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So I have an idea: why don't we get a crowdfunding campaign going to help manufacturers pay for section 910 applications? If the FDA can't handle a few hundred cigarette applications, they're gonna have a really bad time processing the tens of thousands of applications for e-cig hardware/liquid...

A lot of judges don't see it that way though. Take judge Leon for example. He blocked the cigarette warning labels from taking effect and if the above statement were true I don't think that would have happened. Judges aren't like congress, they aren't going to buy into those ideas for political...

Well sure it would, they wouldn't challenge it for that purpose onviously. I guess I should have asked if medium-sized tobacco (like Swedish Match or the makers of a few discount cigarettes for example) has ever gotten screwed and fought it then and if so what the court said about it.

A few of their products did get applications rejected as far as I know, forget what it was though. Of course when you're RJ Renoylds you're probably better off just letting the new variety of camels get rejected instead of fighting for something you were just kind of experimenting with and...

Nicotine is either a drug or a tobacco product, if nicorette theoretically wanted their products to be regulated as tobacco products they have the option to do so, but instead they have as a drug.

Wow, litterally everything. I guess speculation about legal theory isn't going to do much good at this point then. Worst case scenario is I'm going to be importing a lot of snus. The FDA can't really be blamed here though, they really are just doing what the law says to do, we really can't do...

Wait what? Pipes themselves are considered tobacco products? Last I checked the FDA said pipes couldn't be tobacco products and they had no intention of doing so? What the hell?

Those are CLEARLY associated with tobacco though, the issue here is that you don't have to get nicotine in vapor products, just like you don't have to put tobacco in a pipe. Not to mention, Juicy Jays makes flavored rolling papers specifically stating they are NOT to be used for tobacco...

But seriously I just thought more about the component argument more and it makes total sense the more I think about it, we should argue or at least shoot for a ruling similar to this..... a battery/tank/cartridge/atomizer can only be considered a "component" of a tobacco product if: *the...

I wonder if there's any caselaw where this type of issue has come up before, it seems like letting a product evolve for nearly a decade before applying a law nearly a decade old to it would be a major problem, and again, judges don't like to play that game.

Exactly! And the fact is, now that E-liquid is established to be a tobacco product, NOTHING puts hardware as a component of a tobacco product except the FDA's arbitrary declaration as such. NOTHING in FSPTCA says hardware is a component of a tobacco product. I know it says "heating source" but...

And they're correct about that; they CAN'T go against what the law says like that, I'm saying challenge the provision in the statute itself altogether. I'm not saying go for the FDA, I'm saying gun for the actual statutory provision instead. I bet you money that a judge could strike out the...

I'm well aware of the N-Joy case and the outcome of it. I'm not saying we don't argue e-cigs are tobacco products, or rather that E-liquid is one for sure, the question should be about section 910 specifically and the compatibility of it's language to even apply to e-cigs, and whether or not...

I'm sure he does but this is serious stuff right here, don't get the admins to lock it up pls. At least not till we get some feedback to my semi-profressional legal analysis by somebody who's a full professional. I seriously think this law has some serious weaknesses because congress loves to...

Seriously though, legal professionals weigh in on this here: 1.) Has the FDA made any press releases on how hardware is distinct from a pipe and justifiably treatable like a cigarette filter or paper? What is their argument? 2.) Is there anything in FSPTCA justifying the grandfather date? If...

Okay so I'm just a paralegal student who took administrative law, but I already see section 910 as worth attempting to challenge once the FDA begins to enforce it. First, let's look at what FSPTCA says about the characteristics that need to BE substantially equivalent: "....'characteristics'...

Thanks for the tip! I'm thinking about using one of those direct import sites like snus24 so I can try a bunch of different things, is that Al Capone snus any good? I really like their cigars.

So I know most people here don't like American snus, but considering I don't go through that much snus, ordering online isn't worth it for me, mint burns my cheeks, and I cannot STAND bergemont, so General is out, which leaves me with Camel Robust/Mellow which taste great IMO but don't have much...

It really didn't seem like a hit piece to me. It seemed as though they were criticizing BT for sticking it's nose into the industry and trying to use regulations in a way that's unfair to small vendors, and also the fact that they say it's laughable that they put worse warnings on e-cigs than...

What's important about this article is: 1.) it implicitly if not explicitly acknowledges that e-cigs aren't nearly as bad as combustibles And more importantly 2.) it acknowledges that what BT is doing is obviously an unfair ploy to rub out smaller manufacturers and puts an actual FACE to...