A Cigar Lover's perspective...

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This is written mainly for Cigar Smokers or Pipe Smokers that for whatever reason might be interested in Personal Vaporizers (PVs aka E-Cigs, although I'm not a particular fan of the term "e-cig".)

I suppose first I'll tell you that I am a pretty well seasoned cigar smoker. I do not nor have not smoke(d) cigarettes regularly, although I did enjoy a rather occasional Camel or Turkish blend cigarette. I looooove cigars though. I typically smoke about 2-3 sticks a day. Been doing so for quite some time and my humidors are always stocked and aging specific sticks. My wife wanted me to kick the habit, or at the very least cut back due to having the kids around. I think she was also getting tired of the ash and after-odor. Anyway she bought me a Vaporzone Pro Starter kit for me and 3 e-liquid flavors from the same vendor. Specifically, these flavors were Cuban Cigar, Swisha (a simulation of hookah tobacco), and Bourbon.

Now, obviously I was (and still am to a certain degree) skeptical. The subtle nuances of a really good cigar are amazing if you are into that kind of thing, and I have a really hard time believing that can be artificially reproduced. That being said, I gave it a go anyway, as my wife brought up an interesting point...I often compliment and describe my stogies as having particular flavor profiles such as nutty or espresso, for example an Alec Bradley Black Market having a creamy texture with essence of cocoa and a subtle hint of cherry with delicate tobaccos. She pointed out that these "flavors" can be purchased directly and asked what would be the difference? Well, I was kind of stumped and didn't want to sound like a pompous ... so I decided to find out what exactly the differences were so I could argue the topic better.

Well after experimenting a little bit, and browsing these forums as I did so, I thought I would share these experiences so anyone else in a similar boat would hopefully have a reference of some sorts. I am not going to give full reviews on the e-liquids I have tried, as I am a beginner myself and probably wouldn't be able to do a great job and such reviews are kind of beyond the scope of this anyway.

I can tell you though that the Cuban Cigar e-liquid from Vaporzone doesn't taste remotely like a Cohiba. Not even a Red Dot. Not even any cigar for that matter. It tastes artificial and almost grape like. So that was strike number one, and honestly almost made we walk away completely. I was pretty turned off.

However I stayed my course and tried the Bourbon next. To be honest I was surprisingly impressed. It didn't really capture the depth of a good Bourbon but it tasted like a generic Bourbon would, although not quite as pronounced...kind of vapory, if that doesn't sound ironic.

At any rate I felt confident trying the last one and took a few pulls from the Swisha. It tasted pretty good. Something I could definitely enjoy, but not very complex, but a stronger flavor than the bourbon...but compared to my stogies...still quite light.

I should mention that I only had one flavor shot per Bottle of E-Liquid I tried. (Vaporzone apparently lets you add up to 3 shots.) If you really enjoy your cigars, I'd probably recommend upping the flavor shot to 2, although do so at your own risk as I haven't tried this yet but if I purchases from Vaporzone again I certainly plan to.

I also went for 36mg Nicotine strength using the logic that a cigar smoking session would be about on par with this level. In all honesty I'm not entirely sure if the nicotine absorption is the same, but I actually plan to step down a notch as the level was just a little bit much, but not terribly so. If you are into Bold or Full Flavor stogies, it's pretty close and while I do enjoy Fulls, they don't really do it for me as an everyday smoke. This might be an area that you have to play with, but I would definitely see it as a pro in favor of vaping. If there's a flavor you like then you can adjust the strength to simulate a mild, med, or full depending on your personal preference when you sit down to puff. It would obviously require multiple bottles of the same flavor with varying nicotine strengths, but these bottles are about on par with the cost of a single or in same cases a couple decent stogie(s), but you could probably get around 40 to 60 sessions out of a single bottle (30ml) depending on the shape and size stogie you are attempting to emulate.

As far as "smokability", I found the vapor experience to be fairly close to the smoking experience. Personally I think I would prefer much more and thicker vapor than what the Vaporzone Pro seems to offer, but there might be multiple other factors involved that I need to do more research on. I don't inhale, but I am an avid retrohaler and the vapor can definitely stand up to the task, even allowing some extra flavor characteristics to kick in as you would expect. The experience even without inhaling was satisfying (although not so much with the Cuban Cigar flavor).

I would also enjoy a much more complex flavor profile of the e-liquids. The ones I have are a nice novelty, but seem rather simple compared to what my palette is used to. I have had some people on these forums recommend natural extracts in e-liquid form, which I most definitely plan to investigate.

All in all I would compare my entire experience to having a good cigar at about a 6.5 out of 10. I have certainly had worse cigars, but I think most aficionados would get bored with the flavors I tried pretty quick, as I know I did and found myself swapping between Bourbon and Swisha on the fly to try to add a bit more to the session. Despite it having the reputation for being a more "advanced" technique for vaping, I would suggest a drip set up pretty much from the get go to come close to the real experience with changing flavors, although with other more natural extract blends this might be a non-issue using a cartomizer or a tank setup, I really can't say.

So, to break it down....


Pros
This will pretty much let you home in on just about any flavor you want to experience
You can, for the most part, dial in on your nicotine preference on the fly
The vapor seems like it can emulate actual smoke fairly well, but you'll likely desire something capable of producing rich & thick clouds from the get go
Retrohaling works as it should
Some liquids still offer an aroma when vaped, although it doesn't seem to be nearly as strong.

Cons
The flavors I tried were simple, and often sweet, requiring to change liquids on the fly to get a well rounded satisfied "smoke".
The vapor doesn't have much bite, if you enjoy a decent bite. Although the retrohale did give a nice nasal bite on some liquids, though likely from the high nicotine i used. This could also be flavor dependent.


I'll revisit this later on after I get a chance to explore more options. Hopefully this helps!
 

footbag

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I've been a long-time cigar smoker. My humidor is full of rarities and aging ISOMs. More then I'll need in my lifetime.

It's very difficult to equate the nuances in cigar flavor to those of e-juice. Why? Well, cigars get their nuanced flavors from the soil they are grown in. I have found that, with a few notable exceptions, that cigars from the same country have similar flavor profiles. E-juice, on the other hand, are made with artificial flavorings. If the cigars were flavored, that would be easy, but they are not. They just have slight nuances of that flavor. I never liked pipes or flavored cigars because they had that "fake" taste to me.

Even now, I've yet to find an e-juice that doesn't taste artificial.

When it comes to E-juice, I have a hard time finding one I like. I'm currently vaping Dekang 555, but not because it tastes like cigs, just because I like the taste.

I will always prefer a good cigar to a vape.
 

UnclePsyko

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Langdell

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Welcome to the vaping fold! I came to vaping from a somewhat similar background--like you, I was never a habitual cigarette smoker; I am a longtime pipe smoker. (I say "am" because I still smoke pipes daily and have no intention of quitting completely. But I have dramatically reduced the amount of real smoking I do compared to a few years ago.)

Here's a tip based on my experience: if you let yourself do it, you will discover over time that vaping can offer unique pleasures of its own that you will come to enjoy in their own right. When I first started vaping (which I did twice actually--long story) I was aiming to emulate pipe smoking as closely as possible, which I had some decent success with. That's now less of a concern to me. Oh, I do still tend to favor tobacco-flavored juices and especially those that remind of pipe tobaccos I would enjoy smoking. But I find myself judging the vaping experience more and more on whether it's "a good vape" to me rather than how closely it resembles smoking a pipe. (One aspect of this is that my preference in mods for daily use has changed. At first I was drawn primarily to pipe-style mods, but I have learned that I prefer the convenience of being able to vape all day on an 18650 battery, which requires a differently shaped mod. But you are in luck here since mods that take 18650 batteries already resemble cigars. :) )
 
Have either one of you gentlemen visited the http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/general-e-liquid-discussion/274904-natural-tobaccos.html thread yet? Here you can get all the current information on some outstanding Pipe and Cigar juices known!
I, myself only vape NET's (Naturally Extracted Tobacco) and while I don't come from a cigar/pipe tobacco background, I am really enjoying the experience.

I plan to delve more into this, as my experience thus far has definitely piqued my interest. Do you have any personal recommendations?
 

footbag

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Have either one of you gentlemen visited the http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/general-e-liquid-discussion/274904-natural-tobaccos.html thread yet? Here you can get all the current information on some outstanding Pipe and Cigar juices known!
I, myself only vape NET's (Naturally Extracted Tobacco) and while I don't come from a cigar/pipe tobacco background, I am really enjoying the experience.

I have tried a few NET's. Much like all of the juices I don't care for, I can see why people like them; but they're not for me. I'm tough on juice though. I like 1 in 20 I try.

To be honest, nothing is going to replace a cigar for me. Cigars are different. It's not just about the cigar, it's about relaxing and enjoying everything. And if you enjoy flavor profiling, it's a great way to work your sense of taste.

So I look at vaping as a seperate experience. It replaced cigs, but it's different experience as well. It's really opened up a lot of opportunity with the flavor diversity. You aren't pigeonholed into aiming for one experience. Very interesting things to come!
 
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UnclePsyko

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I plan to delve more into this, as my experience thus far has definitely piqued my interest. Do you have any personal recommendations?

My favorite vendor as of now is www.Naturally-Extracted-Tobacco.com, e-liquids for electronic cigarettes or as it's mentioned around here... NETcom.

There are however dozens of vendors that extract in house such as...
Quick nic's Slow Brewed NET's
House Brewed (Net) Eliquid | Goodejuice
Custom E-Liquids : Heathers Heavenly Vapes, Top Quality Custom E-Liquids
want2vape
Ahlusion Liquids

NETcom and Want2Vape are outstanding (my opinion, obviously) and my go-to vendors. But both have pretty long shipping times, sometimes up to 2 weeks depending on any sales they are running... both are small family businesses but worth the wait.

QuickNic and GoodeJuice ship same day most of the time.

Ahlusion and Heather's Heavenly get rave reviews on the Natural Tobacco thread... and that thread is dedicated to NET's only.
 
To be honest, nothing is going to replace a cigar for me. Cigars are different. It's not just about the cigar, it's about relaxing and enjoying everything. And if you enjoy flavor profiling, it's a great way to work your sense of taste.

I may need to recruit you to have a conversation with my wife! :)
 

tj99959

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    There is only one way to get the flavor of burning tobacco, and that is to burn it. So the thought of finding an e-liquid that tastes like Jamaican tobacco, or Honduras tobacco is a pipe dream (pun intended).

    There is no shortage of different flavor of e-liquid, find one that you like, and don't worry about trying to find what can't be duplicated.
     
    There is only one way to get the flavor of burning tobacco, and that is to burn it. So the thought of finding an e-liquid that tastes like Jamaican tobacco, or Honduras tobacco is a pipe dream (pun intended).

    Challenge accepted! :2cool:

    No seriously though, despite this most likely not replacing my cigar hobby, I am pretty determined at this point to find some deeper, richer, more complex flavors that make for nice pseudo smoking sessions. I refuse to believe all of this hype surrounds a past time that has such two dimensional, boring flavors that I have experienced...especially from a largely converted smoking subculture.
     

    minimalsaint

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    There is a sub forum in the DIY forum here that deals with extracting your own flavoring from tobacco. Essentially chopping up one of your sticks and soaking it in PG or VG, then using the strained liquid as a flavoring base in your DIY liquids.
    I have tried a simple heat extraction with a few pipe tobaccos and the results were very good. I found a lot of the true flavors in the tobacco come through nicely in the finished product.
     

    spaceballsrules

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    If you want juice flavors that will bridge the gap between cigars and vaping, I have the source!

    There are 2 vendors that spring to mind immediately when it comes to cigar flavors.

    The first is Vermillion River. They offer only 2 juices that you might be interested in, but they are true cigar flavors with some very nice subtle nuances that you will probably appreciate. Check out Poker Blend and Game Night. Classic Tobaccos

    The second is Want2Vape, which offers a very distinctive line of natural tobacco extracts that are sure to please. Their Premium line offers 4 different cigar flavors. Premium Tobacco
    They also have a line of Signature Blends. Only one is a cigar extraction, but the pipe and cigarette extractions are as close to a true burning tobacco experience as you can get. Signature Blends

    I would be remiss if I didn't mention a few other vendors that have some high quality tobacco extracts.
    Mountain Oak Vapors - Gold Label
    Ahlusion - Aromatic Blends and Non-aromatic Tobaccos
    GoodEJuice - All Natural and Flavor Infused tobaccos

    All of these vendors are mentioned in the Natural Tobacco threads, and should give you more than enough of a starting pint to wet your proverbial whistle. Enjoy! :vapor:
     

    cramptholomew

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    Bshollow:11763846 said:
    Not even gonna attempt all the fancy electro-gageteering i've seen. That is all well over my head.

    That's what I thought too. At 6 months in, I have pretty much run the gamut. The fancy electro-gadgeteeting is where those bigger thicker clouds are at. It's actually very simple stuff if you just do a bit of research. I'm no cloud-chasing risk taker, but I do want good performance and good flavor, and getting a little fiddly and hobbyish is somewhat required for that. Besides, you sound like someone with not only a discerning pallette, but who would really appreciate what the nuances of fine tuning your vape bring to the table.

    Also, take a look at Five Pawns. That's some crazy liquid. Expensive, but they do stuff like "aging in oak barrels", if you're into that sort of thing.

    The thing to remember is that this is not smoking. Period. It's a completely different habit/hobby/appreciation all to itself. If you can accept that, then the sky's the limit.
     
    I suppose the hardest thing to convey is the way a cigar or some pipe tobacco changes flavor as it is smoked. This is due to several factors, from how the filler was rolled with the binder to the level of resin that builds as you smoke and how it all interacts with the wrapper (the leaf that gives the cigar its appearance, but also a lot of flavor). So the entire experience can get fairly complex tasting as you go. Things like how often you pull from it and how much ash you allow to accumulate affects the heat which can also affect the flavor as well. So as you can kind of gather, it can be a rather lush experience for your taste buds. I don't really see how a vaporizer can offer something like that, at least from one juice as it would seem the flavor profile is going to be fairly identical with each and every pull. It'd be interesting to see some mods designed that "drip" slightly varying flavors at random into the atomizer which would help simulate this...perhaps from a pool of 3 to 5 "mini-tanks". Of course it would only work well to simulate this if you had "liquid packs" designed to compliment each other in this way.

    Of course maybe some of the natural extracts can do a good job all on their own in this regard, however until I can experiment with them (which I most certainly plan to do) I will remain skeptical. This is about the only real bummer I have experienced that truly disappoints me. Everything else seems "tweakable". So while I realize this isn't smoking, and there is plenty of potential to enjoy this, until you get that kind of..."automatic variation" experience it probably seem incomplete to me.

    This isn't to say vaping doesn't have its own wonderful potentials, but while it might be able to replace cigarettes for many folks, it is currently, from my very limited experience, not capable of reproducing an experience sought after by cigar lovers. Thus probably the reason why so many call the devices E-Cigs. I say this with caution though, as I have limited experience and have yet to take the plunge into natural extracts. This could all change given time and experimentation, but I wanted to share my first impressions as that will likely be all most cigar smokers will really give this, if at all.
     

    GoodNews!

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    Oh wow, it's Good News Jr.

    (Dude's grammar is exactly like mine... it's like reading one of my own posts...)

    Without a doubt, I believe you'll really find some pretty extraordinary interest in NET's. Wonderful stuff. Sadly, they work on almost nothing. Nor does anything in the vaping world really work right. If you have a good tongue about you, the honest truth is that you may have the curse of really having to study the horrid topic of rebuilding coils - that complex looking mess everyone sees on Youtube. However, surprisingly enough, it's safer than buying any e-cig from the corner gas station, and it's surprisingly easier than working at your job to pay for countless faulty kits and beginners vaping tools.

    Then, on top of that, the other awful truth is that this forum, at times, is about as helpful as a salt shaker to a snail. The information for everything is so scattered and contradictory around here that no one learns anything. In a couple weeks, if I accomplish the daunting task of rebuilding my own atomizer, I will be posting probably the most detailed post in the history of ECF, comparing wicking material, coils, sizes, shapes, prices, cleaning steps, builds, airflow holes, all that, giving the user an exact (and cheap as crap) list of the exact items down to the tee that they can purchase all from just one (or possibly two) websites, no other steps whatsoever other than assembling the pieces and using the website tools, to get a standard, clean, satisfactory vape.

    Until then, I'd say with the cleaomizers, cartomizers, and stuff like that, because of simple build mechanics, NET's probably won't work 2 seconds in those, and probably wouldn't taste good even on the very first puff - I tried it, many times. NET's require very strict standards for the devices that can handle 'em, and most of the pre-built, easy devices barely manage to handle the thinnest, cleanest of juices, if they do at all. It's really something that you are getting a decent experience so far from a normal devices and normal juice - all my devices ended up tasting like burnt wall insulation on the normal cheap devices, I couldn't even enjoy normal juices on them - but for normal devices, the normal tobaccos are probably going to be the extent of it that'll work. Doesn't hurt to try though, you can always buy an NET, test it on whatever you please, and maybe by some miracle it'll taste great - worst case scenario, it'll taste burnt or just taste really weird. And then you can let the bottle steep til you know what to do with it, doesn't hurt to store it a long time, only makes it better usually.

    Concerning synthetic tobaccos, to me, they're pretty darn crappy. I only like some of them because I sort of have an emotional attachment to the taste of dry skin (as a toddler, I refused to suck on pacifiers, the only thing that really soothed me was like, nibbling on my grandma's elbow skin - weird fact, but my grandma thought it was the funniest thing) and the synthetic tobaccos have that weird element of sort of a dry skin type taste that actually draws me in. Other than that, they're pretty crappy.

    Chocolate juices are really hard to get to work on most vaping devices too, but if you want to try it, chocolate juices are such a better substitute for tobacco than synthetic tobacco. The similarities are pretty darn striking. The chocolates, when working, present themselves as a rich, full, deep brown-chocolate flavor that doesn't have the bitterness or rancid tastes of the synthetic tobaccos, and if you sort of imagine it in a new light, the chocolate flavors are pretty much the next best thing to an NET IMO. It provides that full, brown experience that at least reminds one of watching a Lord Of The Rings film or something. Combined with the right situation, the right imagination, and the right device, the chocolate juices are pretty darn heavenly too. I've had the experience that a lot of them burn right away in normal devices though. They are tricky.

    Basically, IMO, vaping is just as complex as keeping a humidor to put cigars in, if not way moreso. Elsewise, it's like smoking a Black 'n Mild. To me, Black n' Milds taste like chemical shoepolish, and pretty much any easy thing in the vaping world does to.

    However, I'm checking out Vaporzone as we speak though, I'm always looking for something easy that actually delivers flavor like it's supposed to, instead of that nasty burnt sock taste. Always on the lookout, I'm confident that I'll eventually run across something actually easy that really does work generally well with the standard, easy juices.

    The way I'd describe an NET, to my experience, is if you took the notes of completely authentic tobacco, yet were experiencing them on a hookah. The overpowering smoke and sometimes chemically taste is %100 cleaned up. The complete experience may not be there as much. However, without a doubt, the taste is there. And that taste will change a bit as the atomizer gets those tobacco particles clogged and built up on it. It'll become more of a drier vape, slightly ashy. I actually don't have much experience with smoking a real, good cigar, but I do know that I pretty much hate any and all forms of bad, cheap tobacco, and I do have to say that with my few and rare experiences of smoking a good pipe tobacco or cigar, the NET's are a real treat.

    The good news out of all of is, if you learn how to build your own atomizer, the effects and tones you can bring out from different builds and voltage and all that is supposed to be a journey all in itself. I can't attest to much of it, but I have experienced the closest thing to an Rebuilt Atomizer quality vape, and lemme tell you, the experience is night and day. And I know that experience was just the beginning. I could taste that there was going to be a real journey to this, and I hope to really prove what vaping can really give once my current shipments of devices come in. Elsewise, either it's just me, or it's everyone else, but pretty much every standard device I've tried to vape out of - tanks, cartriges, ect ect - has made my juices taste like crap, normal juices at that. They wouldn't dare make an NET work. So that's what I gotta say - to get that real flavor, vaping becomes extremely complex. It truly becomes a hobby.

    .... And really, I'm the last guy in the world that wants to say that. I hate hobbying. I hate complexity. In my opinion, everyone should be able to buy a Protank or Clearomizer or whatever and it should work fine with whatever. But the sad truth is that it usually isn't that way...
     
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