WholeCig WTA discussion thread. All topics welcome!

Discussion in 'E Cigarette Suppliers Forum' started by jfresh, Jul 25, 2013.

  1. jfresh

    jfresh Registered Supplier ECF Veteran

    So, here it is!

    Let's talk WTA. If anyone has a question to kick it off that would be fine. Otherwise, kick back, enjoy your WTA and socialize. :toast:

    Right on.
  2. loxmythe

    loxmythe PIF owner/moderator Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Yay! I get to be the first post :banana:

    But I have absolutely nothing worthwhile to say right now :p
  3. FL Lori

    FL Lori Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Checking in here. :)
  4. jessermay

    jessermay Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    I'm here too!! Sucking on my unflavored a bunch today & loving it!
  5. jfresh

    jfresh Registered Supplier ECF Veteran


    Allow me to officially introduce ourselves. We are:

    Jeffery Miller aka jfresh- Managing Partner, Chief bottle washer, Founder
    Rick Saurmilch- Webmaster, Quality Control & Shipping, Partner
    Dave Cantor- Business to Business, Logistics, CFO, Partner
    Penny Harrison- Office Manager, Marketing
    Avery Luedtke PhD- R&D Chemistry Consultant

    Our offices and production facility are located at 3950 Holton St. in beautiful Milwaukee, Wisconsin

    Nice to meet you, officially!
  6. jfresh

    jfresh Registered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Oh, and feel free to let everybody know about us. We'd appreciate it at this point.

    We are making plenty. (I think, but a nice problem to have if we're not and easily solvable.)

  7. FL Lori

    FL Lori Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    You got it!
  8. jfresh

    jfresh Registered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Unlikely FAQ's #1

    Q: Do you listen to loud punk rock in your production facility?

    A: No. Unfortunately, our punk rock is played at a medium volume in consideration of neighboring businesses in the building. :laugh:

    Ball rolling real question many have is, "what is WTA?" so let's start there. WTA refers to a whole alkaloid extraction, from tobacco...but first, what is an alkaloid? That's a better starting point.

    Alkaloids are so named because of their alkaline nature, (a higher Ph) and are found in plants of all sorts, usually in a matrix of alkaloids, as is definitely so in the case of tobacco They are very often physiologically "active" in the brain, in one way or another. Caffeine is an alkaloid. So are the actives of many pharmaceuticals and street drugs.

    Nicotine is an alkaloid.

    It's the most prevalent alkaloid in tobacco by weight. It is one of over a dozen in tobacco, though, and that is the point of WTA. Just because something is more predominant in volume doesn't mean it's more significant or affecting than smaller volumes of something else. Or that they don't all work in concert in a synergistic fashion not fully understood. It's a rather short-sighted assumption IMO, to pin it all on nicotine. And it both stands to reason, and is tested in practice, of course :vapor: that the so-called primary alkaloid, nicotine, is neither primarily responsible for cigarette addiction, nor entirely capable of "replacing" a cigarette.

    That oughta get ya started. Experts and enthusiasts alike, please chime in!
  9. Angel Eyes

    Angel Eyes Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Pretty blue glass doesn't protect the WTA extract from UV light the way that dark brown glass does, this is why so many great beers are in amber/brown glass rather than blue!

    As far as the expense, I think people would gladly pay an extra $1 for a glass bottle, and in bulk you will be making money on the made in USA (not China) bottles as well!
  10. Angel Eyes

    Angel Eyes Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Does this mean we can get some Leon's frozen custard flavors to add to our WTA? :w00t:
  11. jfresh

    jfresh Registered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Duly noted.
  12. Angel Eyes

    Angel Eyes Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    It is possible to take Paypal?

    I know they have an exorbitant 5% fee for you, but customers who do heavy ebay volume would gladly pay a 5% surcharge to use Paypal

    PS - other countries that people would trust their glass bottles to be made in would be Japan, Korea, Germany, UK, France, Canada, Switzerland, Austria, Luxembourg, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Iceland, Belgium, Netherlands, Italy, Australia, New Zealand
  13. Mr.Mann

    Mr.Mann Visit the PIF Sub-Forum Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Paypal is out for most things ecig (at least officially), but generally, and especially, anything eliquid.

    I like the point you made on brown amber for long time storage. But considering they come in plastic right now, blue cobalt would be a huge step-up. Though, you're right that if JF can offer glass, he may as offer it in the most protective environment possible.
  14. Angel Eyes

    Angel Eyes Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Because WTA juices undergo some extreme chemical processes to extract the WTA's, it is important to realize that for health conscious vapers, GC-MS testing is especially critical in your product more so than typical e-juice that is simply flavoring/PG/VG/nicotine - people who have any scientific background would naturally have a concern about residuals.

    Therefore, it would be well worth the investment to get an independent GC-MS analysis done and post it on the website, an analogy would be that, these days, not so many people will buy a car without seeing the CARFAX or similar first. People have become wary of everything these days, and the scaredy-cats are a huge segment of the market! Just sayin!

    PS - the decision to go 100% VG as the default carrier for your unflavored WTA juice was a shrewd one, I have a theory that this is a big reason Boba's is so popular, because it is most vaper's first encounter with 100% VG and they love it! :D
  15. yummi4tunekookie

    yummi4tunekookie Full Member

    Quick (perhaps stupid) question from a kinda-sorta-not-really-ish newbie: The concentrations offered for your unflavored WTA--are they of nicotine or the WTAs themselves? I'm looking for a low-to-naught nicotine WTA liquid.

    Also, I called the number listed on your contact page a few hours ago and just received a return call from a woman (Penny, I presume?) asking who I was. I don't know whether the line cut out or I was hung up on, but the call ended pretty abruptly; I did hear her mention something about Dave, though, but much of what I heard was unintelligible. It seems like the number is for a personal cell phone, though I could be mistaken. I still haven't received a call back.

    Not trying to pick a bone with you, as I've been very happy with what your company has to offer, but that experience was a wee bit off-putting. Hopefully you guys can get the phone situation sorted out with an office phone (which you may very well have) and a pre-recorded answering machine.
  16. Mr.Mann

    Mr.Mann Visit the PIF Sub-Forum Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    I completely understand where you're coming from, but at close to a grand per test, it is unlikely to come for every batch. That's part of the problem--as much as one test and the results would be awesome, it would also really only be valid if it came from every batch.

    The easiest would be to own a GC-MS. But that would then mean that the results wouldn't be able to legitimately be posted as it wouldn't be an independent run test. The cost would be much more cost-efficient (obviously) to own one, and even though it would be the cost of a decent used car, it would pay for itself quickly. Though, one would have to be educated in reading the results.

    The percentage represents WTA, which roughly 95% of that is nicotine and the rest is the minor alkaloids. If you want a really low mg, you could just buy a 10 mL at 25 mg and add more VG (or VG/PG or PG) to that until it gets at the level you want. For example: if you want 12.5 mg WTA, you could pay for 25 mg and get 20 mL for the price of a 10 mL. You could ask JF for 10 mL of no nic VG as I am sure he would accommodate you. The lower mg you really want the better the price works out for you. Me, I like the mg as is so I got to deal with the price as is. LOL
  17. jfresh

    jfresh Registered Supplier ECF Veteran

    ^what he said....
  18. yummi4tunekookie

    yummi4tunekookie Full Member

    Well, snap, guys! Thanks for the input. I'll definitely look into getting some pure VG to dilute the nicotine down a bit--and some flavor concentrates at Wholecig to give things a delicious kick!
  19. Mr.Mann

    Mr.Mann Visit the PIF Sub-Forum Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Man, I am so jealous of people that want lower percentages as you can double or damn near triple the amount you get with the same cost for half or a third of what I will vape.
  20. jfresh

    jfresh Registered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Hey Mr. Mann...

    I saw your question on the general WTA discussion thread,
    "From what I understand, nornicotine and cotinine are both minor/secondary alkaloids and metabolites of nicotine, but nornictoine is in a fairly high percentage of the famous "5%". I am finding conflicting information about whether nornicotine even has any MAOI effects--most of what I can tell is that it mostly "acts" like nic. I guess what I am asking is that if nornicotine is a "major" minor alkaloid, but it doesn't seem to be all that impressive for the part that we're looking for when vaping WTA, is its presence needed? Or is this the scenario where isolating a specific alkaloid would be too prohibitive and just not worth the hassle?"

    Thought this study probably confirms your impression that nornicotine seems to have less synergistic effects with nicotine than the other prevalent minor alkaloids...at least in rats.

    The addition of five minor tobacc... [Int J Neuropsychopharmacol. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI

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