8 watts is 8 watts...right?

[J.R.Wallace]

I am a new vaper. Only been vaping a little over 30 days using evods and a ProTank at 1.8Ω with the standard evod batteries. I'm picking up a pair of Vision Spinners today to start playing with VV vaping. I have a basic understanding of Ohm's Law, but what I do not understand is how this applies to the quality of a vape and battery drain.

Let's take 2 different single coil setups (same equipment/juice just different Ω and V):

Setup 1) 1.8Ω @ 3.8V = 8.02W (2.11A)
Setup 2) 3.0Ω @ 4.9V = 8.00W (1.63A)

Some things I *think* I know:
Heat (BTUs) can be calculated from watts, so I'm assuming the setups above give off the same amount of heat, so roughly the same amount of vapor.
I read somewhere that once you get up much past 2.00A you increases the risk of damaging an atomizer/coil.
Also, (and this is just a guess on my part) since the "volume" of a battery is measured in mAh, I assume that, between 2 setups with the same wattage output, the one with a lower amperage will result in more time vaping between charges.

I understand personal preference plays a lot into vaping setups, but (ignoring the .02W difference) theoretically the above setups should give the same quality of vape, with "Setup 2" resulting in more vape time per charge with less risk to the atomizer/coil.

If this isn't the case, what am I missing or not understanding?

I see a lot of people who seem to prefer coils with lower Ω, even with equipment capable of producing the voltage needed for higher Ω atomizers/coils. If i'm understanding everything correctly, then this doesn't really make sense unless there is something I'm missing. What is it about low resistance coils that makes them attractive?

Sorry for the long post,
Wally

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

The higher the resistance, the lower the amps/current, the longer the battery life, to achieve the same watts. 3.0 Ohm resistance will give you a longer battery life at the same wattage/Power, because less current is required.

 

[J.R.Wallace]

That's what I thought. So what is it about low resistance atomizers that people like. Seems a lot of people like them, but I don't see what the benefit is.

 

[crxess]

Actually you rarely hear from those that have a handle on what is going on with power. They simply sit back and enjoy vaping vor the pleasure and tend to avoid the POWER PUFF debates.

I do not use 3.0ohm coils simple because I like using my eVic and any upward fluctuation of the coil would exceed it's 5v limitation. That said, I do use 2.6-2.8ohm coils quite often.
When using a standard Ego Battery or a Mech Mod I will drop down considerably to anything from 1.5 - 2.2ohms.

Oh, and your assumptions are correct.

ETA - LR coils have been around much longer than Variable voltage has been available to the general vaper. standard voltage batteries give a warmer vape with more load, at a cost of time usage.

 

[WattWick]

It's not all about watts. It's just as much about how much coil you are using those watts to heat.

Actually... just remembered there's a nice thread about this. Here you go

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-not-matter-its-all-about-wire-temp-read.html

Personally, I'm perfectly happy with my 0.8ohm coils on a mech mod. I find they give off vapor quicker than any higher-ohm setups I've used. I like the 2-4 second cig-like puffs.

 

[bikerbeagle]

I think most people who like low resistance atomizers are using mechs and non-vv/vw devices? ...I don't know, I'm sure there are many out there who like/use them without even realizing or knowing why they like/use them - they just heard it somewhere.

 

[KwhyLE]

Interesting. So the battery life depends on the Amps being drawn? Not the Voltage?

What would happen if I twist two 32 gauge kanthal wires and coil it about 7/8 times creating a "micro coil" and creating a 3.0 ohm coil. Setting my provari to 5-5.2V volts will get me around 8-9W @ 1.63-1.73 amps.

Will vapor production be more due to the increased area of wick being in contact with the coil?

 

[WattWick]

There's the vapor production crowd that go for mechs, and there's those (like me) who use mech mods for their shorter-than-baseball-bat form factor. Also, I chose RBAs for the longevity of a setup, not neccesarily their vapor production. But as mentioned, I do prefer the quicker heating. I'm sure I could experiment with stacking batteries and/or increasing voltage through VV mods and achieve a very similiar experience. I just don't feel like it as I'm content with what I got.

... and honestly, I find the thicker wires easier to work with.

 

[StarDose]

I do 2 - 4 second cig puffs on stock heads for all my clearos. If I had a clearo that didn't do that I don't use it anymore and they are 1.8 - 2.4ohm each. My igol is at 2.2ohm and get good short puffs, thicker wire takes a bit to heat up but don't use it anymore myself.

 

[sawlight]

The higher voltage, less amperage is really a misnomer, it sounds good in theory, but it's just a theory! To be able to actually do this you need to start with a battery at a higher voltage than you are going to vape at, otherwise the battery is still seeing the same amperage draw, no matter the voltage setting on the regulation unit, plus you will loose around 15% of your power to the effacy of the regulation circuit.
There was a thread where this was discussed in depth not long ago, I'll try and find it.

 

[WattWick]

Interesting. So the battery life depends on the Amps being drawn? Not the Voltage?

What would happen if I twist two 32 gauge kanthal wires and coil it about 7/8 times creating a "micro coil" and creating a 3.0 ohm coil. Setting my provari to 5-5.2V volts will get me around 8-9W @ 1.63-1.73 amps.

Will vapor production be more due to the increased area of wick being in contact with the coil?

Keep in mind this is (unless you're stacking) a 4.2v battery boosted to 5-5.2v. You're using extra amperage to up the voltage through a boost circuit. On an unregulated battery, you get what the battery delivers, and amperage is all.

 

[tj99959]

That's what I thought. So what is it about low resistance atomizers that people like. Seems a lot of people like them, but I don't see what the benefit is.

The coil heats up faster.
Just because the wattage is the same doesn't mean they will taste the same

 

[KwhyLE]

Keep in mind this is (unless you're stacking) a 4.2v battery boosted to 5-5.2v. You're using extra amperage to up the voltage through a boost circuit. On an unregulated battery, you get what the battery delivers, and amperage is all.

Okay let me get my head wrapped around this. (wrapped, get it? )

Im using AW IMR 18350 batteries. Fully charged they are about 4.2V. If I want the longest life of my battery I should be shooting for around 2ohms and vaping around 8-9W.

For more vapor production I should get lower gauge wire and wrap more coils to achieve a higher ohm?

I dont want to sound like I want to be a cloud chaser, but I wouldn't mind seeing more vapor upon exhaling...

 

[sawlight]

Here's the other thread I mentioned, http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-please-help-me-understand-voltage-thing.html

Okay let me get my head wrapped around this. (wrapped, get it? )

Im using AW IMR 18350 batteries. Fully charged they are about 4.2V. If I want the longest life of my battery I should be shooting for around 2ohms and vaping around 8-9W.

For more vapor production I should get lower gauge wire and wrap more coils to achieve a higher ohm?

I dont want to sound like I want to be a cloud chaser, but I wouldn't mind seeing more vapor upon exhaling...

NO, and no again. The base voltage is 3.7v for most batteries, they start at 4.2 and drop quickly, stabilize out at 3.7 then shut down around 3.5v so ideally a 1.7ohm coil would be the best, in theory.
Vapor production is as much a part of your juice as it is the atomizer, by varying the amounts of PG and VG (I forget which one does what, sorry) you can get more vapor, less throat hit, or less vapor, more throat hit. But it's a trade off just so you know.

 

[KwhyLE]

Here's the other thread I mentioned, http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-please-help-me-understand-voltage-thing.html




NO, and no again. The base voltage is 3.7v for most batteries, they start at 4.2 and drop quickly, stabilize out at 3.7 then shut down around 3.5v so ideally a 1.7ohm coil would be the best, in theory.
Vapor production is as much a part of your juice as it is the atomizer, by varying the amounts of PG and VG (I forget which one does what, sorry) you can get more vapor, less throat hit, or less vapor, more throat hit. But it's a trade off just so you know.

Oh okay, I didnt realise the drop was so quick. But I do vape at 1.7-2.0ohm coils. I have a 1.7/8 ohm coil my IGO-S and a 2.1ish ohm coil on my RSST. I just notice that my IGO-S drops vapor production in my K-101 when my provari says its still has a 3.8V discharge.

Anyways. I do like to vape higher VG juices (which produces more vapor) and Lower PG (I just like a small TH) but even with my 100% VG juice sometimes vapor production is lower than normal.

 

[WattWick]

Not sure how the provari handles things, but I'm guessing the 3.8 reading is not under load.

 

[Thrasher]

Not sure how the provari handles things, but I'm guessing the 3.8 reading is not under load.

the provari uses a load to test the battery.

Oh okay, I didnt realise the drop was so quick. But I do vape at 1.7-2.0ohm coils. I have a 1.7/8 ohm coil my IGO-S and a 2.1ish ohm coil on my RSST. I just notice that my IGO-S drops vapor production in my K-101 when my provari says its still has a 3.8V discharge.

Anyways. I do like to vape higher VG juices (which produces more vapor) and Lower PG (I just like a small TH) but even with my 100% VG juice sometimes vapor production is lower than normal.

one thing not mentioned is the voltage sag with a battery not at full charge. even though a battery is at 3.8 does not mean the voltage released when pressing the button will stay at exactly 3.8. it will fluctuate and sag slightly the longer you hold the button.

in the provari there is a self adjusting circuit that will make sure if you set 3.5v you get exactly 3.5 v til the battery is dead.

in mechanicals this is where mnke batteries shine they have a more consistent drain under load and the sag is less noticeable for a longer period of time. most of the other batteries while being great batteries are being designed with a voltage regulation circuit in mind and then there is no sag .

 

[zoiDman]

...

If this isn't the case, what am I missing or not understanding?

...

Yes... 8 Watts is 8 Watts. No big news hear.

But here's a Questions. Is the hit you take based ONLY on Watts? If it was, then all you would need to consider would be Mathematical Equalities.

But, the hit you get is made up of Many Factors. Some play a Large Role. Some Not so Large.

Get out a piece of Paper a List Every Factor you can think of. Then ask yourself How Does Setup #1 or Setup #2 effect each factor.

I'll give you a start...

Number of Atomizer Coils
Size of Atomizer Wire
Distance between Coils
Size of Coils and Wick Diameter
.
.
.
.
.
Efficiency of you PV at Different Amps.

 

[AttyPops]

^^^^ Yep.

So watts are watts. But they aren't APPLIED the same in all cases. Hence thermodynamics and stuff that probably gets way over my head.

That said, I bet most STOCK stuff uses similar wire. It's when you get into the rebuildable arena and make your own coils that you play with stuff more.

So the watts calc is valid for ballparking, at least for stock stuff. But then some wise .... comes along and finds situations outside the previous norm that's different (like using 28 ga wire). This keeps forums like ECF running forever following changes and new things.

 

[zoiDman]

I'm not a Big RBA-er.

But in my Limited Experimentations, I have found that for the Same Watts, I like the hit from a Atomizer Wire with More Loops.

The Wire is the Same Type of Wire(NiChrome). And the Watts are the Same. But the Hit Taste Better when I have Lots of Loops verses Less Loops. Guess the Hit I'm Looking for is dependent on Surface Area.

Of Course, the Hit I like could be the Direct Opposite from the Hit someone else Likes. So for them, Less Loops might be the Ticket.

But the Logic is the Same. Watts are Watts. But Not Necessarily the Same Hit.