4mg/ml and Health Insurance

[p.opus]

With the passing of the AHCA, insurance companies have been given free reign to charge Tobacco users up to a 50% surcharge on their health insurance policies, and this surcharge can not be offset by any tax credits you may get.

Already many employers have incorporated Nicotine testing as a condition of employment or determination of insurance premiums.

This is one of the reasons I started vaping. I started at 18mg/ml and went down to 12 and have recently bought 0mg/ml and discovered the complete lack of Throat Hit in 0mg/ml juice. This was something I wasn't expecting.

I am not in any hurry to quit vaping, and I heard that other TH alternatives (such as pepper or cool hit) don't do it. I have until Sept 2014 before I have to be "nic free" but would prefer to stay at 4mg/ml just for that little tingle in the back of your throat.

What I am wondering is 4mg/ml low enough to get under any testing, or is it still enough to pop you as a tobacco user.

I wish this could be challenged in court, but it seems like no one in positions of power gives a crap about vapers. I wasn't expecting a parade, but I figured I'd get some credit for getting off the stinkies.

So has anyone had any experience with vaping with minimal nicotine to provide a slight throat hit, but still be "under the radar" when it comes to cotinine tests?

 

[T0rtitude]

I read that any nic will show up in a test. You might not have to give up nic entirely though. Is it possible to just abstain for a week or so before a test? I don't know if testing is random or scheduled.

 

[Bunnykiller]

but I love my Eggplant and tomatoes... do I have to give them up too??

 

[Completely Average]

Insurance companies test for Cotinine, which is what your body converts nicotine to when it metabolizes the nicotine.

Fortunately, these chemicals don't last in your body for very long. It's not like some drugs which stay in your system for months. Typically you'll have cleaned your system of any nicotine within about 4-6 hours. Continine stays in your system longer, but normally after 72 hours or so it's also undetectable.

Erring on the side of safety, I would say that if you can make it without any nicotine for about 4-5 days before the test then you shouldn't have any problems.



If it's the throat hit you're needing then there are other ways to get that without adding nicotine. More PG will give you a better throat hit, as will using a Low Resistance Atomizer or higher voltages. Menthol, cinnamon, and mint flavors typically have their own throat hit properties as well.

 

[Empi666]

I was told by my nurse who was conducting the nicotine tests for my work that it takes about 6 weeks for your system to be clear.

 

[bacc.vap]

I would'nt temporarily abstain just for the test. You'd get away with it for now and pay less, then when you need insurance to cover something they'd test and you'd be up the creek. Do you think you'd have any chance getting them to look into insurance compnies that are pro vaping. I know, it's a long shot, but there are ins. companies that actually cover switching to ecigs.

 

[Rosenec]

I was told by my nurse who was conducting the nicotine tests for my work that it takes about 6 weeks for your system to be clear.

She is selling you a story.

 

[Papajohns]

Depends on the test.

How long does Nicotine stay in your System, Blood, Urine, Hair and Tests

It's funny because most doctors consider E-cig users as Non-smokers. But of course the insurance companies wont agree with that if there is money involved.

 

[RogerWilco357]

I think the whole thing stinks how can someone tell you that you cannot smoke vape or anything with nicotine down right un American . Nicotine is legal and one of the few vice's available to us. I just don't get it why no one is challenging this in court . Whats next alcohol I say that is next then pop tarts and anything with sugar where does one draw the line?

 

[p.opus]

I think the whole thing stinks how can someone tell you that you cannot smoke vape or anything with nicotine down right un American . Nicotine is legal and one of the few vice's available to us. I just don't get it why no one is challenging this in court . Whats next alcohol I say that is next then pop tarts and anything with sugar where does one draw the line?

You would think that they could come up with a test that detects other tobacco indicators in the blood stream. After all, it's not the nicotine that is providing the health risk, it's the tobacco use.

This would allow people who are using NRT's to be given consideration. If you pop positive for nic use, they test you for some other Tobacco indicator.

It could be challenged in court, but what lawyer is going to take up your case? All the insurance companies have to say is nicotine testing is the most cost effective means of determining tobacco usage, and if a few vapers or NRT users get caught in the web, so be it....

 

[Sucker_dad]

I think personally, this is going to go to court. There are many a Lawyer who will take up the cause if for no other reason than to make a name for him/her self. If you are using Nicorette gum for instance do you have to pay the tobacco users premium? It is ridiculous that our government has decided it is their duty to tell us what we may or may not do for our own protection. For a Country that screems about Freedom, I find it strange that we have the most laws. That is a whole different thread though. Good Luck to the OP.

 

[Papajohns]

For a Country that screems about Freedom, I find it strange that we have the most laws. That is a whole different thread though. Good Luck to the OP.

The American gov hasn't given a rat's ... about freedom since WWII. Laws in this country are passed based on profitability. Welcome to capitalism.

 

[DC2]

You would think that they could come up with a test that detects other tobacco indicators in the blood stream. After all, it's not the nicotine that is providing the health risk, it's the tobacco use.

Such tests already exist...
CO Breath Test – Breath tests for CO – Carbon monoxide breath testers from Breathe EZ.

 

[Topacka]

The American gov hasn't given a rat's ... about freedom since WWII. Laws in this country are passed based on profitability. Welcome to capitalism.

This. Capital-ism
A government based around the accumulation of money. Has nothing to do with people.

 

[p.opus]

There is an "out" if you complete a smoking cessation program, but I wonder if they charge you while you are in the program and then test you the next year. They could claim that since NRT is only a temporary therapy, that by "completing" the smoking cessation program you should be nic free.

It seems none of the insurance companies have any latitude for recreational nicotine use....But more and more of us can smoke other things recreationally. The inmates are running the asylum.

 

[Barbara21]

I think personally, this is going to go to court. There are many a Lawyer who will take up the cause if for no other reason than to make a name for him/her self. If you are using Nicorette gum for instance do you have to pay the tobacco users premium? It is ridiculous that our government has decided it is their duty to tell us what we may or may not do for our own protection. For a Country that screems about Freedom, I find it strange that we have the most laws. That is a whole different thread though. Good Luck to the OP.

There is an "out" if you complete a smoking cessation program, but I wonder if they charge you while you are in the program and then test you the next year. They could claim that since NRT is only a temporary therapy, that by "completing" the smoking cessation program you should be nic free.
It seems none of the insurance companies have any latitude for recreational nicotine use....But more and more of us can smoke other things recreationally. The inmates are running the asylum.

Where the insurance companies are going to run into trouble is that the FDA is on record as saying long-term use of nicotine gums/lozenges is safe.

 

[DC2]

Where the insurance companies are going to run into trouble is that the FDA is on record as saying long-term use of nicotine gums/lozenges is safe.

That is how I am approaching this.

My company has a new tobacco surcharge policy that goes into effect in February.
It would charge me $50 per month if I use tobacco products, including electronic cigarettes.

The $50 surcharge is waived if I enroll in a smoking cessation program.

I am going to enroll in that program, and at the end I am going to say I need to keep using nicotine or I will go back to smoking.
At that point, we are going to find out what happens next, because the policy does not say.

 

[hazarada]

Interestingly enough in my country 4mg/ml is the upper limit of nicotine that is not considered to have any health effects, where they came up with the number i have no idea.

 

[DaveP]

I have to wonder why any company would penalize people for giving up cigarettes in favor of a much safer habit. I also wonder why companies don't test employees for alcohol use. If you go stop by the bar for a beer several times a week, you'd likely fail. But, that would incriminate the higher ups, wouldn't it? The 19th hole is sacred.

 

[Jarbs]

You would think that they could come up with a test that detects other tobacco indicators in the blood stream. After all, it's not the nicotine that is providing the health risk, it's the tobacco use.

This would allow people who are using NRT's to be given consideration. If you pop positive for nic use, they test you for some other Tobacco indicator.

It could be challenged in court, but what lawyer is going to take up your case? All the insurance companies have to say is nicotine testing is the most cost effective means of determining tobacco usage, and if a few vapers or NRT users get caught in the web, so be it....

this would be right up the ACLU's alley