So I just have to say it, .. if you are an e liquid vendor who charges 20 or more for a tiny 30 ml bottle of juice, you are ripping people off plain and simple. I understand that there is research and development and all that jazz , but seriously though! It's a buck or two to make it and for the larger vendors probably literally cents to produce a 30 ml bottle. Maybe at first the 20 is necessary to recoup cost , but if I go on your website and you have a damn racing team! Lower your freaking prices . And yes everyone I realize I don't have to buy it , that's not the point. The point is when somebody starts out you get bombarded with all these brands and flavors and house juice etc. Then there's the you tubers who "review " products and just flat out lie in some cases . I've already spent a ridiculously stupid amount of money in just a short time on tanks , mods, and more importantly juices which don't last long in the only tank I've found that I actually like so far tfv8 with rebuildable section. So long rant short , there will always be a new sucker but I'm wising up and moving on to a more affordable option, imagine the long term juice companies , not just the quick profit . Over time it's far more profitable to keep your clients at a reasonable rate than to have to drawbthe new crowd over and over who doesn't know any better. Honestly if I was a you tube review person and someone sent me a bottle of juice that was nearly a dOlla per ml I wouldn't even review it ! Because that is called a scam.
20 buck or more for a 30 ml?
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Time for DIY. And it's way less than even $1 to mix up 30 ml. Actually, I think I can make 250 ml of a flavored 6 mg nic juice and still come in under $1. I started out with those expensive juices (loved/still love Halo's Tribeca) and am grateful they smoothed over my transition from cigarettes to vaping, but no, just no. Not anymore.
There is a reason why many websites that used to sell just hardware now push juice 24/7 , HUGE profits .
DIY is more popular than ever before and once you see how much juice you can make for peanuts it's a no brainer for most .
DIY is more popular than ever before and once you see how much juice you can make for peanuts it's a no brainer for most .
I'm happy we have both options. The way I look at it is, hey, I can cook fantastic food at home, but that doesn't mean I don't want to go out for a fancy meal every now and then. DIY is fun, and I have a few of my own recipes that I vape every day, but I also enjoy discovering new flavor concoctions from creative e liquid makers.
If you are a company that produces and sells overpriced stuff that doesn't mean you're ripping people off. It just means you're selling expensive stuff. I don't vape premium E-liquid. I think $25 for 30 milliliters is insane. But I certainly don't think the company is breaking some unspoken moral rule.
That being said I personally do not support these companies. I'm not spending $25 on a 30 milliliter when I can spend $25 and get 300 milliliters from Verde Valley Vapes.
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That being said I personally do not support these companies. I'm not spending $25 on a 30 milliliter when I can spend $25 and get 300 milliliters from Verde Valley Vapes.
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I see it like this, maybe they keep some loyal customers but I imagine most of their revenue is from inexperienced vapers just starting out , a gold rush of sorts really. At first I just figured ok well I guess that's the going rate . Til I started to do some research and realized the premium lines don't have any better ingredients for the most part than cheaper lines. It's a free market deal I guess . I do however feel they are ripping people off. And to make it worse they are doing it to people just starting out. At least that's what happened to me . It's partly my fault too , still doesn't make it right. I got caught up in the very beginning , no way it's ever happening again. I will vape what I have left from the premium stuff and find another option after that. It's bs and you know what they say. .... just because you can doesn't mean you should. When you are taking advantage of people , you are not an ambassador for your profession you are a crooked money grabber period. So much worse to me that , and correct me if I'm wrong but I believe a serious majority of their money comes from those just starting out.
I've tasted some cheap juices that tasted pretty good. I've tasted some expensive juices that tasted great. I've also tasted some cheap juices that were crap, and some expensive juices that tasted like crap.
Over the last few years I've tasted scores of different flavors, both cheap and expensive. One of my all time favorites is considered an expensive juice: Five Pawns Castle Long ($27.50 for 30ml). I buy it when I can afford it and vape it for special occassions. For me, it is worth the money because it is a unique flavor which I enjoy immensely. I have a DIY recipe for this flavor which I've yet to try.
I look at it this way. Some people pay premium money for premium cigars or premium liquer and feel it is worth it. People will pay big money for e-liquid that they find to be worth it.
Over the last few years I've tasted scores of different flavors, both cheap and expensive. One of my all time favorites is considered an expensive juice: Five Pawns Castle Long ($27.50 for 30ml). I buy it when I can afford it and vape it for special occassions. For me, it is worth the money because it is a unique flavor which I enjoy immensely. I have a DIY recipe for this flavor which I've yet to try.
I look at it this way. Some people pay premium money for premium cigars or premium liquer and feel it is worth it. People will pay big money for e-liquid that they find to be worth it.
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I couldn't agree more. Apparantly though, if the OP doesn't think it is worth it, it is then a ripoff or a scam.
I'm with you on Castle Long. Great stuff.
That and Cuttwood Boss Reserve are the only two juices I would pay over $20 a bottle for. They are totally unique and I could never replicate them or even bother due to how many different flavours are involved in the recipes. Maybe a once or twice a year treat and 90% of the rest of the time I vape my $1.00/30ml DIY juice.
I know that contract manufacturing on a 30ml bottle of juice is about $2 including the bottle/label so I refuse to pay for premium juice unless it is totally unique or I just have to try it due to the hype (Unicorn Milk, Jazzy Boba, Milkman, etc.). I don't wish anyone bad luck if they sell juice for inflated prices as the vape juice market is amazingly competitive. Good on 'em if people pay $20-30/30ml.... just not my thing.
I guess I am blessed to live in a region with over 50 B&M stores and many of those offer house liquid in the range of $20-$25 for 100-120ml.
I agree some of the boutique liquid manufacturers could ease up some on pricing, although a couple do package the liquid in specialty proprietary packaging. I could care less what kind of bottle and ribbon you put on top. I'm buying a product, not the package. KISS
I DIY 95% of the liquid I use, so this issue is pretty much moot for me. I agree with OP, though, for the most part.
I agree some of the boutique liquid manufacturers could ease up some on pricing, although a couple do package the liquid in specialty proprietary packaging. I could care less what kind of bottle and ribbon you put on top. I'm buying a product, not the package. KISS
I DIY 95% of the liquid I use, so this issue is pretty much moot for me. I agree with OP, though, for the most part.
It's not like juice makers are pocketing all that money. You have to take into consideration materials, manufacturing, lab certification, distribution cost, etc. Juice companies who user cheaper materials, and manufacture and distribute their own stuff are going to have much less overhead. Most "premium" juice companies only make about $1.50 per bottle. They're not ripping people off. They're charging what they have to to make a profit and keep the company going. Honestly, I'm sick of people whining about it. If you don't like the cost, don't buy it. It's like @tazzle said. Sometimes you want to treat yourself. If you like a "premium" juice, buy it every now and again as a treat, but don't blast them on a forum without doing your research.
Also, let me direct you here:
They start talking about the all the stuff I just said at about 31:00.
Also, let me direct you here:
They start talking about the all the stuff I just said at about 31:00.
I still use mostly premade juices in my little clearos at 5 watts. I don't use them all the time anymore and the challenge with 30 ml is not to get more than 2 days from it, but to use it before it goes bad.
No need to feel ripped off if you do your research before you spend much. That said, most all of us spent more than we should have when we started out. Some people think a $5 coffee is far better than a $1 coffee, others think it's a waste. I buy a 42oz Maxwell House Original Roast for $7 and DIY.
Different strokes for different folks.
Different strokes for different folks.
If you believe the numbers lol, I sure don't. Honestly I guess it doesn't matter , no one is on blast here. My opinion is really moot I'm just a guy. But I will tell you I believe they are entitled to make a healthy profit . They just won't get it from me anymore that's all. I'm noticing in this vape thing in general that there's a lot of nonsense , greed and overall b.s. well I for one won't be a part of it . Gonna figure out how to make my own blends and enjoy them. 20+ a 30 ml is a joke .
There are all sorts of business models to operate under and some are sustainable in the long run and some are not. The FDA may knock many of the less sustainable ones out of the market soon.
I live in a country that has but one store selling vape products and that consists of 3 different Chinese cig-a-likes and the juice pods that go with them so I do all my purchasing over the internet. I have noticed some big differences from one juice manufacturer to the next. MBV and Vape Wild are lower priced juices and have flavors I call candy flavors because I've recognized many of them from various hard candies I've tasted. Other more expensive juices usually taste better and I suspect are more complicated recipes utilizing better quality concentrates. Whether I like them or not just seems to depend on my tastes.
My DIY Rhodonite (raspberry tart) costs me exactly $0.794362 (can you tell I'm an accountant) to make a 60ml bottle and it is almost as good as some of the best manufactured juice I've tasted at any price. Hard to beat that.
I live in a country that has but one store selling vape products and that consists of 3 different Chinese cig-a-likes and the juice pods that go with them so I do all my purchasing over the internet. I have noticed some big differences from one juice manufacturer to the next. MBV and Vape Wild are lower priced juices and have flavors I call candy flavors because I've recognized many of them from various hard candies I've tasted. Other more expensive juices usually taste better and I suspect are more complicated recipes utilizing better quality concentrates. Whether I like them or not just seems to depend on my tastes.
My DIY Rhodonite (raspberry tart) costs me exactly $0.794362 (can you tell I'm an accountant) to make a 60ml bottle and it is almost as good as some of the best manufactured juice I've tasted at any price. Hard to beat that.
The thing is, if you are using the rhodonite recipe from ENYAWREKLAW, he actually spent a whole lot of time coming up with that recipe, but generously shared his recipe. Most of us couldn't make a super sophisticated mix on our own, but can DIY if someone gives us specific measurements that they've worked out from their own creativity and the load of time they've spent developing and perfecting it.
It's a little similar to open source software. We can use it for free and be boastful about how we don't spend money on XYZ Big Software Co, but we are using the education, training, labor, and creativity of the people who spent time to develop the app or program and yet offer it for free. We wouldn't be able to make it ourselves from scratch.
And when we work at making clones of popular retail e liquids, it's because the people who put in the time and effort to create and perfect those recipes and get them into the market and deal with all the production and marketing and sourcing and staffing and quality control and regulation issues in order to get the product out to us were successful with their efforts, so people have something to try to recreate.
Which is definitely not to say that it's terrible to try DIY clones of popular e liquids (I think it's probably actually helpful to the marketing of the original item if folks love it that much!), but that we shouldn't be too dismissive of all the effort that goes into the creation of nice things, or scornful of the people who make or pay for them.
It's a little similar to open source software. We can use it for free and be boastful about how we don't spend money on XYZ Big Software Co, but we are using the education, training, labor, and creativity of the people who spent time to develop the app or program and yet offer it for free. We wouldn't be able to make it ourselves from scratch.
And when we work at making clones of popular retail e liquids, it's because the people who put in the time and effort to create and perfect those recipes and get them into the market and deal with all the production and marketing and sourcing and staffing and quality control and regulation issues in order to get the product out to us were successful with their efforts, so people have something to try to recreate.
Which is definitely not to say that it's terrible to try DIY clones of popular e liquids (I think it's probably actually helpful to the marketing of the original item if folks love it that much!), but that we shouldn't be too dismissive of all the effort that goes into the creation of nice things, or scornful of the people who make or pay for them.
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I buy a 3 flavors from one company 15$/120ml and make one flavor of my own, between my mix and their stuff after delivery and taxes it costs me about 40$ (CAD) a month to vape 400ml ish... Retail... 20$ a bottle that'd be 266$+tax...
I started vaping hoping to cure my smoking. It worked. Now it's time to help others and I've had some success at that. I can use the economic argument, which is powerful depending on how you vape. I try to be a good example for people who should be spending the money they save their kids. The payback is I get to keep nearly all the money I used to spend on cigs, about $3,000 a year.
Vaping will crush smoking because of the price advantage. Eventually it will do the same to the vape business, literally annihilate itself, a perfect ending. There ought to be a Han Lic statue somewhere.
Vaping will crush smoking because of the price advantage. Eventually it will do the same to the vape business, literally annihilate itself, a perfect ending. There ought to be a Han Lic statue somewhere.
My thoughts on pricing are different than many here, be it juice or mods or whatever.
A products worth has very little to do with the cost of materials and everything to do with what the market will bear.
A products worth has very little to do with the cost of materials and everything to do with what the market will bear.
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