Vaping vs Smoking

[schatz]

You're making an interesting point. I seem to remember reading that PG is used in hospital ventilation for it's anti-germicidal properties... The immune system is a pretty intelligent thing, the most complex after the nervous system i believe. I know for instance that my parents, and older brother and sisters never get sick (~15 years older than me), but they had pretty hard lives with war and misery they didn't have access to conventional medicine. Because the immune system builds a memory response to pathogens (vaccine principle), I theorized that they developed a board immunity to common pathogens. But maybe they just never complain about sickness. Our brain gets tired when we age, some develop some sicknesses like Parkinson (my mum), Alzheimer (my father in-law), memory lost... that's the aging process, getting brain activity like a kind of daily workout keeps us sharp too i guess. I didn't search much in your hypothesis but look at Cotinine, a neuroactive metabolite of nicotine: potential for treating disorders of impaired cognition. - PubMed - NCBI
There is probably more out there... actually, it's a pretty interesting reading...

I am starting to wonder if her(cognitive decline is from qiutting her nicotine. It is just really amazing how fast after quitting smoking cold turkey that she has declined. Then again,my mother quit smoking 20 years ago and is sharp as a tack. Maybe quitting nicotine later in life not so good? I know its not very scientific of a hypotheseis but interesting.

 

[Kent C]

I am starting to wonder if her(cognitive decline is from qiutting her nicotine. It is just really amazing how fast after quitting smoking cold turkey that she has declined. Then again,my mother quit smoking 20 years ago and is sharp as a tack. Maybe quitting nicotine later in life not so good? I know its not very scientific of a hypotheseis but interesting.

I had two aunts, an older friend and a friend's mom, where I'm convinced the lack of nicotine after quitting was a factor of the rapid deterioration.

 

[Nimaz]

I am starting to wonder if her(cognitive decline is from qiutting her nicotine. It is just really amazing how fast after quitting smoking cold turkey that she has declined. Then again,my mother quit smoking 20 years ago and is sharp as a tack. Maybe quitting nicotine later in life not so good? I know its not very scientific of a hypotheseis but interesting.

There is an age aspect to consider, and as you suggested, when our brain use to function with an ever-present neuroactive chemicals like nicotine and its metabolites, their absence may impair cognition... The paper link that I posted above may give you some clues... Can she vape nicotine juices? I'm not going to suggest some experimental trial but you may have something to consider with her doc eventually... I just talked to my mum 83 on the phone, that's hard man...

 

[DC2]

Your freedoms do not include denying facts, creating distortions or otherwise dismissing any viewpoint that doesn't match yours. If you do not think you are addicted, try and stop your vaping for a couple of days - at will - and let us know how it goes. I for one am skeptical even though in most cases there might be a cure for addiction. Not many of us could pull that stunt very easily. AND BTW, for all I know, some of the people spreading misinformation on these forums may not even be vapers ....

You're talking to a person who has been vaping zero nicotine liquid for the last three weeks.

But I don't expect to change your mind, let alone get you to open it.
You clearly have no intention of doing so, or even trying.

 

[schatz]

There is an age aspect to consider, and as you suggested, when our brain use to function with an ever-present neuroactive chemicals like nicotine and its metabolites, their absence may impair cognition... The paper link that I posted above may give you some clues... Can she vape nicotine juices? I'm not going to suggest some experimental trial but you may have something to consider with her doc eventually... I just talked to my mum 83 on the phone, that's hard man...

No vaping for her, unfortunately she is in the camp of nicotine is evil category. I wish I could help her but she wont listen. People in my circle are either non smokers or very stubborn and have only managed to convert one friend in 4 years.

 

[schatz]

There is an age aspect to consider, and as you suggested, when our brain use to function with an ever-present neuroactive chemicals like nicotine and its metabolites, their absence may impair cognition... The paper link that I posted above may give you some clues... Can she vape nicotine juices? I'm not going to suggest some experimental trial but you may have something to consider with her doc eventually... I just talked to my mum 83 on the phone, that's hard man...

Oh and about her doctor, he really dosent care to investigate anything unless he can give her a pill for it, and she just loves him and will never change or get second opinion.Very sad.

 

[Exchaner]

But I don't expect to change your mind, let alone get you to open it.
You clearly have no intention of doing so, or even trying.

Perhaps I can open yours to consider other viewpoints than yours.

 

[Nimaz]

No vaping for her, unfortunately she is in the camp of nicotine is evil category. I wish I could help her but she wont listen. People in my circle are either non smokers or very stubborn and have only managed to convert one friend in 4 years.

I hear you... and I won't take the chance to drop some nic. in her coffee either to see if there is any differences... and some of these docs are even more stubborn. So what can you do..? I'm not even sure that logic has a chance. Good luck!

 

[DC2]

Perhaps I can open yours to consider other viewpoints than yours.

Like almost everyone else here, I have already been where you are at with respect to the common views of nicotine and addiction. After all I have seen and heard and read and experienced over the last six years, it is precisely because I was able to open my mind that I was able to come to a new conclusion.

 

[Exchaner]

Like almost everyone else here, I have already been where you are at with respect to the common views of nicotine and addiction. After all I have seen and heard and read and experienced over the last six years, it is precisely because I was able to open my mind that I was able to come to a new conclusion.

The length of time is immaterial; if that was the yard stick to go by, I have much more experience than you. I quit smoking for 9 years. And I didn't say addiction can not be cured. What you and I went through is a perfect example. But to deny addiction is like telling a fairy tale.

On a related subject, the mere fact that you decided on 0 mg is automatic acknowledgement that you might be better off without it (than with.)

 

[DC2]

On a related subject, the mere fact that you decided on 0 mg is automatic acknowledgement that you might be better off without it (than with.)

Okay, you seriously don't know what you're talking about.

Here is why I went to zero nicotine...
the kids ... they having too much fun with _the_ vaping.

And I'm not too pleased about it.

 

[DC2]

The length of time is immaterial; if that was the yard stick to go by, I have much more experience than you. I quit smoking for 9 years. And I didn't say addiction can not be cured. What you and I went through is a perfect example. But to deny addiction is like telling a fairy tale.

I'm going to leave you with these...

Growing List of Positive Effects of Nicotine Seen in Neurode... : Neurology Today

No withdrawal symptoms suggesting nicotine addiction have been reported either after 4–6 weeks of therapy in short-term studies, or after a period of up to 6 months in the only long-term study available.

Is Everything We Know About Nicotine Wrong?

One of the most respected researchers in the field, Dr. Paul Newhouse, Director of Vanderbilt University’s Center for Cognitive Medicine, argues that nicotine “seems very safe even in nonsmokers. In our studies we find it actually reduces blood pressure chronically. And there were no addiction or withdrawal problems, and nobody started smoking cigarettes. The risk of addiction to nicotine alone is virtually nil.” Tobacco has also been considered harmful because it is highly addictive, but whether nicotine has the same addictive potential remains unclear. According to Dr. Newhouse, “nicotine by itself isn’t very addictive at all… [it] seems to require assistance from other substances found in tobacco to get people hooked.”

 

[Exchaner]

Okay, you seriously don't know what you're talking about.

Here is why I went to zero nicotine...
the kids ... they having too much fun with _the_ vaping.

OK, so you did it for insurance purposes. But still, if I was looking for advice on addiction, you'd be the last person I would consult. There are plenty of scientist and medical experts to rely rather on than someone on one of these forums; someone who denies addiction even exists..... You are shooting from the hip my man.

 

[DC2]

OK, so you did it for insurance purposes. But still, if I was looking for advice on addiction, you'd be the last person I would consult. There are plenty of scientist and medical experts to rely rather on than someone on one of these forums; someone who denies addiction even exists..... You are shooting from the hip my man.

I think you missed my second post above.

And I certainly don't deny that addiction can and does exist.
What I'm saying is that nicotine by itself may not be all that addictive.

 

[Exchaner]

What I'm saying is that nicotine by itself may not be all that addictive.

Not to repeat myself, but if I were to rely on someone's advice on addiction - nicotine or otherwise - I'd rather depend on medical experts. The hand to mouth thing is only part of the story.

 

[Lessifer]

"Perhaps most surprising is that, in studies by Boyd and others, nicotine has not caused addiction or withdrawal when used to treat disease. These findings fly in the face of nicotine’s reputation as one of the most addictive substances known, but it’s a reputation built on myth. Tobacco may well be as addictive as ......, as some have claimed. But as scientists know, getting mice or other animals hooked on nicotine alone is dauntingly difficult. As a 2007 paper in the journal Neuropharmacology put it: “Tobacco use has one of the highest rates of addiction of any abused drug.” Paradoxically it’s almost impossible to get laboratory animals hooked on pure nicotine, though it has a mildly pleasant effect. "

Nicotine, the Wonder Drug? | DiscoverMagazine.com

 

[Nimaz]

Perhaps I can open yours to consider other viewpoints than yours.

Here is my take on the issue. The idea is that genes expression are consistently modulated due to extracellular changes in the ever changing micro environment (temperature, pH, chemicals, infection, activity, rest, digestion, type of food etc...) but the expression rarely or even never goes in the same direction for all. Now, what do we have in our vape:
- PG and VG are immunologically inert (some folks can have sensitivity though). PG is used in vaccine formulation, so there is no chance that it can impair immunity or it would affect the vaccine efficacy. PG may also facilitate the immune system job in case of infection because it has known anti-germicidal activities.
- Nicotine is a proven anti-inflammatory substance. So, we can accept that it can decrease the expression of some "Immune genes" (whatever that means, 100 of thousands of genes fall in this category). Also, nicotine is used as an effective treatment for inflammatory conditions like Crohn's disease.
We only have left:
- Flavors and specifically cinnamon flavor in our case. Cinnamon is known to have anti-oxidants (polyphenols and proanthocyanidins), recommended in our diet it is believed to have beneficial effects on our immune system. Now to be through, various inflammatory conditions have been treated effectively with cinnamon for centuries by traditional medical practitioners. So in fact, because of the antioxidants, cinnamon has also anti-inflammatory activities so we may expect that this flavor may also decrease the expression of "Immune genes" (inflammation been the innate arm of our immune system).

I'm giving some material to nourish our thinking and re-consider our Vaping vs Smoking debate. I'm now thinking that altogether, these hypothetical results in addition to current scientific knowledge suggest that vaping with specific flavors like cinnamon, may actually be good for the immune system in some instances, because it contains anti-inflammatory compounds, like anti-oxidants.

Even though the abstract claim, supported by no available data, sounds a bit scary, it elaborates on a process that is consistently ongoing in every cells of our body: the modulation of gene expression, "immune genes" been drastically influenced by extracellular factors, in amount, time and duration. Therefore, it's nothing to be afraid off but to consider with knowledge and intelligence!

 

[Kent C]

I've been vaping for almost 7 years. Discounting sleep, I can go 3 to 4 hours without vaping. As a 3 pack a day former smoker, I could never go that long without a cigarette. My guess is that it's the WTA/MAOIs that is more addicting than nicotine in cigarettes. Some THR studies are starting to see this.

Dependence levels in users of electronic cigarettes, nicotine gums and tobacco cigarettes. - PubMed - NCBI
Development of a Questionnaire for Assessing Dependence on Electronic Cigarettes Among a Large Sample of Ex-Smoking E-cigarette Users
Is Nicotine Really All That Addictive? - E cigarette Reviewed

And it's the smoke/vapor that is more part of the habit than hand to mouth - not saying that isn't a factor, just that it's less than the vapor. If patches/gum created smoke or vapor, they may be more effective than the 1% effectiveness they now have long term.

 

[YoursTruli]

I seem to remember reading that PG is used in hospital ventilation for it's anti-germicidal properties...

This is vaping folklore...

 

[DC2]

Not to repeat myself, but if I were to rely on someone's advice on addiction - nicotine or otherwise - I'd rather depend on medical experts. The hand to mouth thing is only part of the story.

I still think you missed the post where I quoted the medical experts.
It's post #192 above.

Here's a link...
Vaping vs Smoking