18350

[Zutankhamun]

i'm using some 18350s at the moment but I only have two. The battery life is so rubbish. It feels worse than 3X as low.
When I am using 18650s I have enough and wait generally 3 hours either side of charge/discharge cycles. Do I have to wait as long for these small batteries which are only 800 Mah? Considering they charge pretty quickly because they're so small. Thanks

 

[Baditude]

Not sure if I understand your question. "Do I have to wait as long for these small batteries...?"

Seems like buying more 18350 batteries would be the best solution to your problem. Back when I was using 18350 mods exclusively I kept up to four charged 18350 batteries in a plastic battery case so that I could vape the entire day between charges.




I finally got too frustrated with 18350 batteries and 18350 mods. I use 18650 batteries and mods exclusively now.

 

[Firestorm]

My NiteCore-i2 battery charger charges the 800mAh AW IMR 18350s in just over an hour. It takes about five hours for it to charge a 3000mAh 18650 HG LG2.

 

[Zutankhamun]

Cheers guys. Yeah I will get more but I read once (possibly from you @Baditude) that you should wait a couple/few hours before charging/discharging my batteries. It may have been Mooch actually, but they said that more incidents had occurred when people had taken their batteries straight off the charger. I like for them to rest. Correlation doesn't = causation and all that but I'd rather not use them right away. Just wondered if I needn't wait as long because the Mah and CDR is so low compared with 18650s. Waiting 3 hours seems ridiculous when the battery is charged in an hour.
Sos for long post.

 

[Baditude]

I see what you meant now, Zutankhamum.

From my understanding, it doesn't matter what size the battery is, all batteries should rest after reaching a full charge. A battery is at it most "excitable state" and is most vulnerable to a "battery incident" when fully charged. Just imagine all of those positive electrons bounching around inside the battery like a classroom full of ADHD kids bounching off the walls.

It's a statistical fact that 80% of all battery incidents occur while charging or immediately after charging and being placed inside of a mod.

You won't find the suggestion to rest batteries in any of the "battery bibles". This was a quote from our ECF administrator and battery expert, rolygate:

"Rest batteries after charging--
One commonly-reported factor in almost all the incidents we hear of where batteries failed violently while in use is that they were taken directly off the charger and then used immediately, at which point they failed.

Because of this, we think it may be a good idea to rest batteries after charging them. This advice will not be found in the usual 'reference bibles' on batteries, but we see more and different reports than others. Therefore we now advise:

Do not use batteries directly after charging them. Use a battery or batteries you previously charged, and that have rested for several hours. This is especially important if using a stacked pair for higher voltage, as statistically the risk is far higher." --Rolygate

The benefit to resting is increased battery lifespan & minimize the chance of venting.​

 

[Zutankhamun]

Haha I like your classroom analogy. Ok cool. Thanks for explaining. I have just got my kiss from Gus and I'm loving the small form factor. More batteries and one for the house me thinks.

 

[Bad Ninja]

I see what you meant now, Zutankhamum.

From my understanding, it doesn't matter what size the battery is, all batteries should rest after reaching a full charge. A battery is at it most "excitable state" and is most vulnerable to a "battery incident" when fully charged. Just imagine all of those positive electrons bounching around inside the battery like a classroom full of ADHD kids bounching off the walls.

It's a statistical fact that 80% of all battery incidents occur while charging or immediately after charging and being placed inside of a mod.

You won't find the suggestion to rest batteries in any of the "battery bibles". This was a quote from our ECF administrator and battery expert, rolygate:

"Rest batteries after charging--
One commonly-reported factor in almost all the incidents we hear of where batteries failed violently while in use is that they were taken directly off the charger and then used immediately, at which point they failed.

Because of this, we think it may be a good idea to rest batteries after charging them. This advice will not be found in the usual 'reference bibles' on batteries, but we see more and different reports than others. Therefore we now advise:

Do not use batteries directly after charging them. Use a battery or batteries you previously charged, and that have rested for several hours. This is especially important if using a stacked pair for higher voltage, as statistically the risk is far higher." --Rolygate

The benefit to resting is increased battery lifespan & minimize the chance of venting.​

Ive heard this for a few years around here.
Other than allowing a warm cell to reach room temp, I dont do this.

I have never seen anything from a manufacturer suggesting this.

Statistics arent facts, they are anecdotal and misleading.

"98% of all statistics are made up in the spot".
Id like to see a link to the study producing the one Baditude quoted.

 

[Baditude]

I have never seen anything from a manufacturer suggesting this.

Id like to see a link to the study producing the one Baditude quoted.

You're not going to find a battery manufacturer give any recommendations for using their batteries in an ecigarette. In fact, they are going to recommend you NOT USE their batteries in an ecigarette.

I'm not going to take the time to find the specific quote, but here's a link to the study.

E-Cigarette Explosions: Comprehensive List

Rolygate recommendations about resting batteries

 

[sawlight]

"Resting" has been a well know practice in the flashlight world for years. Check some of the info on Candlepowerforums.com sometime. They are the inventors of battery safety.

 

[Zutankhamun]

Yeah. I must admit that I was completely unaware of any battery safety, electronics and vaping in general before I began visiting this forum. Study's that represent the information that is told here would be helpful to read. The info has seen me in a good direction so far.

I do wonder though, what are the benefits to people like you two, the various Bad's when helping others. Is it just your love of vaping or are there other motives, Like vaping businesses, advertisement, etc...

 

[Bad Ninja]

You're not going to find a battery manufacturer give any recommendations to using their batteries in an ecigarette. In fact, they are going to recommend you NOT USE their batteries in an ecigarette.

I'm not going to take the time to find the specific quote, but here's a link to the study.

E-Cigarette Explosions: Comprehensive List

First let me say I appreciate all the excellent work you do educating vapers.
I reference your work and blogs often and you have earned my respect.
I do tend to play mythbuster when i see something off.

Without breaking a sweat to rip that ridiculous post Disguised as a survey let me make a couple quick observations.

Only 168 incidents were studied.
Only 22 of those were mods with removable batteries.
We do not know if any of those had a problem due to not "resting".


Thats not enough information to learn anything.

Come on now.

 

[Bad Ninja]

"Resting" has been a well know practice in the flashlight world for years. Check some of the info on Candlepowerforums.com sometime. They are the inventors of battery safety.

Ive been a member since 09.

 

[Firestorm]

I too let my batteries cool to room temperature after taking them off the charger before I consider using them. I let them sit for 10 minutes; 3 hours seems excessive. I have six AW IMR 800mAh 18350s that I cycle through. I go through about three a day. I have enough spare batteries that are fully charged and waiting for me that using them right off the charger is never a concern. Perhaps you should get enough batteries where it similarly will not be an issue for you.

 

[Baditude]

I do wonder though, what are the benefits to people like you two, the various Bad's when helping others. Is it just your love of vaping or are there other motives, Like vaping businesses, advertisement, etc...

Vaping is my passion. When I began vaping five years ago, I had a battery explode in my first mechanical mod. My knowledge of batteries at that point was limited to batteries in a flashlight. Little did I know should the fire button on a mech mod get stuck in the "on" position that it could cause the battery to explode. If that happened with a flashlight, the battery would just run down dead.

This unfortunate incident inspired me to research and learn about batteries and safe mod use. I created my blogs to help inform other vapers of the information that I learned so that they could benefit from my knowledge and experience. I receive about 10 personal messages a week on ECF asking about battery and mod safety, and I answer each and every one to the best of my knowledge. I don't get paid or receive any paybacks for this service. That is my Pay It Forward.

 

[Zutankhamun]

I am always confusing people. I have 12 batts in total 4 married, 6 single 18650s and the 2 annoying 18350s so I am fine. 11 watts so I'm lucky if I get through 2 a day. I take them out at 3.8 generally. The two is where the question comes from. Simple, get more 350s. Just wondered is all.

 

[Zutankhamun]

Well thanks then Baditude. Hopefully the help will mean I steer clear of any explosions. I'm/Your/We're doing well so far.

 

[Baditude]

Without breaking a sweat to rip that ridiculous post Disguised as a survey let me make a couple quick observations.

Only 168 incidents were studied.
Only 22 of those were mods with removable batteries.
We do not know if any of those had a problem due to not "resting".

Thats not enough information to learn anything.

Then link me to a better source of information. As far as I know, this is the best that we have. I know Rolygate has taken a special interest in this subject, and probably has kept a personal list of mod & battery explosions, but I've not seen it published anywhere.

I respect your knowledge and experience, and the work that you do on ECF too. We don't always agree, but I think we are both open to an honest debate.

 

[sawlight]

Ive been a member since 09.

Had to go look, I joined in '07. Still rocking my HDS high CRI clicky, haven't found any need to improve on that perfection!