A call for an information movement - down with shady companies

[nlaq]

Hey guys!

So I've been thinking a lot about vaping companies who have been taking advantage of people. Since information is very difficult for an outsider (or even a person who's been doing this for a few months :/) to get their hands on, it becomes very easy for companies to take clones, brand them, and sell them at outrageous prices.

I'm not against clones whatsoever: as long as those clones are actually marked as clones. So this post isn't about the Chinese knockoffs - we all know what we're getting ourselves into when purchasing them - nor about 1 to 1's (as long as the person you purchase it from is clear about the origin of the product).

I'm talking about companies like vaporfi (formerly VaporZone).

This is one company that has come up in my own research when looking for devices, and from the looks of it they plant reviews all over the Internet and sell re-branded clones. I can't find a single honest review, outside of their website, that doesn't look like it was from a press kit.

Here are a few examples:
VaporFi (SVD)
VaporFi (Pro Tank 2)
VaporFi (ZNA)
http://www.vaporfi.com/electronic-cigarettes/vaporfi-pro-starter-kit-colors.html (EVOD)

Those are the ones that jumped out at me, anyway.

This just strikes me as almost criminal. I don't want to suggest that, since real clones are perfectly OK in my book; but you have to admit this is shady.

What can we do about this?
It's easy to say that it's the consumer's responsibility; but with more and more (and more) people getting into vaping with the expectation that things like this shouldn't happen, it starts to be a threat for our (vapers') legitimacy. If a person buys one of these and finds out that they were ripped off by almost paying double for something; what kind of confidence would be left in their minds about purchasing from a reputable company?

This forum is a great source of information with plenty of guides and whatnot, but they are simply not as accessible to an average consumer. Because average consumers don't go on forums. I like that this is a community of great people who don't push their builds or preferences on others'. I've seen people here who are in love with their ego twists and cigalikes, and the fact that I haven't seen a single comment bashing their setups (or other setups) is a really good indication about the people here. But again: a community of kind enthusiasts is not what we need to bring to light the kind of nefarious companies that are basically stealing money from other consumers.

Here's what I'm thinking: people within the vaping community need to start pointing these things out. I haven't been on this forum for very long (at all), but this community seems very level headed - it could be a great place to start some sort of information movement that could bring quality information to the public. Not to the kinds of people who are already watching Rip Trippers and whatnot; I mean your grandma, your friends, your family - who aren't, and maybe never will be, vaping enthusiasts.

There are so many great introductory to intermediate/advanced devices out there; but for every Innokin or Kanger, there's a VaporFi. Let's face it: Innokin and Kanger suck at advertising and they don't manipulate search results. Considering I hadn't heard of them before entering a vape shop, yet had already heard of VaporFi and Blu et all - this is a problem.

How can we collect and organize some sort of front-facing portal for electronic cigarettes? How could we construct it in such a way so that it has no ulterior motive, to prevent money and personal preferences from corrupting it? And how can we get enough people together to push it?

It would be a shame if quality vaping was only accessible to enthusiasts.

 

[James Wilson]

With me when I am unsure of something I find myself asking people on here. You can get more honest answers out of people on here then you can a lot of websites. If a site seems shady I won't order from it. It is that simple. As for B&M stores, well the shady ones of those are usually easy to spot as soon as you walk in. lol. You can also discover a lot by talking to the person running it. You can tell right away if they know what they are talking about. If they got a pack of analogs in their shirt pocket or something I immediately see that as a red flag. Many are just in it for the extra money and for me when I see that pack of analogs I see it as a person that really isn't that experienced with vaping themselves. Though they will try to put on a good act when showing off their gear they are trying to sell. A lot of times it is crappy stuff though and it is obvious they don't really know a lot about it. lol

 

[nlaq]

With me when I am unsure of something I find myself asking people on here. You can get more honest answers out of people on here then you can a lot of websites. If a site seems shady I won't order from it. It is that simple. As for B&M stores, well the shady ones of those are usually easy to spot as soon as you walk in. lol. You can also discover a lot by talking to the person running it. You can tell right away if they know what they are talking about. If they got a pack of analogs in their shirt pocket or something I immediately see that as a red flag. Many are just in it for the extra money and for me when I see that pack of analogs I see it as a person that really isn't that experienced with vaping themselves. Though they will try to put on a good act when showing off their gear they are trying to sell. A lot of times it is crappy stuff though and it is obvious they don't really know a lot about it. lol

But my point isn't about how you or I can tell if something is shady - nor is it that we have access to a community of knowledgeable people. My point is that many people can't tell if something is shady, nor do they even know about (or care about) a forum.

It's hard to step into the mind of someone who is ignorant about a topic; even for me (I'm a programming instructor and do this for a living). But that level of empathy is what this industry lacks. These companies like VaporFI get it. They know what their consumers don't know, and act on that (lack of) knowledge. I think we have a responsibility to correct this - because the best mod/atty companies out there don't have a clue how to market or sell anything outside of an enthusiast market.

Blu does. VaporFI does. If we want this industry to become something more than a market for enthusiasts, we have to start learning.

 

[James Wilson]

But my point isn't about how you or I can tell if something is shady - nor is it that we have access to a community of knowledgeable people. My point is that many people can't tell if something is shady, nor do they even know about (or care about) a forum.

It's hard to step into the mind of someone who is ignorant about a topic; even for me (I'm a programming instructor and do this for a living). But that level of empathy is what this industry lacks. These companies like VaporFI get it. They know what their consumers don't know, and act on that (lack of) knowledge. I think we have a responsibility to correct this - because the best mod/atty companies out there don't have a clue how to market or sell anything outside of an enthusiast market.

Blu does. VaporFI does. If we want this industry to become something more than a market for enthusiasts, we have to start learning.

All blu understands is how to rip off their customers. They aren't worth what they cost. Most cigalikes are created to target the smokers who are looking to switch. People are don't know about the good options. Blu is just as guilty of this as any other shady site owner. The only way to stop people from getting ripped off is to inform them. When I first considered switching over, I only looked at cigalike reviews. Mostly because I was searching google using the term E-Cig and those are what usually come up. What good vapes did come up to me looked way too overwhelming for me to even consider. Luckily I did start with Vuse. Eventually searching for info led me here and from there I got a good vape. I am still rather new to vaping and on anything I am not sure I understand or am not sure is a good deal, I ask people on here. People are not going to become better informed though unless 2 things happen.

1. The person switching to vaping actually researches stuff and ask questions when they are unsure of something. Which doesn't happen a lot because many people have issues admitting they need help so they don't want to ask..

2. We as vapors reach out to people who are interested in this and help to teach them.

As long as people remain naive and uninformed they are more likely to get ripped off. We can only do so much to help them. I have always been Leary of stuff online as it is. I have shopped on amazon a lot in the past and ebay a few times so I have learned to spot scam artist a little better. Unfortunate there are still many people who do get ripped off by these very same people I have learned to avoid. I took the time to learn though and admit when I need help. These other people who haven't though will likely continue to get ripped off until they do the same. In the meantime what we can do is try to spread word of these shady sites and stores trying to rip people off.

 

[nlaq]

All blu understands is how to rip off their customers. They aren't worth what they cost. Most cigalikes are created to target the smokers who are looking to switch. People are don't know about the good options. Blu is just as guilty of this as any other shady site owner. The only way to stop people from getting ripped off is to inform them. When I first considered switching over, I only looked at cigalike reviews. Mostly because I was searching google using the term E-Cig and those are what usually come up. What good vapes did come up to me looked way too overwhelming for me to even consider. Luckily I did start with Vuse. Eventually searching for info led me here and from there I got a good vape. I am still rather new to vaping and on anything I am not sure I understand or am not sure is a good deal, I ask people on here. People are not going to become better informed though unless 2 things happen.

1. The person switching to vaping actually researches stuff and ask questions when they are unsure of something. Which doesn't happen a lot because many people have issues admitting they need help so they don't want to ask..

2. We as vapors reach out to people who are interested in this and help to teach them.

As long as people remain naive and uninformed they are more likely to get ripped off. We can only do so much to help them. I have always been Leary of stuff online as it is. I have shopped on amazon a lot in the past and ebay a few times so I have learned to spot scam artist a little better. Unfortunate there are still many people who do get ripped off by these very same people I have learned to avoid. I took the time to learn though and admit when I need help. These other people who haven't though will likely continue to get ripped off until they do the same. In the meantime what we can do is try to spread word of these shady sites and stores trying to rip people off.

I'm mostly talking about option 2 in this post. Building up a clean website with good information isn't difficult - and by circulating it around the Internet (getting this and other communities behind it, as well as the YT personalities), it could get enough of a search engine boost as to actually show up near the search results that would lead somebody to a shady dealer. Hell, throw some advertising on it, get the decent vapor companies involved - and it could be very effective at stopping misinformation.

It's just an idea, anyway.

 

[James Wilson]

Well if I ever see anyone asking about vaping on facebook I plan on pointing them to this forum right here. There is no better source of info. But if you want to create your own website with a wealth of information I say go for it. It would be a good thing. Though a pretty massive undertaking.

 

[sedition]

I don't talk to many people about vaping through my day, but those I have I've pointed here. I've been thinking for a while that a buddy/mentor system may be a cool idea for those keen to help out new vapers, and those who are a bit lost with all the information that's out there. I'm definitely down for it.

As for VaporFi, I think it's a sad but unavoidable reality. I'd imagine they have some kind of license in place with the companies so they can rebrand their stuff - they wouldn't be the first business to do it.

 

[ronnbert]

That is why quality B&Ms is a must. I believe that over time (and impending FDA regulation, not that I am in favor of any regulation more than making vaping 18+ and small quality control on e-liquids such as using all USP certified ingredients in a clean environment to ensure people aren't selling liquid at flea markets they mixed in their trunk 5 minutes before) these shady B&Ms and flea market dealers will be dwindled out by their lack of drive to maintain quality product. I actually work at a B&M that strives to do right for each and every customer. We don't push the latest and greatest product, but instead try to find the best product to meet their needs. We also make sure that people interested in mechs and dripping do their homework so they vape safely (I always point them here to do their learning). Time and time again we get people coming in from other shops in the area, complaining about their "pushy salesman" atmosphere, exhorbant mark-ups, and inferior equipment. Some B&Ms have even recommended our shop to some of their customers who weren't too satisfied (which I think says a lot for our reputation when competitors recommend us).

Anyways, the point I am going for is that new vapers more often than not prefer to walk into a shop and buy their gear instead of the hassle of making sure to order the right gear and learn about what they need. I was like that and still am. I like the ability to put my hands on a product before purchasing it, and most of my purchases still happen offline. While I understand there may be a wider variety and better prices available online, I still believe in supporting local businesses when possible and love the ability to bring something home immeadiately after purchase.

In closing, I think good, quality B&Ms are pretty benificial for vapers just starting out. Stores with ethical employees who are willing to help point them in the right direction and give them honest feedback about products, and quality support for when a product isn't functioning properly.

 

[msingletary]

That is why quality B&Ms is a must.

I wholeheartedly agree with ronnbert. My local B&M has an outstanding crew working there. They helped my pick out my first set and walked me through it. They didn't try pushing items I didn't need or wasn't ready for. I primarily buy online now, but I still buy juice and other items from them, as well as direct others to them, to support the business.

 

[Baditude]

Some battery companies are deceptive in their marketing techiques. Take for example the Efest purple batteries. Efest rewraps cells from other manufacturers and slaps on their own purple wrapper. Nothing wrong with this, as many reputable companies do this (AW, Orbtronics, Xtar). However, Efest over-rates some of these batteries by overstating the specs as being better than the original cell. The print on the label the 2500mah battery is 35 amps, but the manufacturer of that cell (LG18650HE2) states it is only 20 amps. The print on the label of the 3100mah battery claims it is 20 amps, but independent testing of that cell (Panasonic18650BE) states it is less than 6 amps.

Purple Efest Batteries Not As Advertised