100% VG -- how to

[BigErn]

I wish I could tolerate PG or even PG/VG blends. During my research, I have read so many different theories, opinions, "facts," and statements about the "safety" or "risks" of inhaling PG or VG. If I were to add my own opinion, it would have to be that the health risks (long term) associated with inhaling PG or VG are unknown at this point in time. Personally (and unfortunately), I am "PG sensitive." Though I have not gone to a doctor to establish whether or not I am technically "allergic" to it, I get the same headache EVERY time I vape a juice with PG in it. I do not get these headaches when vaping 100% VG. However, my older sister vapes like a maniac, usually a 50/50 blend of PG and VG, and she has never reported any ill effects from it. It seems like I have been seeing a LOT of "back and forthing" about the alleged risks of PG, the assumed benefits of VG, and so on and so forth. I do not believe that PG is "toxic." Not at all. Some people may be sensitive to PG, allergic to it, or maybe they just prefer the way that VG vapes. Like I said, I much prefer the "feel" and the flavor of blends (both are beneficiaries of PG), but am forced to settle for VG. So be it. What I AM reasonably sure of is that vaping, whether its PG, VG, or PG/VG does not, has not, and will not threaten my health as drastically as smoking analogs possibly will.

 

[Kreator8]

I hope this will help for your information... Flash point is the temperature at which a liquid combusts with oxygen. Since water already has oxygen in it, it can't burn, so it has no flash point. However it does vaporize or boil at 212° degrees Fahrenheit. That being said we can look at Propylene glycol vs Vegetable Glycerin. Propylene glycol first: Exact molecular formula is known and posted online you are smoking C3-H8-O2 Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen. It has a flash point of 220.2° degrees Fahrenheit. However Vegetable Glycerin has a flash point of 348.8° Fahrenheit, and that is much higher. As a result it is possible to burn PG before VG. When either is burned it gives off a smell similar to burned fat. This is exactly like burning a fatty steak on the stove. As a result it breaks down into acrolein. Acrolein is a relatively electrophilic compound with high toxicity. As a result it is my finding that a strong mod with a high mah turned up to a high voltage can burn PG. I suggest using High levels of VG and not PG as it is safer. If you can keep the voltage down you should be OK with PG but you will get less smoke. VG is much better at producing a good visible vapor at a lower voltage and can withstand higher voltage. The molecular Formula for nicotine is: C10 H14 N2 it has a flash point of 203 ° Fahrenheit. As such it to can burn however as a lesser part of the overall solution of Vegetable Glycerin and little or no Propylene glycol you can achieve an average flash point close to 300° which should be safe from burning in the average mod.

 

[Kreator8]

Note the extra vapor you get from VG is not harmful in average amounts it is only if you burn the juice do you get harmful elements. The vapor is simply absorbed by you body. It not the same as drowning. Of course if you over do it way too much and don't clean your device I would think bacteria is possible.
Hope that helps.

 

[Kreator8]

how close we get to this 'flash point' when vaping?

Answer depends on your use and device.

High mah and voltage can burn a dry wick. A wet wick is cooler. Make sure your holes are big enough to feed the wick and give time to feed the wick between puffs based on your system and flow rate. Your closeness to the flash point of your exact mix and mod unit is hard to calculate. could be 100 degrees or 20 or maybe your on edge just burning. Depends on what your using. The taste will drop off before the burn, and if you burn hard it will taste bad. Better to have more degrees to play with and enjoy the better vapor. Also running at a lower voltage will make your battery last longer.

 

[Myk]

I know from reading you can't use tank because VG is really thick and sticky, right?

I use 100% PG free in eGo-Cs without a problem. In fact IMO the thicker the better.
PG free or not has little to do with the final thickness of a juice. The people who blame the thickness of a juice on whether it's PG or PG free don't know what they're talking about.
Take what you hear with a grain of salt. People are fast to blame and slow (like never) to come back and say they were wrong.

 

[icucme2]

vg all the way. i am also using in a tank w two slots grinded in carto

 

[Covert]

Just finished a tank of 100%VG Boba's Bounty with a Boge 3.0ohm SR XL that was slotted twice on a apollo DCT tank on a SS VTUBE with no problems. Virgin Vapor has some great flavors as well as AVE and Vaperite : ) You should also look for the supplier thread and go from there

 

[Adam the Aussie]

I hope this will help for your information... Flash point is the temperature at which a liquid combusts with oxygen. Since water already has oxygen in it, it can't burn, so it has no flash point. However it does vaporize or boil at 212° degrees Fahrenheit. That being said we can look at Propylene glycol vs Vegetable Glycerin. Propylene glycol first: Exact molecular formula is known and posted online you are smoking C3-H8-O2 Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen. It has a flash point of 220.2° degrees Fahrenheit. However Vegetable Glycerin has a flash point of 348.8° Fahrenheit, and that is much higher. As a result it is possible to burn PG before VG. When either is burned it gives off a smell similar to burned fat. This is exactly like burning a fatty steak on the stove. As a result it breaks down into acrolein. Acrolein is a relatively electrophilic compound with high toxicity. As a result it is my finding that a strong mod with a high mah turned up to a high voltage can burn PG. I suggest using High levels of VG and not PG as it is safer. If you can keep the voltage down you should be OK with PG but you will get less smoke. VG is much better at producing a good visible vapor at a lower voltage and can withstand higher voltage. The molecular Formula for nicotine is: C10 H14 N2 it has a flash point of 203 ° Fahrenheit. As such it to can burn however as a lesser part of the overall solution of Vegetable Glycerin and little or no Propylene glycol you can achieve an average flash point close to 300° which should be safe from burning in the average mod.

Thanks for your explanation, I appreciate the effort to explain this for me. I guess I was just interested in your opinion on why you think VG is safer as I've never heard anyone talking about this 'flash point' thing as being an issue. I understand the VG = More vapor, less throat hit less flavour and PG = Less vapor, more throat hit, more flavour. I vape a 70pg/30vg blend and it's perfect for me. Too much VG and I start wheezing like I'm back on the smokes and 100pg is too harsh on the throat and not enough vapor. I don't think the voltage I vape at is going to be a 'flash point' problem, so i'll keep on doing what I'm doing.

Thanks again for the explanation.

 

[Racehorse]

Intesting replies.

I wasn't really worried about PG being dangerous, so much as that I'm a very "allergenic" person, with foods, so I thought I probably shouldn't push my luck, but I'll try a few mixtures of both and see what happens.

I just wanted to know if VG only could work, and it's great to know others are vaping it successfully.

Love the e-liquids calculator, the info on flash points, etc.

 

[Adam the Aussie]

At the end of the day Racehorse, I'm sure you'll do what you're most comfortable with. That's the great thing about vaping, there's so many options out there, there's a solution for just about everyone.

 

[Caridwen]

I hope this will help for your information... Flash point is the temperature at which a liquid combusts with oxygen. Since water already has oxygen in it, it can't burn, so it has no flash point. However it does vaporize or boil at 212° degrees Fahrenheit. That being said we can look at Propylene glycol vs Vegetable Glycerin. Propylene glycol first: Exact molecular formula is known and posted online you are smoking C3-H8-O2 Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen. It has a flash point of 220.2° degrees Fahrenheit. However Vegetable Glycerin has a flash point of 348.8° Fahrenheit, and that is much higher. As a result it is possible to burn PG before VG. When either is burned it gives off a smell similar to burned fat. This is exactly like burning a fatty steak on the stove. As a result it breaks down into acrolein. Acrolein is a relatively electrophilic compound with high toxicity. As a result it is my finding that a strong mod with a high mah turned up to a high voltage can burn PG. I suggest using High levels of VG and not PG as it is safer. If you can keep the voltage down you should be OK with PG but you will get less smoke. VG is much better at producing a good visible vapor at a lower voltage and can withstand higher voltage. The molecular Formula for nicotine is: C10 H14 N2 it has a flash point of 203 ° Fahrenheit. As such it to can burn however as a lesser part of the overall solution of Vegetable Glycerin and little or no Propylene glycol you can achieve an average flash point close to 300° which should be safe from burning in the average mod.

This has been gone over repeatedly on this forum. Do a forum search.

Inhaled PG has been studied extensively, and from that data and the information available there is no reason to believe it is unsafe. It has been studied because it is being used in inhalers for many drugs, nebulizers, air conditioning in hospitals and so forth since the 1950's.

VG hasn't actually been studied quite as much. Two reasons for this, it is known to be a perfectly safe substance when ingested, and there is no real application for inhaled VG. There is no reason to believe at this point in time from the information that we have available that it is unsafe.

 

[RickTheBeard]

personally i use a heavy VG base with only a touch of PV(maybe 5%)
i once tried 100% PV and my throat closed up and i produced no vapor at all, so im not doing that again but the 5% seems to give me a good throat hit.
i use clearomizers and recently duel coil cartomizers, no real issues with the heavy VG liq i make

 

[ShogaNinja]

The WHO (World Health Organization) says that the safe oral intake of acrolein is 7.5 mg/kg of body weight per day. Since it's impossible to vape that much juice in a day I'd say it's generally recognized as safe. Is it still dangerous over the long term? Not sure. Is anyone sure of anything when it comes to vaping? Still, don't freak people out about PG.

 

[Xpoint]

according to replys here i think i will order 100%VG next time - thanks for the tips!

 

[AuBadge]

I guess everyone has varying levels of success with 100% VG in tanks. I can't say that it's been a problem for me; I fill the carto (condom method), put the carto in the tank, fill the tank, and vape. I punch two holes in my cartos. This has worked fine for me regardless of the % of VG in the juice. I've also never used anything to make the VG thinner. Maybe I should; just haven't seen the need so far.

 

[Kreator8]

Sorry but you are wrong. In all those applications you are talking about there is no risk of reaching the flash point. When flash point is reach if you vape incorrectly you will produce acrolein, and that is not good. As long as you do it correctly it can be safe. Look at water. It is safe right? Just plain old clean water, but if you drink too much your body will dilute. Blood cells will fill up with water and become turgid. Because they do not have cellulose walls like plants they would pop like balloons and you would die. (we are talking a lot of water here) My information is correct you do the research I have done mine. with .org and .edu sights that have facts that are backed up. As far as your comment on the Vegetable Glycerin you have talked about ingesting it, and that is not the same as applying heat. When the flash point is reach for most any substance the heat alters it molecular structure. Basic chemistry. So there is reason to "believe" as you put it. It is up to you what you put in your body, but the facts are the facts I did my homework. It is best not to mislead people.

This has been gone over repeatedly on this forum. Do a forum search.

Inhaled PG has been studied extensively, and from that data and the information available there is no reason to believe it is unsafe. It has been studied because it is being used in inhalers for many drugs, nebulizers, air conditioning in hospitals and so forth since the 1950's.

VG hasn't actually been studied quite as much. Two reasons for this, it is known to be a perfectly safe substance when ingested, and there is no real application for inhaled VG. There is no reason to believe at this point in time from the information that we have available that it is unsafe.

 

[Kreator8]

I am glad my information helped you. The mix you like is just fine as long as you don't burn it. You will taste it if burn. Only the more or less flavor part i don't find applies to the PG or VG exactly. It will depend more on the flavor you choose and how much is in the mix. As long as you get good flavor you most likely have a good voltage for your mix. Go with it buddy sounds like you have your sweet spot.

Thanks for your explanation, I appreciate the effort to explain this for me. I guess I was just interested in your opinion on why you think VG is safer as I've never heard anyone talking about this 'flash point' thing as being an issue. I understand the VG = More vapor, less throat hit less flavour and PG = Less vapor, more throat hit, more flavour. I vape a 70pg/30vg blend and it's perfect for me. Too much VG and I start wheezing like I'm back on the smokes and 100pg is too harsh on the throat and not enough vapor. I don't think the voltage I vape at is going to be a 'flash point' problem, so i'll keep on doing what I'm doing.

Thanks again for the explanation.

 

[Jixchel]

I hope this will help for your information... Flash point is the temperature at which a liquid combusts with oxygen. Since water already has oxygen in it, it can't burn, so it has no flash point. However it does vaporize or boil at 212° degrees Fahrenheit. That being said we can look at Propylene glycol vs Vegetable Glycerin. Propylene glycol first: Exact molecular formula is known and posted online you are smoking C3-H8-O2 Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen. It has a flash point of 220.2° degrees Fahrenheit. However Vegetable Glycerin has a flash point of 348.8° Fahrenheit, and that is much higher. As a result it is possible to burn PG before VG. When either is burned it gives off a smell similar to burned fat. This is exactly like burning a fatty steak on the stove. As a result it breaks down into acrolein. Acrolein is a relatively electrophilic compound with high toxicity. As a result it is my finding that a strong mod with a high mah turned up to a high voltage can burn PG. I suggest using High levels of VG and not PG as it is safer. If you can keep the voltage down you should be OK with PG but you will get less smoke. VG is much better at producing a good visible vapor at a lower voltage and can withstand higher voltage. The molecular Formula for nicotine is: C10 H14 N2 it has a flash point of 203 ° Fahrenheit. As such it to can burn however as a lesser part of the overall solution of Vegetable Glycerin and little or no Propylene glycol you can achieve an average flash point close to 300° which should be safe from burning in the average mod.

Since we are getting all scientific here, this is from a chef's point of view..... but water boils at a different temperature at different elevations. If I am 1000 feet above sea level that boiling temp is actually 210 degrees, not 212..... so do these various elevations also effect your flash point temperatures?

 

[Kreator8]

What is impossible to vape in one day goes with out say. Keep in mind there is no acrolein unless you burn it. So why would you try to do so? Maybe 7.5 MG of rat poison won't kill you either but you still wouldn't eat it for dinner. After all we know analogs also take years to kill you. It's not the single does that is so bad, but vaping wrong over time when it takes only common sense to do it totally safe, and it will taste much better.

The WHO (World Health Organization) says that the safe oral intake of acrolein is 7.5 mg/kg of body weight per day. Since it's impossible to vape that much juice in a day I'd say it's generally recognized as safe. Is it still dangerous over the long term? Not sure. Is anyone sure of anything when it comes to vaping? Still, don't freak people out about PG.

 

[Kreator8]

Yes they do you can cut with more VG or lower voltage. Keep in mind it will also vape better the higher you go at lower temperatures.

Since we are getting all scientific here, this is from a chef's point of view..... but water boils at a different temperature at different elevations. If I am 1000 feet above sea level that boiling temp is actually 210 degrees, not 212..... so do these various elevations also effect your flash point temperatures?