Vaping vs Smoking

[YoursTruli]

O.K. I guess I will just go back to my corner and lurk like usually do. Just thought I could add to this discussion. Guess not.

You should keep participating

Isn't the premise of this article that the immune suppression caused by vaping, which appears to be greater than that of smoking, could lead to more sickness among vapers? Am I not understanding something?

OK my typing is not the best today, bad hands day for me today so, I will try to explain this but it will take me a moment.

 

[skoony]

Moved to Media and General News as the General e-liquid section is the wrong place for this

Thanks for the explanation. For a minute there i thought I was having
an episode.

Mike

 

[Robino1]

Thanks for the explanation. For a minute there i thought I was having
an episode.

Mike

Did I move you too fast??

 

[Mazinny]

Well, that's good news.



I'd really like to know if you are in a minority. I did thread on this, and it had maybe 12 people respond. 9 were reporting far less colds than before, 3 were reporting 'about the same.' Since doing that thread, I feel like I've read about 12 other people reporting far less colds than before. But that leaves around 9 million plus people that haven't chimed in on this.

I do think if vaping is producing far less colds by its users that it is really really huge news, and plausibly relates to this topic. Whether getting far less colds is a benefit in the long run or not is in the category of uncertainty. But, in the short term, I do think anecdotal evidence will far outweigh supposition by scientific types/media personnel who are otherwise anti-vaping.

I think it would have to be really really bad thing that happens in the long term for it to lead to mass avoidance. It's not like life long medications aren't going to take a toll and catch up to someone over the long (and short) term. If person vapes from age 20 to 70, and has 1 to 20 chance of something horrible happening because of not getting any colds during that time frame, I think there will still be many who think that is a great tradeoff, especially when put into perspective of how the use of other life long habitually substances (i.e. food, medication) will take a toll on your system.

That would be interesting, but we must be aware of self-reporting biases.

 

[schatz]

You should keep participating



OK my typing is not the best today, bad hands day for me today so, I will try to explain this but it will take me a moment.

I will, as much as I can, but my typeing skills are not very good. At least not to post what I am really thinking in depth like others here. Enjoy lurking though for the most part, very educational. And I wasnt really offended or anything.I hear what your saying Mazinny.

 

[DC2]

Many of us get defensive when someone questions our addiction. You are no exception....

And many of us get defensive when someone tries to take away our freedom of choice.
But throwing out the "addiction" card is always a nice move for those standing against us.
The public eats that garbage for breakfast.

 

[DC2]

Many people probably think of "ANTZ" as evil villains who sit around plotting how to eliminate vaping and tobacco, and some of them probably are. I would like to think though, that at least in the beginning, some of it started from a genuine concern over people's health.

Your right, and you're wrong...
Rampant Antismoking Signifies Grave Danger

The foot soldiers in the Do-Gooder army probably have decent intentions.
But the generals are bought and paid for.

 

[YoursTruli]

LOL I typed a bunch of medical explanation stuff with some links and when I read it unless someone has an intimate knowledge of how the immune system works and responds it is just garble, so I thought better of it.

 

[Nimaz]

O.K. I guess I will just go back to my corner and lurk like usually do. Just thought I could add to this discussion. Guess not.

Lol, of course you add to the discussion. Pls, come back out... I had the same impression from another thread that many who stopped smoking and vape reported to be less susceptible to common winter cold. I actually proposed a fictive study called "Comparative susceptibility to common cold between the vaping and non-vaping populations". And now I wanna put it this way "Decrease susceptibility to common cold in the vaping population: characterization of the anti-microbial activities of polypropylene glycol vapor" or something like that... Then write a fake abstract on a study that I never did, sign it Dr. B.S. , and submit it to the next AAAS meeting. Of course I'm kidding...

Actually, PG has proven anti-bacterial and anti-fungal activities but no anti-viral activity reported (see THE BACTERICIDAL ACTION OF PROPYLENE GLYCOL VAPOR ON MICROORGANISMS SUSPENDED IN AIR. I, old (1942) but published in an excellent journal, all about PG vapor). Also it's broadly used in many vaccines formulation... Smoking cessation also restore cilia which may help to clear out pathogens from the airways (many people who stop smoking got flu-like symptoms for a while though). I speculate that any "immuno-active" chemicals are not stuck in the tar no-more and eliminated more efficiently. So yes, vaping and non-smoking may help somehow, maybe not by boosting the immune system but who knows, really. As for myself, my occasional colds get cleared much faster.

 

[pennysmalls]

I'll fund your study Nimaz! Oh wait, but then you'd get slammed for conflict of interest. We'll have to do a Go Fund Me.

 

[Lessifer]

LOL I typed a bunch of medical explanation stuff with some links and when I read it unless someone has an intimate knowledge of how the immune system works and responds it is just garble, so I thought better of it.

I do know that there are multiple systems that are interrelated, and I don't doubt what you were saying. This particular article though is implying, whether or not the research says this, that vaping can lead to people become more sick than if they were smoking, because of the immune suppressing effects of vapor as opposed to smoke.

 

[Nimaz]

I'll fund your study Nimaz! Oh wait, but then you'd get slammed for conflict of interest. We'll have to do a Go Fund Me.

Lol... Thank you, much appreciated! We can just find someone else that fund the 2 of us and we can just collaborate... And as long as we claim our conflict of interest at the end, we'll be just fine (we'll just hope that no one will read it) .

 

[YoursTruli]

I do know that there are multiple systems that are interrelated, and I don't doubt what you were saying. This particular article though is implying, whether or not the research says this, that vaping can lead to people become more sick than if they were smoking, because of the immune suppressing effects of vapor as opposed to smoke.

Can and will are certainly two different matters and I am sure it will differ greatly from person to person based on their overall health and immune system well being. I would disagree with this study conclusion as an absolute but they are not saying that and they never will.
As someone with a greatly compromised immune system on immunosupressant medication, and also uses nicotine, who has been sick (with a flu-like) once in the past 3 years, I can say having a compromised immune system does not automatically equate to getting sick a lot, but, the potential for me to is technically higher risk.

 

[Lessifer]

Can and will are certainly two different matters and I am sure it will differ greatly from person to person based on their overall health and immune system well being. I would disagree with this study conclusion as an absolute but they are not saying that and they never will.
As someone with a greatly compromised immune system on immunosupressant medication, and also uses nicotine, who has been sick (with a flu-like) once in the past 3 years, I can say having a compromised immune system does not automatically equate to getting sick a lot, but, the potential for me to is technically higher risk.

They aren't saying it, but they certainly do imply it, and the articles written about the presentation definitely amplify that implication.

 

[Lessifer]

Can and will are certainly two different matters and I am sure it will differ greatly from person to person based on their overall health and immune system well being. I would disagree with this study conclusion as an absolute but they are not saying that and they never will.
As someone with a greatly compromised immune system on immunosupressant medication, and also uses nicotine, who has been sick (with a flu-like) once in the past 3 years, I can say having a compromised immune system does not automatically equate to getting sick a lot, but, the potential for me to is technically higher risk.

I have no issues with the area of study, I think it's actually a rather interesting question and one that deserves investigation. My issue is only with the presentation of what has been disclosed.

 

[skoony]

That would be interesting, but we must be aware of self-reporting biases.

we also must be aware of antidotal discrimination. you're not learned,you don't know.

LOL I typed a bunch of medical explanation stuff with some links and when I read it unless someone has an intimate knowledge of how the immune system works and responds it is just garble, so I thought better of it.

You have the same understanding of how it works as any of us.
Separating the wheat from the chaff is a different story.

Can and will are certainly two different matters and I am sure it will differ greatly from person to person based on their overall health and immune system well being. I would disagree with this study conclusion as an absolute but they are not saying that and they never will.
As someone with a greatly compromised immune system on immunosupressant medication, and also uses nicotine, who has been sick (with a flu-like) once in the past 3 years, I can say having a compromised immune system does not automatically equate to getting sick a lot, but, the potential for me to is technically higher risk.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. My gripe is not with people that for some reason will and do
have issues. My gripe is transferring these same issues into the otherwise healthy portion
of the population that do not nor will ever have these issues.

Regards
Mike

 

[Exchaner]

Don't feed the troll folks.
Either they are a weak minded individual, or they have fun arguing silly points.
Doesn't matter which, don't feed them.

To repeat my definition of a weak mind:
Someone who resorts to name calling when they have no better argument, i.e. when they are cornered intellectually. Nuf said.

 

[schatz]

Lol, of course you add to the discussion. Pls, come back out... I had the same impression from another thread that many who stopped smoking and vape reported to be less susceptible to common winter cold. I actually proposed a fictive study called "Comparative susceptibility to common cold between the vaping and non-vaping populations". And now I wanna put it this way "Decrease susceptibility to common cold in the vaping population: characterization of the anti-microbial activities of polypropylene glycol vapor" or something like that... Then write a fake abstract on a study that I never did, sign it Dr. B.S. , and submit it to the next AAAS meeting. Of course I'm kidding...

Actually, PG has proven anti-bacterial and anti-fungal activities but no anti-viral activity reported (see THE BACTERICIDAL ACTION OF PROPYLENE GLYCOL VAPOR ON MICROORGANISMS SUSPENDED IN AIR. I, old (1942) but published in an excellent journal, all about PG vapor). Also it's broadly used in many vaccines formulation... Smoking cessation also restore cilia which may help to clear out pathogens from the airways (many people who stop smoking got flu-like symptoms for a while though). I speculate that any "immuno-active" chemicals are not stuck in the tar no-more and eliminated more efficiently. So yes, vaping and non-smoking may help somehow, maybe not by boosting the immune system but who knows, really. As for myself, my occasional colds get cleared much faster.

I also forgot to mention that my wife, who has not smoked in 20 years,she was able to quit when we had our first child, also never has had a cold or flu in a couplke years. I keep telling her its because of all the PG me and my daughter are exhaleing. Now my mother in law, who lives alone and rarely goes out of house, gets sick with a different cold,stomach virus bronchitis you name it, every couple weeks. We even started writing it down onthe calendar to show to her. She keeps saying she never gets sick.She is 70 so I guess its expected, but she was a school teacher in elementary all her working life and you think her body would have built up immune to many of these things by now.Also I wil mention that she quit smoking 5 years ago, and I think that might be leading to her mental decline also, cant prove it but is really been getting bad. Also Nimaz I am in for the study.

 

[Nimaz]

I also forgot to mention that my wife, who has not smoked in 20 years,she was able to quit when we had our first child, also never has had a cold or flu in a couplke years. I keep telling her its because of all the PG me and my daughter are exhaleing. Now my mother in law, who lives alone and rarely goes out of house, gets sick with a different cold,stomach virus bronchitis you name it, every couple weeks. We even started writing it down onthe calendar to show to her. She keeps saying she never gets sick.She is 70 so I guess its expected, but she was a school teacher in elementary all her working life and you think her body would have built up immune to many of these things by now.Also I wil mention that she quit smoking 5 years ago, and I think that might be leading to her mental decline also, cant prove it but is really been getting bad. Also Nimaz I am in for the study.

You're making an interesting point. I seem to remember reading that PG is used in hospital ventilation for it's anti-germicidal properties... The immune system is a pretty intelligent thing, the most complex after the nervous system i believe. I know for instance that my parents, and older brother and sisters never get sick (~15 years older than me), but they had pretty hard lives with war and misery they didn't have access to conventional medicine. Because the immune system builds a memory response to pathogens (vaccine principle), I theorized that they developed a board immunity to common pathogens. But maybe they just never complain about sickness. Our brain gets tired when we age, some develop some sicknesses like Parkinson (my mum), Alzheimer (my father in-law), memory lost... that's the aging process, getting brain activity like a kind of daily workout keeps us sharp too i guess. I didn't search much in your hypothesis but look at Cotinine, a neuroactive metabolite of nicotine: potential for treating disorders of impaired cognition. - PubMed - NCBI
There is probably more out there... actually, it's a pretty interesting reading...

 

[Exchaner]

And many of us get defensive when someone tries to take away our freedom of choice.
But throwing out the "addiction" card is always a nice move for those standing against us.
The public eats that garbage for breakfast.

Your freedoms do not include denying facts, creating distortions or otherwise dismissing any viewpoint that doesn't match yours. If you do not think you are addicted, try and stop your vaping for a couple of days - at will - and let us know how it goes. I for one am skeptical - even though in some cases addiction is curable. Not many of us could pull that stunt very easily. AND BTW, for all I know, some of the people spreading misinformation on these forums may not even be vapers ....