A debate with Heart and Stroke Foundation

[warrior3995]

Hi All, two things from Steve Paikin's Show yesterday. Please help:
1) Youtube Recording- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxKZa4UI1lo
2) Email from David Sweanor - Please help put Mark & Heart & Stroke to shame. They are on facebook and twitter.
... I have had some nice feedback from The Agenda interview that aired last night on TV Ontario.
But I am still very upset that Mark Holland of Heart and Stroke seemed to be incredibly ill informed – or was purposefully misleading the public.
Among other things he:
1) Said, and repeated, that 18% of young people in Ontario are using electronic cigarettes.
2) Claimed that a Japanese study found e-cigs to have ‘ten times the carcinogens’ of cigarettes. When challenged on this outrageous misrepresentation of a study (that was in any event refuted even in its narrow point on formaldehyde by people like Dr. Farsalinos within hours of publication) he claimed that he had read the study.
3) He played up the cardiovascular risks of nicotine, despite these risks being very minor and despite Heart and Stoke apparently not seeing those risks in the NRT products they endorse.
4) He claimed that e-cigs have only been around for two years.
I see all of this as very disturbing. I have a long history of debating cigarette company PR people who would play fast and loose with the science and engage in obfuscation. But when a representative of a major health organization, while claiming to be ‘science based’, engages in such behaviour I think we have to hold them to account. I believe they have an ethical obligation to know the facts and to present them honestly to the public.

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Regulating E-Cigarettes - Steve Paikin (The Agenda) w/ David Sweanor & Mark Holland
December 15, 2014. Steve Paikin from The Agenda discusses e-cigarettes & vaping with the logical...
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  Roy Bradley i think in an imprtant debate like that there should be at least two non smokers(a year or more) that should be able to ask questions.
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  Greg A. Hamacher What I hear is a whole lot of what ifs from the heart and stroke foundation and his closed attitude to any positive research that has been done, the only research he refers to is one study in china but ignores and does not comment on the research from the UK
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  Greg A. Hamacher Yes a real debate would be nice with charts and graphes for all to see, a presentation of facts from both sides and the heart and stroke would have no legitimate leg to stand on
  4 mins · Like
  
  
  
  
  
  

 

[BigBoyBlue]

It is unfortunate that people like Mark Holland are respected as an authority on the subject. He even used the non published, no peer reviewed, fear mongering japanese study as evidence. It show the level of ignorance we as a society display. It is too bad that Steve interjected before David could rebut that example. It is good to see someone who is informed was allowed on the show to express the truth about vaping. Now if only the government would speak to individuals like David then we would have a chance. I am afraid that there are more Mark's than there are David's.

Also, congrats to you for getting your statement published in the national post expose. It was very well written.

 

[warrior3995]

It is unfortunate that people like Mark Holland are respected as an authority on the subject. He even used the non published, no peer reviewed, fear mongering japanese study as evidence. It show the level of ignorance we as a society display. It is too bad that Steve interjected before David could rebut that example. It is good to see someone who is informed was allowed on the show to express the truth about vaping. Now if only the government would speak to individuals like David then we would have a chance. I am afraid that there are more Mark's than there are David's.

Also, congrats to you for getting your statement published in the national post expose. It was very well written.

Thanks for your input BigBoyBlue, but it is not me that got published that I know of, I am just passing information down the line I find here and there as I try to keep in this fight for our rights and point out the propaganda to reveal the truth, vape happy and vape free lol

 

[sgilners]

Kathleen wynn knows best, our days as happy and healthy vapers are numbered so we better stock up.

 

[BigBoyBlue]

Kathleen wynn knows best, our days as happy and healthy vapers are numbered so we better stock up.

I'm stocked up and good to go for about 3 years. Might need some additional flavours and maybe VG in that time but that will always be legal.

I am not worried about myself. Personally, I'm concerned about people that currently smoke. Anyone who is willing to do research and inform themselves is more than likely already vaping. Now is the time that people who aren't interested in pouring hours into research are making the change after seeing this first group of people change. These people need local shops to display and walk them through proper usage of these devices. They more than likely won't go on the internet for hours to figure it out themselves. Us current vapers will live fine after this bill. . . current smokers will die.

 

[warrior3995]

What I found amazing about this that was that Mark Holland of the Heart and Stroke Foundation seems to know *nothing* about these products and the extensive research that exists on them, yet tries to use that as a *strength* to support his position using a "we just don't know" gambit. Extraordinary... how about reading these surveys before sounding off on TV...?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pm...
and this...
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com...
and this...
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1...
and this elegant commentary...
http://bjgp.org/content/64/626...
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1...
Once Holland can meet the entry level professional responsibilities that go with public commentary on matters that have a life or death impact on the heath of those watching, only then should he return to TV studios.

Vape Happy.

 

[retired1]

Merged threads. Keep it one spot please.

 

[vincom]

Mark Holland referred to vaping as smoking, so ya hes clueless

 

[warrior3995]

Kelvin Brown Pfizer contributed 1 million bucks to the Canadian Heart and Stroke Foundation in 2013. Pfizer markets Nicoderm, and manufactures Champix. The masters have spoken $$$$$$$.

 

[warrior3995]

Kelvin Brown Pfizer contributed 1 million bucks to the Canadian Heart and Stroke Foundation in 2013. Pfizer markets Nicoderm, and manufactures Champix. The masters have spoken $$$$$$$.

Kelvin Brown and Steve Moores posted these two informative thoughts to me on THRA;

Steve Moores: He actually does know better but it’s his job to cherry pick only studies and say only things that support the agenda his masters hired him to promote. Does he know he is lying? In a sense he does – he knows the Japanese study he brought up has been debunked and discredited but he also knows the vast majority of people won’t know that and he can always if directly confronted act surprised. He keeps telling himself that we really don’t know everything until he convinces himself it is true.

 

[BigBoyBlue]

Mark Holland is also a former liberal mp. He expressed his interest in running for the party again in the next election. This bill has been tabled by another liberal and is being pushed by a liberal majority government. I have to believe that even as a federal liberal he has an invested interest in the political party succeeding in their agenda in Ontario. It wouldn't be very politically sound to express anything other than full support for this bill.

 

[Woofer]

This is the same Heart & Stroke Foundation that allowed their "Heart Smart" label to be displayed on beans in tomato sauce that contained 4 time the daily limit for
sodium!

Been meaning to send them an email stating that they will receive no cash from me until they modify their position on e-cigs.

 

[Heavyrocker]

LOL....makes me sick to know govt are greedy thieves.