraps, @ 0.09ohms

1 second draw at 52watts, 410F - it's insipid.

5 second draw at 52watts, 430F - it's a vape, but thin and unsatisfactory. Similar to a 25watt A1K setup.

It's pointless turning the temperature up as 430F is already above the safe zone for Max VG which is what I'm vaping, so I can choose to get used to this thinner vape, or I can ignore the warnings and vape happily with A1K.

I'm truly torn between the two. I really wanted to enjoy SS316L, but can't honestly say I do.

Just wondering if anyone can suggest a SS316L build that will produce more vapor?

 

[Eskie]

What mod are you using for temp control?

 

[Bunnykiller]

you need to pretty much burn the juice to create the carcinogens... and you will know when you burn the juice...

 

[Bunnykiller]

be careful when reading the graphs... they are in C not F... can be very misleading.

 

[APathos]

I would suggest that it's not the ss316l. Run your ss build at 52 Watts (no TC). Should be about the same power/heat wise. A1 SS316l. It's that your using TC, so it is limiting the Watts, only using the level needed to maintain the temp. It would be the same if you could run your Kanthal in tc. I enjoy a single 24g/36g fused clapton, 3id, 5 wrap in tc, and a dual 28g/36g fused clapton, 3id, 6.5 wrap in tc. Just try increasing the wire mass/surface area - bigger id, more wraps/wire.

 

[Marc411]

I'm using a single coil 316L 4 wraps spaced, 24ga at 22Ω - 34W and 451° and it's a damn fine vape.

Bump up your temp a bit and see how it vapes. I still get a warm vape but nothing to hot to burn the liquid.

 

[Wheelin247]

I use a lipo mod and I use high voltage in turn is high wattage. I use 18g & 20g SS and vape at 300-400 wattage and get super thick clouds and huge flavor. I'm not coming close to burning the juice and I vape DIY juice at 80 VG. I'm only taking 1/2 sec to 1 sec pulls and get the huge flavor and thick dense clouds.

I would say bump up your wattage a bit until it's a comfortable and enjoyable vape for you.


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[SteveS45]

Sounds to me like the threads about bad things from temperatures has ruined the OP's vaping experience but that is just my opinion.

 

[Caterpiller]

What mod are you using for temp control?

Hi @Eskie I'm using a DNA200

The temp control with SS316L appears completely stable. I have no issue that the technology is working well, just that by limiting this build to 430F it produces a week vape.

 

[kbeam418]

View attachment 676023 View attachment 676021 My usual vape is:
A1K, Dual Coil, 5 wraps, 24g @ 0.18ohms

I take 1 second draws at 52watts and it's perfect for me.

Then I read this:
New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

So today's vape had been:
SS316L, Dual Coil, 5wraps, @ 0.09ohms

1 second draw at 52watts, 410F - it's insipid.

5 second draw at 52watts, 430F - it's a vape, but thin and unsatisfactory. Similar to a 25watt A1K setup.

It's pointless turning the temperature up as 430F is already above the safe zone for Max VG which is what I'm vaping, so I can choose to get used to this thinner vape, or I can ignore the warnings and vape happily with A1K.

I'm truly torn between the two. I really wanted to enjoy SS316L, but can't honestly say I do.

Just wondering if anyone can suggest a SS316L build that will produce more vapor?

Bad things start happening around 470-480 F according to the first post on that thread. I usually run my dl builds at 450-470 for direct lung and it's a hot vape, around 85 watts on my velcoity build that has 10 wrap 26 gauge ss dual coils in it. You can taste when those bad chemicals are being released. That temperature isn't an exact science fyi.

 

[Caterpiller]

you need to pretty much burn the juice to create the carcinogens... and you will know when you burn the juice...

be careful when reading the graphs... they are in C not F... can be very misleading.

Hi @Bunnykiller - I appreciate that the graphs are in C, but if I'm reading them correctly they claim that harmful substances will be produced when heating VG above 420F.

My juice is 92% VG.

I'm not burning the juice, have good airflow, and never get a dry hit. So before I read this report had no concerns with my A1K build.

But the report states that above 420F toxins will be produced.

 

[Caterpiller]

I'm using a single coil 316L 4 wraps spaced, 24ga at 22Ω - 34W and 451° and it's a damn fine vape.

Bump up your temp a bit and see how it vapes. I still get a warm vape but nothing to hot to burn the liquid.

I use a lipo mod and I use high voltage in turn is high wattage. I use 18g & 20g SS and vape at 300-400 wattage and get super thick clouds and huge flavor. I'm not coming close to burning the juice and I vape DIY juice at 80 VG. I'm only taking 1/2 sec to 1 sec pulls and get the huge flavor and thick dense clouds.

I would say bump up your wattage a bit until it's a comfortable and enjoyable vape for you.


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I appreciate that I could simply turn up the TC to 450F to 500F, but what's the point of setting the TC well above the point where VG produced toxins.

 

[Mowgli]

dual SS430 24ga 3.5mm @ .13Ω + rayon in my Aromamizers @ 408/42W is a good vape
It's good on DNA200 and a little better on SX350j
I was vaping 69W for about a year or so but got used to 40W-50W within a few days of using it. My SS430 build @ 408/42W matches 42-45W depending on how fresh it is (gunky juice).

ditch the 316 and try your SS430 again

 

[Wheelin247]

I appreciate that I could simply turn up the TC to 450F to 500F, but what's the point of setting the TC well above the point where VG produced toxins.

I'm not saying turn up the temp, turn up the wattage.

I don't know how if any toxins are in something made from palm oil, soy oil or coconut oil. You eat foods everyday that have VG in it and your not dead from taking in the full VG.


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[Caterpiller]

I'm not saying turn up the temp, turn up the wattage.

I don't know how if any toxins are in something made from palm oil, soy oil or coconut oil. You eat foods everyday that have VG in it and your not dead from taking in the full VG.


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@Wheelin247 - turning up the watts on my SS316L build will have no effect as the TC is already kicking in at my current wattage setting and limiting the power set to the coil.

I'd like to beleive that my A1K build at 52watts, which I know to have good airflow and wick saturisation, is not producing carcinogenic compounds in my vape, but the above mentioned report states clearly that their tests show VG to produce carcinogens at 215c (around 420F).

When my SS316L Build, which has a very similar coil mass, his TC set at 430F and greatly reduces the power to around 25-35 watts, I can only assume my A1K build is greatly exceeding 430F.

Sorry but your point regarding the safe oral consumption of VG is irrelevant in this context.

I'm not stating that the above scientific report is correct, only that it had caused me some concern.

 

[Caterpiller]

dual SS430 24ga 3.5mm @ .13Ω + rayon in my Aromamizers @ 408/42W is a good vape
It's good on DNA200 and a little better on SX350j
I was vaping 69W for about a year or so but got used to 40W-50W within a few days of using it. My SS430 build @ 408/42W matches 42-45W depending on how fresh it is (gunky juice).

ditch the 316 and try your SS430 again

@Mowgli - I'll try SS430 when I can find some.

I thought about increasing the coil mass with the SS316L, but this means more wraps, which creates problems with minimum Ohms and also coil placement within airflow.

 

[APathos]

@Mowgli - I'll try SS430 when I can find some.

I thought about increasing the coil mass with the SS316L, but this means more wraps, which creates problems with minimum Ohms and also coil placement within airflow.

Yeah, your images looked like there wasn't much more play for a larger spaced coil. Maybe a little? Not sure about the Ohms thing though as the dna would still give you a max 200 Watt from 0.05 to 0.2 ish (and you don't seem to need up there anyway). If your happy with the temp at 420F ish, I would just say you need to increase the vapor production (surface area/wire mass) though. Dual 8 wraps would only bring you up to 0.15 - or 0.17 on a 2.5 id.

 

[Mowgli]

Oops, I read your OP wrong and thought you used to use SS430.
Mine's from zivipf.com. It tests spot on at TCR .00138

 

[Eskie]

Hi @Eskie I'm using a DNA200

The temp control with SS316L appears completely stable. I have no issue that the technology is working well, just that by limiting this build to 430F it produces a week vape.

With a DNA, there are a few things you can do. Probably the most important is to open Device Monitor and see what's happening in real time with your wattage, temperature, and resistance. Second, based on the data in that study, while there are teeny amounts produced at the 440-450 F temps, the point of inflection that it really takes off at is 275 C, or ~520 F. Most of my vaping is done at 450 F or a bit lower. Play around with what your see in device monitor, and grab some screenshots if it's not adding up right to you and post them for us to see.

Also check you're using the correct TFR for the metal you're using. You can also download new TFR's from Steam Engine and use those if the defaults aren't doing what you want.

Check out the DNA threads for the 200 series boards in he temp control section, also a great spot for feedback particular to the board.

 

[Caterpiller]

Following advise given here I tried increasing the coil mass.

I went with SS316L, 10 wraps (barely spaced), 2mm ID, 24g, 420F.

The extra mass really helped. In fact I'm having trouble getting it up to temp.

I ended up putting the power up to 160 watts, but with TC it's not getting anywhere near this.

With some three second draws I'm getting some significant vapor, and feeling like I'm making progress.

I need to put the mod on escribe tomorrow when I get to the office and adjust my profile settings.

I think I need to put more power into the pre-heat and turn the pre-heat rate right up.

I'll let you know how I get on.