18650, 17500, 18500, 17670, 18650, RCR123A Charger L-Ion Charger Info.

[T^2]

First a review from Battery University about charging Lithium-Ion batteries:

Charging lithium-ion batteries

After researching battery chargers one finds that most are poor/junk. A good thread that will elucidate:

Consumer Li-Ion "cradle" charger roundup... - CandlePowerForums

Some problems seen with most common cheap chargers (ie. Trustfire, Ultrafire etc.):

1) Overcharging above 4.2V
2) Failing to turn off when the charging cycle is complete (Continuing to trickle charge. Note: trickle charging is not the same thing as a topping charge applied occasionally when a battery naturally self-discharges to a predetermined voltage - ie. 4.05V).
3) Does not adhere to the recommended CC/CV charging algorithm/profile.

Two chargers that I've come across appear to be free of these problems - well almost....

- The Pila IBC
This charger had none of the above problems. It supposedly does everything correctly.

1) It charges to approximately 4.17V.
2) It shuts off when the cycle is complete
3) Adheres to the correct CC/CV charging profile

The manufacturers description of the charger states "Stage 4 - Standby mode, trickle charge". From what I've found out, the "trickle charge" isn't really a trickle charge. In this case it's a topping charge that occurs when the battery self discharges to a predetermined voltage - 4.05V. This is ideal according to Battery University (see link above).

The downside to the Pila is it's price ($45.00).

- The Shekor charger
It performs similar to the Pila charger on items 1 and 2. See the following thread:

SheKor Charger for 18650/17670/18500/17500/14500/16340/ - CandlePowerForums

However, it performs less admirably on number 3. The CC/CV charging profile of the Shekor is only a rough approximation. See post #36 in the above thread.

An upside to the Shekor is it's price - $10.28 to $14.50.

There's also a potential improvement possible in the Shekor CC/CV charging cycle profile. See post #93 and #96 in the above thread.

All in all the Shekor looks like a potentially safe and cheap alternative. For max battery life in terms of charging cycles, then the Pila might be the way go.

 

[BK_Malik]

Has anyone charged any RCR123A 3.0V 750mAh LiFePO4 batts on this charger? Is it safe to do so?

 

[duby]

all of the listed chargers are 4.2V. So not recommended for your 3.0V batteries.
For Tenergy batts I would recommend their charger. AW recommends the Ultrafire CR123 charger with a 3.0V setting. If you are using generics I would go with one of the those two chargers.
FYI LiFePO4's have slightly different charge characteristics. Even if you stick them in a 4.2V charger they are unlikely to explode. You will however damage them and possibly your charger. It could cause your charger to overheat and burn up.

If you want the Best of the best of the best charger, you're going to need to get a Balance charger and custom wire a cradle/charging apparatus. For $70 to $100 it will charge up to 6 or 8 cells in series at programmable Constant Voltage and Constant Current.

 

[BababooeyHTJ]

I just need to ask. Can I charge 3v 16340 batts on my Ultrafire TR-001 or any other 4.2v charger for that mater?

 

[Tom_E_Calm7]

I read somewhere else that the 18650's that I dug out of my old laptop battery would not be safe. Just to give you the specs on them : model-CGR18650D also below that they say
Li-ion MH12210. Now I've reaserched these and found out that they are 2350 mah batteries. Dont know if they are protected or not. How can I tell?

 

[WillyB]

Great batts, probably Japan made, but Panasonic doesn't make retail type protected batts as far as I know.

 

[Tom_E_Calm7]

yes they are japanese, I can tell by the writing on them. I can still charge them right? I just ordered a charger and I hope it works.
somone please reply

 

[duby]

I just need to ask. Can I charge 3v 16340 batts on my Ultrafire TR-001 or any other 4.2v charger for that mater?

Simple answer NO.

Little longer: No, they will explode.

Complicated:
Its not recommended. Overcharging batteries damages them and can cause thermal runaway (i.e. that thing that happens when they explode).
A standard Li-ion (cobalt) battery should not be charged at a current higher than 1/2 its rated capacity. Some manufacturers recommend less, some more.
LiFePO4 batteries are a little different. These are lithium ion batteries that use Iron phosphate instead of cobalt. These are much less likely to explode. Its a benefit of the chemistry. It is referred to as a "safe chemistry"
Since its Safe (or safer) it can take more abuse and be less likely to cause damage to you. That being said, sticking a 3V or 3.3V LiFePO4 battery on a 4.2V charger is still abusing it. It can still damage the battery (potentially ruining it) or the charger(Chargers are dumb by the way, but that's another post). Now if the charger malfunctions because the battery doesn't like it, the charger could start a fire or damage you(back to that chargers are dumb thing).

Now on to Protection circuits.
So hopefully we all have read the protected vs. unprotected battery threads and know that protection circuits are little buggers that stop the battery from doing anything that may damage itself, or YOU.
So if you put a 3V protected cell in a 4.2V charger that protection circuit will tell the charger to bugger off and lock everything down so that nothing bad can happen(hopefully). In some cases the protection circuit might even let enough current through to charge the battery before saying bugger off.
Now these protection circuits are tiny. 2mm thick and the diameter of your battery tiny. Various things could potentially damage them and cause them to break like water, e-juice, dirt, and of course a 4.2V charger.
Once these guys break one of two things happen. They can break in Bugger off mode permanently lock everything down. Your battery will cease to work. Or they could breakdown in a "free and loose" let everything through state in which case they are no longer trying to keep you safe.

LiFePO4's don't use protection circuits because its not needed(back to that "safe" thing).

Tenergy and Ultrafire both make 3V chargers for RCR123's, 16340's, and 17355's(they are all the same just different names). Mine was $12.

Now I am going to tell you a story.
Several weeks ago my 3V charger died. It takes a while for a new one to get in, and I really wanted some 6V vaping. I use 3V LiFePO4's for my 6V set up.
Now back then I knew everything about batteries I know now. In my desire to get that HV vape again I decided I was smarter than all that knowledge and poped my 3V batteries into a 4.2V charger. My plan was to watch the voltage and pop them out when ready. It worked fine once.
The second time one battery got really mad that it was being over charged. The battery over heated and started melting the plastic cover that was on it. I noticed the smell first. It burned my finger tip to the touch (minor first degree burns, but the truth is less dramatic). So now that my hand was on fire, I notice the charger was kinda hot too. I unplugged everything, ran outside and threw the battery into a cinder block, capped the block (Never underestimate the usefulness of a cinder block in you back yard), and waited. Nothing happened. A few hours later the battery was cool and useless. (and my hand healed mostly save for a minor red spot, I have super human healing powers don't you know?). The charger faired fine as did my desk, etc.

Now in the aftermath of my moronity, I debated becoming a superhero and traveling the world saving people from overcharging their batteries. Then I decide superheroism is for people with no lives. So I just hang out and troll the internet now.

Don't put a 3V battery in a 3.7V battery charger. If you do, I will call you a ...... (Its ok for me to call you a ..... if I call myself one first).

Moral of the story,
Make it simple an people will ask if you are certain.
Make it complicated and people will forget.
Make it a silly story and maybe someone will laugh.

 

[Blaze]

I just got my PILA charger today. The only advice I can really give is to, like I did, suck it up and drop the $45 to get one. You won't be sorry you did after one charge.

My Tenergy's, which took about 6 hrs to charge on my Tenergy multicharger (keeping in mind I usually don't let charge fall below 3.6v), took only 2.5-3 hrs to charge on the PILA. And it doesn't overcharge my IMR batts. In fact, it will only charge them to 4.17v, even after hitting the reset button.

 

[duby]

There are also CC/CV mini chargers custom made on CPF market Place. They are ~$35 I believe and run at 400mA to 500mA with lower options available. It would take a while for these to charge an 18650, but for smaller batteries it should be fine.

 

[WillyB]

I really wanted some 6V vaping. I use 3V LiFePO4's for my 6V set up...

Note vaping with these 3V LiFePO4's:

Will only provide about 5.15V (vaping volts) right off the charger with both DSE901's or Joye 510's.

 

[5cardstud]

Great thread. Thanks for the info, I didn't know.

 

[misterD]

ok ill try this again,
can someone please explain what to look for when a li-ion battery gets unstable.(on verge of exploding) does it just leak? or does it go boom?

Can you keep this posted please?

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/modders-forum/18959-lithium-battery-failure-boom-im-okay.html

 

[BababooeyHTJ]

 

[Fitdiculous]

I posted this in the RnR Manufacturing thread as well since I just ordered a Ali'i and was hoping someone could chime in and help me out.

I have a pila IBC charger and getting the Ali'i VV, so I was recommended 2 of the AW IMR 16340's

just wanted to know what I needed for charging these batteries on this charger? are these spacers from lighthound going to work?

or do I need a dummy cell? this will be my first mod, but I also have a box mod on the way using a 14500 (which I would require the supplied "spacer" with the Pila Charger)

 

[WillyB]

I posted this in the RnR Manufacturing thread as well since I just ordered a Ali'i and was hoping someone could chime in and help me out.

just wanted to know what I needed for charging these batteries on this charger? are these spacers from lighthound going to work?

or do I need a dummy cell? this will be my first mod, but I also have a box mod on the way using a 14500 (which I would require the supplied "spacer" with the Pila Charger)[/I]

Well the AW IMR's are shorter than most 1634's (actually shorter across the whole range of sizes) seeing as they have no protection circuit. It seems the main reason Pila recommends their own batteries is due to length, the cheaper chargers with the sliders have an advantage here.

I believe the Pila 18650's are 68mm long (pretty standard) and their 14500 are 53. That would mean the included spacer is 15mm (have you measured it?). If you bought another you would be at 30mm of spacer. Subtracting 30 from 68 = 38mm. My gray TrustFire 1634's are about 36mm long. The IMR's are shorter yet. Even with both spacers you'll probably have to shim them a bit, pennies, nickles, dimes, magnets... something.

 

[Fitdiculous]

Well the AW IMR's are shorter than most 1634's (actually shorter across the whole range of sizes) seeing as they have no protection circuit. It seems the main reason Pila recommends their own batteries is due to length, the cheaper chargers with the sliders have an advantage here.

I believe the Pila 18650's are 68mm long (pretty standard) and their 14500 are 53. That would mean the included spacer is 15mm (have you measured it?). If you bought another you would be at 30mm of spacer. Subtracting 30 from 68 = 38mm. My gray TrustFire 1634's are about 36mm long. The IMR's are shorter yet. Even with both spacers you'll probably have to shim them a bit, pennies, nickles, dimes, magnets... something.

I haven't measured it.. I will do so tonight... I don't have the batteries in as of yet, still waiting for my IMR 14500's and about to order IMR 16340's... was told that just the 15mm spacers will do, but didn't think of the shorter sized IMR's .... so even a dummy cr123 wouldn't work as per this setup

 

[WillyB]

It's hard to say, once you have all in your hands it should be easy to figure out. I'd opt for making one. A wooden dowel with a couple of nails on each end and a piece of wire tying the nails together.