40 amp battery? Is it legit?

[Cptfunpants]

Anyone know anything about these guys? 40amps.
40 AMP 2300 mAh 18650 From Vamped - Vapor Hub

35amps.
Subohmcell 18650 35amp 2800 mAh Battery - Kidney Puncher


I saw GrimmGreen post a video where he discussed both of these.

 

[Papa_Lazarou]

I believe the vamped cells have been "debunked" as 20 amp continuous fire bats. The 40 amp spec was determined to be the infamous pulse rating.

 

[Cptfunpants]

I find it strange that someone who has been involved as heavily in the vape community as GrimmGreen could be putting out info like this claiming that they are legit 40amps....I am not implying he is intentionally giving out false info...but safety first.

 

[Papa_Lazarou]

Here's a quote from another thread in this forum. It's a reply from Vamped that an ecf'er got when inquiring about the 40 amp bats.....


Thanks for your email. To give you a little insight on the battery, we are working with one of the largest manufacturer in China and had the Vamped Vapor Cell custom made to reach 40 amps. The manufacturer produces millions of batteries for other large name brand batteries. They developed the custom cell for me, and will not release it for anyone else. My manufacturer has told me we have the strongest 18650 battery on the market at 40 amps, and they have not developed anything stronger for anyone.
When it comes to 40 amp discharge and 20 amp continuous, this is referring to an average pulse rate of 60 seconds. If you hold your button down for longer than 60 seconds the amps will drop to 20. For an average vaper, a pull is no longer than 60 seconds, so the amps will continue to remain at 40 amps. This is everything that we were told from our manufacturer. I hope this can answer some of your questions. If you have any other questions, please do not hesitate to ask.

Kyle Winther
Chief Executive Officer


Note the coy use of "discharge" versus "continuous". The consensus from that other thread was that we should really only be relying on the 20 amp continuous rating.

 

[Norrin]

I honestly think the pulse is a fine gauge as we don't usually vape for over 10secs, but having said that I would never use over the continuous because when these batteries fail they can do a lot of damage and risking life or limb to get a bit of extra power just isn't worth it. Bet many aren't as careful though and do builds even breaking the pulse rating.

 

[six]

I read an E-Bike guy on usenet that tests batts the way the flashlight guys do. He is emphatic that the vamped batt has the same cells as Imren. Imren advertises 40 amps... but I think there's enough info out there to say that's questionable even for a so called "pulse" rating.

 

[Soignee]

Here's a quote from another thread in this forum. It's a reply from Vamped that an ecf'er got when inquiring about the 40 amp bats.....


Thanks for your email. To give you a little insight on the battery, we are working with one of the largest manufacturer in China and had the Vamped Vapor Cell custom made to reach 40 amps. The manufacturer produces millions of batteries for other large name brand batteries. They developed the custom cell for me, and will not release it for anyone else. My manufacturer has told me we have the strongest 18650 battery on the market at 40 amps, and they have not developed anything stronger for anyone.
When it comes to 40 amp discharge and 20 amp continuous, this is referring to an average pulse rate of 60 seconds. If you hold your button down for longer than 60 seconds the amps will drop to 20. For an average vaper, a pull is no longer than 60 seconds, so the amps will continue to remain at 40 amps. This is everything that we were told from our manufacturer. I hope this can answer some of your questions. If you have any other questions, please do not hesitate to ask.

Kyle Winther
Chief Executive Officer


Note the coy use of "discharge" versus "continuous". The consensus from that other thread was that we should really only be relying on the 20 amp continuous rating.

This. .

 

[Ian444]

Just a bit of background or possibly helpful info on pulse vs continuous discharge ratings. In RC (radio controlled) models, lipo batteries are used which is short for lithium polymer. As far as I understand they are a lithium-ion battery. They usually come with a labelled continuous discharge and a "pulse" or short term high discharge rate. For example, it might be labelled 1000mAh, 25-50C, meaning 1000mAh capacity, 25C continuous discharge and 50C for short bursts. C is the mA of the mAh rating, so 25C = 25 x 1000mA = 25A. If you abuse the ratings, as a modeller, expect shorter battery life at the least, and destroyed batteries at worst. In regards to PV's, I don't think vaping would be considered continuous discharge, moreso burst or pulse discharge, that is just my observation and not to be considered to have any authority.

To sum it up, continuous and pulse ratings for Lithium batteries are nothing new to RC modellers who have been using them for quite a while. Perhaps it would be safer for vapers if manufacturers gave both continuous and pulse ratings if the battery was intended for vaping. Another step forward perhaps.

Here is an example of lipo labelling in this pic. BTW RC (radio control) modellers are as fanatic about their batteries as vapers, if not moreso. If a given battery "does not deliver the goods" everyone will know about it soon enough. This mod has two 750mAh batteries in parallel, for a total of 1500mAh capacity. 35C continuous and 70C max for a short burst. The atty is 14mm diameter to give a size reference.

Keep in mind that there is no free lunch with lithium batteries in general. If a manufacturer claims a higher pulse or constant discharge current (for the same mAh capacity) then there is going to be a trade-off in weight or size or life cycles or cost, or they have come up with an improved chemistry or battery structure.

Maybe its time that batteries sold specifically for vaping are supplied with a continuous discharge and a pulse rating.

 

[MamaTried]

Maybe its time that batteries sold specifically for vaping are supplied with a continuous discharge and a pulse rating.

if the battery industry standardizes on a pulse rating that ain't pure marketing crap from each separate battery company, then i'm sure all us skeptics will jump on board.

 

[Filthy-Beast]

if the battery industry standardizes on a pulse rating that ain't pure marketing crap from each separate battery company, then i'm sure all us skeptics will jump on board.

Exactly!

What's the max duration of a pulse?
What's the max Duty cycle?
What's the rest required between pulses?

 

[Norrin]

Exactly!

What's the max duration of a pulse?
What's the max Duty cycle?
What's the rest required between pulses?

This and the fact that some manufacturers like to brag is why I stick to continuous. I did read the claimed figures for one battery which would have been well within MY vaping needs, but everyone is different and someone who chains would be in the continuous ratings.

 

[supertrunker]

Ian may be familiar with RC batteries but they are typically stacks of batteries and require special (read expensive) chargers that can also monitor the balance between cells.

I have a good reason to rely on continuous discharge only: If you build a coil based on that - you battery will fire until it runs out. Nothing more.

If you build below that, in the hope that it'll power your coil, that you'll notice if things get hot, it won't vent before you do notice, etc...be my guest!
You are gambling on the manufacturer being honest and not trying to gain some advantage by overstating the battery capability.

That's fine for my car battery (it'll last 5 years sir - sure it will!!), but that's not inches from my face.

T