A bit of info i found

[MattB]

Now keep in mind i just got into the game and have been trying to research that exactly PG and VG do to my system. I have to say, i'm not very encouraged by what i found for PG so far. Before i get slaughtered by the mass of you who praise E-Cigs, i very well know how many toxins i'm saving my body from by switching over from analogs, although i find it hard to justify one evil by another. Here is what i mean:

For PG:

The MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) for Propylene Glycol says: May be harmful by ingestion or skin absorption. May cause eye irritation, skin irritation. Chronic exposure can cause gastro-intestinal disturbances, nausea, headache and vomiting, central nervous system depression. (Toxicological profile for ethylene glycol and propylene glycol (update). Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR), 1996. Atlanta, Ga; U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Public Health Service.)

Propylene glycol has been linked to many severe health problems including contact dermatitis (irritation), auto toxicity, kidney damage and liver abnormalities. It has been shown to be toxic to human cells in cultures. (Bulletin of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology, Jan. 1987) In fact, in tests conducted over the years propylene glycol has been shown to inhibit skin cells growth in human tests and cell respiration in animal tests. (J. Pharm. Belg. Nov/Dec 1989). It was found to cause skeletal muscular damage in rats and rabbits (Pharm Res Sept. 1989). It is reported to directly alter cell membranes (Human Reproduction, Feb 1990) to cause thickening of the skin (contact dermatitis, 1987) skin dehydration and chronic surface damage to skin ( Derm. Beruf Umwelt July/Aug, 1988) It was also shown to increase beta activity (changes found in anxiety states) when inhaled. (The Medical Post Sept 27, 1994.)

Propylene glycol is a known irritant and sensitizer causing dryness, erythema (abnormal redness) and even blistering. (Safety Evaluation of a Barrier Cream, Contact Dermatitis, 17:10-12, 1987)

Taken from : What is Propylene Glycol?

According to a 2010 study by Karlstad University, the concentrations of PGEs, propylene glycol and glycol ethers in indoor air, particularly bedroom air, has been linked to increased risk of developing numerous respiratory and immune disorders in children, including asthma, hay fever, eczema, and allergies, with increased risk ranging from 50% to 180%

A Swedish study published in 2010 strongly suggests a connection between airbourne concentrations of propylene glycol in houses and development of asthma and allergic reactions, such as rhinitis, in children.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propylene_glycol#cite_note-33

Taken from : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propylene_glycol

By all means, i hope none of you take this as an attack to the product all of us are here on these boards for. This post was meant as a warning to all of us and is to be taken for information purposes only.

After reading all of this, it's made my decision pretty clear to stick with VG only for my mixes.

My spouse already has asthma, and i in no way want to expose my kids to anything that might affect their health adversly. That was one of the reasons for switching to e-cigs in the 1st place.

Hope this help at least some of you.

Cheers.

 

[bruiser]

Here's some of the latest research:

www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/med...studies-propylene-glycol-aerosol-animals.html

 

[rolygate]

You probably need to do some more research on this, or maybe, look at expert interpretations of the technical data. See this piece:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/177551-pg-vg-peg.html

PG is so safe for inhalation or even injection that there is a very large body of research that says it is safe - in fact, with 70 years of research, it is not only proven safe but there is more research data on it than almost any other material used for consumer/pharmaceutical purposes. Keep in mind it has been used for misting the air in hospitals for periods of years at a time; it is used in asthma inhalers; it is used in lung transplant patients' nebulizers; it is injected into the bloodstream as the carrier for some drugs; and it is licensed for these purposes by the medical licensing authorities in all developed countries. It is regarded as all but inert.

One of the most important things you learn is the MSDS for many everyday materials of this type can be completely ignored. There are many reasons for this, it's another story really.

However, you will also certainly find that some are intolerant to PG, because there is no such thing as a material that everyone tolerates perfectly apart from water. However, in my experience, VG has more issues in this area. This is because, unlike PG, there are multiple entirely different ways of making VG*. PG may cause a sore throat for some, but some types of VG can be a lot more problematic. In fact I'd go so far as to say that some VG used in refill liquid should not be used for this purpose - which in practice, from my perspective, means that if you experience an issue with vaping then one of the very first things you should do is to try other brands of refill as the VG in certain brands will cause problems for some.

Don't take this as criticism of VG - my main vape is 100% VG. It's just that newcomers see some tech info about PG and tend to misinterpret it; but in fact there are probably more issues with VG.


* Coconut oil, palm oil, coconut + palm oil, with/without preservatives, KaOH, NaOH - etc.

Also, the jatropha plant biodiesel byproduct source issue. PG is always synthetic, the main issue is the contaminant percentage; but VG can be made in multiple ways and some should definitely not be used for inhalation product feedstock: biodiesel byproduct glycerine, for example, due to the possibility of contamination by the toxic esters of the jatropha plant, increasingly used in biodiesel production.

 

[bjannr]

I started with using all VG because i thought it would be better/healthier than PG. However somewhere (don't remember where) i read that the components of VG when heated to high temps turns toxic. Then i discovered that PG was used in hospital vaporizers, so now i use a blend of PG/VG. No matter what, it is better than analogs. Safest thing would be to quit vaping, but i do not want to do that. Just had a physical, blood work and BP were better this year after vaping for 13 months than they were last year. I will vape on.

 

[rolygate]

It's true that VG heated to very high temperatures decomposes into acrolein, which is toxic. However, like questions about issues in some MSDS sheets for PG, in reality it is a non-issue.

This is because it is not possible to overheat VG like this in an e-cigarette: if VG is present, the liquid cools the heater element much as the water in a kettle does (remove the water and the element overheats). If the VG has run out, then the element will overheat - but there is no VG present to convert into acrolein.

At the transitional stage it is possible that some acrolein may be produced but tests indicate it is in the parts per trillion range and not significant for health. There is a great deal more acrolein in tobacco cigarettes for example.

In any case, questions of this nature are basically asking, "Are e-cigarettes safe?". There is only one answer to this: they only need to be considerably safer than tobacco cigarettes in order to be a good idea - and we know that is the case. As to whether they are absolutely safe or not - that is simply impossible. The experts say that the risk is somewhere between one-hundredth and one-thousandth of that from smoking cigarettes, and all medics are extremely conservative in these circumstances. No one should be surprised if that risk is finally determined to be a ten-thousandth of that of tobacco smoking.

However, such a determination can only be made in one way: by meta-analyses of multiple surveys on the health outcomes of e-cigarette users after 25 years, as has been done with Snus (see PN Lee's analysis of 61 Snus research studies). Note that even when such studies prove conclusively that a Snus user has the same risk as a non-smoker (someone who is an ex-smoker), and that the difference in health outcome between quitting totally and switching to Snus is so insignificant that it can be ignored, such results will be denied by those with financial motives to do so, and these people normally have the loudest voice.

You can expect the same for e-cigarettes.

 

[MattB]

Seeing any information posted here is taken directly from the internet, such information is always subject to scrutiny. I wont say my findings are any truer than yours, although having found negative effects in my own findings have me tending towards doubting your own, as i'm sure the same goes vice-versa.

Regardless if hospitals use it for various treatments, it wouldnt be the 1st time doctors inject patients with hazardous substances(think about ...... and it's replacement morphine). Even if it has been widely accepted as "safe" by most, seeing this information pulled from studies and medical & health groups, as well as wikipedia cannot simply be ignored. As for the MSDS warning, i dont see why it should simply be shoved aside when it's the most indicative proof i would take that the substance is in fact hazardous.

 

[rolygate]

PG is an inhalable and injectable medicine carrier and consumer product. It has been used by countless millions of people for 70 years. In order to show harm you would need to provide reports of actual cases of harm caused to persons.

Nothing of this nature is 'safe', but it's safer than aspirin. However the dose is the final arbiter between medicine and poison - so inhaling 8 or 10ml of it per day might be thought of as comparable to taking 50 aspirins. Some will be able to tolerate that but some certainly won't, and any form of pre-existing lung condition will exacerbate any problem.

 

[abraxis669]

nevermind.....

 

[spirits3250]

I am asthmatic and use an albuterol inhaler when I have difficulty breathing. My inhaler contains pg. So I guess for medical inhalers it is ok. Can't say if it's ok in other applications....I just know I inhale it everyday for asthma treatment.

 

[braxy29]

mattb, while i am not foolish enough to believe that ecigs are completely safe, keep in mind that msds's are not to be taken without scrutiny either.

when i was in high school (caveat - more than 15 years ago), i did data entry for a company that provided msds's for hospital use. i spent hours a day reading and typing those things in. if i remember correctly, they tended to put a worst-case spin on everything to the point of being laughable. they remind me of the way that pharmaceutical companies will list anything that any subject experienced in a medical trial on their list of possible side effects. you know, when you give a med to 1000 people, one is likely to experience headache (or simply happen to develop a headache that day), so headache is listed as a possible side effect on almost any medication you look at.

msds information is not really accurate in terms of what a user is likely to experience in typical use; the information reads more like lawyers covering their asses, listing everything so there can never be any doubt that users weren't warned. yes, if you drink bleach, you will face any number of horrible effects, all accounted for in gruesome detail. hopefully you aren't stupid enough to drink bleach.

my point in all this is that msds's are another source of information that you should examine critically and thoughtfully, as you would anything else. imho

 

[sln88]

I used to work for a paint company. If you pulled up the MSDS for distilled water, it said it was harmful if swallowed. I guess it is if you consume too much

 

[nopatch]

I am asthmatic and use an albuterol inhaler when I have difficulty breathing. My inhaler contains pg. So I guess for medical inhalers it is ok. Can't say if it's ok in other applications....I just know I inhale it everyday for asthma treatment.

I see in countless posts in various ecig forums that asthma medications in inhalers contain PG but i am yet to come across any mention of a Brandname.

Can you please do a favor and post the Brand name of the inhaler .

 

[nopatch]

Here's some of the latest research:

www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/med...studies-propylene-glycol-aerosol-animals.html

To put things in perspective: that research was conducted with less concentrations of PG(Propylene glycol) at around 5 mg/ml which translates to 0.5% concentration of PG in inhalation.It is difficult to extrapolate the results of that study to vaping since much higher concentrations (More than 10%) of PG used in vaping.

That PG is nontoxic and noncarcinogenic is not in doubt but inhalation is a different ball game altogether.

 

[nopatch]

I used to work for a paint company. If you pulled up the MSDS for distilled water, it said it was harmful if swallowed. I guess it is if you consume too much

It is harmfull to consume distilled water at higher quantities and on regular basis.

 

[BardicDruid]

If it has an MSDS it's an industrial chemical not meant for human consumption of any sort, however PG USP is food/medical grade so since it's meant for human consumption it won't have an MSDS.

 

[bruiser]

My inhaler, Symbicort, contains polyethylene glycol, which is not quite PG. I do know that at least two nasal inhalers contain PG, and they are: Nasarel and Astelin. I have used Astelin on occasion.

 

[bruiser]

Here's a link about PG and lung transplants. Mary Ann Liebert, Inc. - Journal of Aerosol Medicine - 20(4):417

 

[nopatch]

Regarding Mary Ann study of cyclosporine aerolised in Pg:I am trying to get full text to understand the concentrations in Inhalations used for Dogs.Human trial results will be available by the end of the year.

There was a brief human trial with similar composition before,The Findings of which are as below.

The applicant’s 28-day inhalation toxicity study in dogs demonstrated lung irritation as
well, with alveolar and interstitial inflammation observed in all cyclosporine dose groups
and the vehicle control. No sham control was used in this study, thus confounding
separation of the extent of pulmonary toxicity due to CyIS versus that of the vehicle.
Laryngeal inflammation with ulceration was seen in the mid dose group males.
Inflammatory cell infiltrates (lymphocytes, plasma cells or monocytes) were seen in
control and treated groups as well. No additional CyIS-related toxicity was observed.
Dose levels in dogs were limited by the maximum feasible dose but serum cyclosporine
levels in the high dose group exceeded human exposure by 2.5-fold.
The main toxicological issue for this application is lung inflammation due to PG.
Induction of lung inflammation by PG in lung transplant recipients must be weighed
against clinical efficacy of CyIS. The patient, while receiving CyIS with PG chronically
(three times per week), is not exposed to PG daily as were experimental animals and may
receive pretreatment (inhaled lidocaine) to alleviate discomfort.

My comment: No toxicity due to PG but there are other concerns.

 

[nopatch]

Regarding the asthma Inhalers the PG or PEG usage is of the order of not more than couple of MGs per cartridge..The PEG was used as lubricant in small quantities.

With regards to Nasal spray the quantities are also small and there is no inhalation involved.

 

[doglover]

hi ..im new to vaping and have been using green smoke . i was fine for a few days .. then the problems began !at first it was well ..pardon but breaking wind . a bit embarrising been a lady .. i thought its just until i get used to it .. but no . things got worse MUCH worse .. are you ready ???? heart burn severe .. indigestion severe ,,, tummy rumbling so loud then tummy cramps so painful i thought i was going to pass out . real dry skin then the worst ..i got a huge painful blister on my back ..like id been burnt with something ..iv stopped the green smoke and im looking for justVG based product . i know the cigs will kill me eventually but using PG will kill me quicker !!! may i add that i do have allergies but didnt know i was allergic to PG as i wasnt tested for it .. im allergic to nickel .. metabisulphites ... and E numbers 221- 227 ..