A BPA concern with e-smoking?

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TropicalBob

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Jan 13, 2008
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As we dance on the deck of the Titanic, consider the news stories swirling today about a chemical in recyclable plastic most folks call BPA. Here's the lead from one news story:

"The first large study of humans exposed to a chemical widely used in everyday plastics has found that people with higher levels of bisphenol A had higher rates of heart disease, diabetes and liver abnormalities."

So, you ask? Well, what are our cartridges made of? What are our vials of liquids made of? Where are our vials made? (Many manufacturers place triangles with numbers inside them on the bottoms of plastic vials -- a 7 means it has BPA -- our e-liquid vials are not stamped at all; check it out).

Another paragraph:

"BPA is the chemical once studied as a synthetic form of estrogen, but more recently known to leach out of some plastic water bottles and baby bottles, and that is found in all kinds of plastic products."

It leaches worst in a heated or acidic environment. Anyone else think it's highly likely that our e-cig devices, vials and liquid containers are made with BPA? And if you want to get a chemical circulating in the body in the fastest way besides direct injection, you ... INHALE IT.

Then what? Another graf:

"BPA mimics the female hormone estrogen and another recent study suggested it may be implicated in metabolic syndrome – a dangerous combination of high cholesterol, high blood pressure and erratic blood sugar levels.

"Earlier studies have also found a link with cancer, growth defects and neurological problems."

Our FDA in America has passed over scientific studies about BPA, saying the stuff is safe in each instance of use (but does accumulate all day from a variety of food sources containing it, everything from pop soda cans to the cardboard your pizza sits on).

But no group of people besides e-smokers are INHALING BPA a hundred times or more every day, putting this chemical on the fast track to the brain. That's assuming BPA is in the vials, the carts, maybe even the filler material in the carts or the wick that heats under the atomizer. Don't expect manufacturers (who are they?) to supply answers to these questions either.

The last paragraph of this news story said it all as to why this is happening:

"Despite more than 100 studies by government-funded scientists and university laboratories that have linked BPA exposure to health effects in animals, the Food and Drug Administration has deemed it safe, largely on the basis of two studies funded by the chemical industry."

As always, follow the money.
 

TropicalBob

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I had blood drawn Friday and specifically asked that blood PH be tested and results given to me. That's to check on the lactic acidosis possibility. I'm sure there will be no test for BPA, however. I'm a heavy e-smoker and want to know how this is affecting my blood -- but I also follow my lipids and cholesterol every six months. The BPA thing is probably very difficult to ascertain (read: expensive).

I guess the bottom line is we can't say for certain this is safe, or even safer than smoking tobacco. Smoking-related cancers usually take 20 years to develop. How long would it take for BPA to do liver or heart damage? Another unknown .. so we need to stop making unsubstantiated health claims about e-smoking.

As Nike says: Just do it.
 

TropicalBob

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BPA is in far more than clear plastic bottles. I was out earlier this afternoon checking out plastic bottles of all kinds. Turn them over. Look for a triangle. If it says "3" or "7" it's got BPA. If it says "2" it's okay. If it says nothing, don't use it. It's cheap and the manufacturer can't be trusted.

Now look on the bottoms of our liquids' vials. No triangle mark. Look at the cartridges. Plastic. Look at the mouthpiece we suck on. Plastic. This is just another unknown that needs to become a known. If manufacturers wanted to, they could assure us BPA is not used anywhere in our devices.

P.S. The memo said people are stampeding back to glass or metal drinking and food containers.
 
None of my bottles are plastic, thats why it confused me.
Who is selling juice in plastic? maybe we can request they change to glass?

Sitting for a long time in plastic is when it leaches, and I am not sure what a long time is for plastic? Cool dry place, can be pretty long, in the sun, maybe a few hours.
LArge water jugs can sit up to 3 months, or a few weeks, again it depends. For a 1 ounce bottle? unless its full or something real acidic (pure alcohol, might, but it would eat the bottle first) , it would take a Long time to leach out.

The plastic mouth piece and cart is so small, i wouldnt worry about it. Unless your actually chewing and eating it during use, hehe

The sky is always falling, but nothing ever hits the ground.
Every week something will kill you. Is eggs good or bad this week? (with the bacon from the other thread, I can eat :D)

The bottle of water you may have drank, in a lot of cases, has more crap in it to worry more about, then BPA, and sure more then the tiny amounts you may get from these parts.
Now, the baby bottles and food containers, ok, because their system is not developed to deal with it yet.
 
We smoked thousands of cigarettes, some of us just this year, now we are worried what the mouth piece may have come into contact with in the manufacturing process?

I am old enough to remember the PCB scare when i was young. Only cancer I ever heard about was from the land fills where they dumped the transformers they were saveing us from 0_o

I agree that we need to learn as much as we can about the whole E-cig phanominom. Because its not regulated, and because its used as an Inhaler, BUT, thats what makes them good as well, I wont go into the benifits, but the cigarette taxes alone for a month would buy an E-cig in some places.

Its all the nail biteing thats going to get the government to regulate the piss out of these, then we are going to be crying, like we did when they banned smoking from everyplace but your bathroom. (and then Ive heard of ordinances if its a bathroom in an apartment building :( )

Every other post here of late is that these will kill you in some way shape or form.
And its all based on some flimsy study, or news artical, or someone had a pain in while taking a dump 6 months ago, damn (ok exageration)
One thread is even about how E-smokes cause Flatuence, Sheese 0_o

If you people are that afraid of these, send them to me, I can do a case study to see the long term effects on myself, and Ill let you know in 20 years If its safe or not.

*Sorry Bob if i seem to be highjacking, Its not intended, its just, this thread was a good one for a rant :D
 
Every other post here of late is that these will kill you in some way shape or form.
And its all based on some flimsy study, or news artical, or someone had a pain in while taking a dump 6 months ago, damn (ok exageration)
One thread is even about how E-smokes cause Flatuence, Sheese 0_o

It's better not to have your head stuck in the sand. Doesn't matter if the study is flimsy, or somebody farted in Cleveland. This is so new, anything is news. So...if you see a link or have a theory, post it. If it has to do with e-smoking, post the damned thing. That's why this board was created.
 

KatyS

Resting In Peace
ECF Veteran
Kate, I get liver function tests done every six weeks due to an ongoing condition. They have been good with very little varience since I started in April. The doctor who does my liver function test is quite pleased with my results. Breathing is improved 32%. The only problem I have in a wrist ache, and she says thats from all the computer work I have been doing with my web site and this forum lol.
 

Kate

Moved On
Jun 26, 2008
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Yes, to be honest I don't think it's connected with esmoking Katy. I had very high abnormal results a couple of years ago and it was linked at the time to medication I was taking. My liver went back to normal when I changed medication. My sister had the same problem recently so I'm more thinking it's a genetic sensitivity to something other than esmoking.

It's good to hear that you have no problems with your liver function tests, that suggests that it's something unrelated that's affecting me.

I feel much healthier since I stopped smoking and am convinced that vapour is nowhere near as bad for me.

I hope your wrist improves soon.
 

rustylug

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Aug 24, 2008
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T/Bob ... I notice you keep on saying that your a heavy e-smoker .... Im not that heavy on e-smoking' but have cut back by a big amount on real cigs ... So i guess my Q is >>>> Are you now taken to much NIC in to your body? ....I only ask this because i havent had the symptoms you have had.....YET .....Only been at it for 3 month and feel better ...But as you know im also selling the e-cigs ..so ...If YOU cut back on e-cigs would you start to feel better ..... At the end of the day it says in the book >>> To cut back and use weeker Nic carts over a period of time ...... We all go on about our batries not lasting ...Or our Automizers are not working ... etc etc .....But at the end of the day we got to remember that the idea of E-Smoking was to stop smoking ... So i ask >>> Why would the Automizer need to last my life time ..if at the end of the day im planing on stoping both the e-cig and the real cig !!!!!! ......Just a thought :confused:



I had blood drawn Friday and specifically asked that blood PH be tested and results given to me. That's to check on the lactic acidosis possibility. I'm sure there will be no test for BPA, however. I'm a heavy e-smoker
 

TropicalBob

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But at the end of the day we got to remember that the idea of E-Smoking was to stop smoking

Actually, that's incorrect. E-smoking was to be, and still is, an alternative to tobacco cigarette smoking. It is not NRT. It is not a quit-smoking method. Years of testing would be required to certify it as NRT -- and no one is going to pay for that research.

I still use a wide variety of nicotine products - snus, nasal snuff, Stonewall Java tobacco bits, Oliver Twist, three pipes a day and almost constant use of a Janty Kissbox with occasional use of a Ruyan Vegas. Love 'em all.

The truth is that I feel like a poster child for that 60s anthem, "I Cain't Get No Satisfaction." Certainly not from e-smoking at high-nic levels. I get .. nothing. E-smoking helps the habit part of my problem. It doesn't begin to give me a nicotine lift. No, I can't get Pillbox 36mg in the U.S. I use the highest I can get. It's not high enough.

Only the snus can knock me out with nicotine, so I'm careful using the stuff. But I don't get satisfaction from it, either.

I have no desire to quit e-smoking. I do it to avoid inhaling tobacco smoke into my lungs. If I could do that without likely consequence, I would. But I can't. Like Trog, I developed a steady smoker's cough. It disappeared when I quit cigarettes.

E-smoking is wonderful, don't get me wrong, but it certainly isn't smoking. It's sucking damp, flavored air. I've been doing that since January, and I'm still waiting for that "oh wow" moment when I decide this is really better than the 30-a-day I smoked for 50 years.

Hasn't happened yet.
 

Schroedinger's cat

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Oct 19, 2008
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I don't know the particular study Tropical Bob started the thread with, but there are some issues that have to be taken into consideration. I know litle about BPA, but I am an epidemiologist (the last smoking one in the US, foru sure...).
It is very possible that people with the highest levels of BPA are those who eat worse - for example by nuking plastic trays of relatively unhealthy food in their microwave, where the BPA would get in their food and thus be found in blood to a higher degree. Or they could be consuming more soft drinks from plastic bottles. If that were the case, they would be at higher risk of the disease mentioned in that article because of the foods and drinks, and BPA would be in higher concentration intheir bodies without having caused any of their ills. Even though studies try to control for factors that may confound the associatoin, it is really hard to do so properly. So, while the concern about BPA cannot be dismissed because of this, I am not so sure that they study proved that BPA was part of the etiology for these illnesses rather than a coincidence.
A study of inhalation of BPA in rats showed some irritation and hyperplasia of their airways after a few weeks - I don't know the details. However, the rats were exposed to 50 or 150 mg/m3 for 13 weeks, and that seems a way higher dose than what we could get from some BPA leeching into a cart. We are not, however, rats.
 
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