a DIY calculator for use with PEG400?

[AndriaD]

I'm very interested in trying out e-liquid made primarily with PEG400, rather than purely PG/VG, and I realize that means I'll have to make it myself; however a problem I'm finding is that all the calculators for DIY that I know about, only concern themselves with PG/VG, and don't even have a spot where you could put PEG -- ARE there any DIY calculators which would address this? I really know nothing about DIY e-liquid, except I know I can't make a tobacco flavor I like. I'm going to try some fruit flavors instead, using PEG400 as the primary "carrier", though there will still be a little PG/VG in it from the nicotine base. But I really need a calculator that will let me figure in the correct amount of PEG400.

And before anyone decides I'm stupid to use PEG400 instead of PG/VG, I do have my reasons -- VG smothers me completely; as little as 33% VG and I just can't breathe at all. PG causes me no difficulties in my mouth, throat, or airway, BUT, it does cause my feet, ankles, and legs to swell to painful levels. At this point, if PG/VG were my only options, I'd have to just hang up vaping completely, but I'm too fond of the idea of NOT getting lung cancer, so I figure I really need to try out some e-liquid made primarily with PEG400 before I just give up on it.

Thx
Andria

 

[Hoosier]

Why does the calculator have to say "PEG"?

Put in whatever you want and tell it you want 100%PG. Then whatever the amount of plain PG is the amount of PEG you'd put in.

I use a mix of PG and VG for my mixes, but I only input 100% PG in the calculator. The fact it doesn't say "Mix of PG and VG" doesn't phase me in the least and I'd bet you could mix the same way.

 

[AndriaD]

Hmm... well I guess I could, except I do want to account for the actual amount of PG that ends up in it -- the nicotine I'm going to use is PG based, though I'm also planning to dilute a little of what I have, for storage, as 75%PG/25%VG, 75mg -- the straight PG nicotine would be 100mg. I just need to keep a fairly clear idea of how much PG and VG ends up in the mix, due to my problems with both of those.

Thx!
Andria

 

[Hoosier]

You know how much of each you're putting in, so I would think the accounting would be really straightforward?

 

[AndriaD]

I'm looking at "e-juice me up" calc at the moment... I *might* be able to do it by using the "x3" switch, combining the liquids (PEG plus nicotine base) as if they're separate nicotine sources -- thoughts on that?

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

You know how much of each you're putting in, so I would think the accounting would be really straightforward?

Hmm... well I'm just not sure, since I haven't really done this before (except that one awful experiment I tried with Virginia flavor), so I'm just not really sure about how to add the flavors. What I'm planning at the moment is a "cool pineapple" -- fresh-fruit pineapple flavor with some of the Koolada for the cool on exhale. I mean -- is the total volume, say 10ml, before or after I add the flavor? Which would kinda determine how many drops I use, wouldn't it?

Andria

 

[Hoosier]

Sounds reasonable.

I use a spreadsheet based calculator and if I wanted to do what you want to do, I'd just add it in and alter the formulas. So I cannot know what ejuice me up will, or will not, do.

 

[serenity21899]

Maybe something like this?

DIY E-Liquid Calculator Ten Flavors With Nicotine Plus PG/VG Adjusting

 

[sc12]

I'm looking at "e-juice me up" calc at the moment... I *might* be able to do it by using the "x3" switch, combining the liquids (PEG plus nicotine base) as if they're separate nicotine sources -- thoughts on that?

Andria

That idea is worth playing with or you could possibly put it in the flavor section of the calculator and mark it as VG. Any VG in your recipes would actually be PEG 400. Just a thought.

 

[AndriaD]

Hmmm... all very good thoughts! I'll play around with the diff calcs at that link you gave me, Serenity -- thx for that! -- and see what I can come up with -- maybe I could enter the PEG as if it's the "diluting liquid" (water/vodka/PGA).

I just really hope I can come up with a decent tasting e-liquid using the PEG, and that the PEG doesn't dehydrate me as the PG does, which I believe is the bottomline reason for the foot/ankle/leg swelling. I really like vaping, and it's sure as heck a great substitute for smoking. Since I've been so ill I've gone back to smoking a little, since with the illness-caused dehydration (vomiting and ........ are really bad for that!) I sure didn't want to make the dehydration even worse with vaping, but I'm really looking forward to getting back to smoke-free.

The main reason I think the PEG may work better for me is the description given for it, versus that of PG -- PEG400 is described as "hydrophilic" and PG is described as "hygroscopic"; I looked up a comparison of the two terms, which yielded this:

"A hydrophilic substance will bond, on a molecular level with water. A hygroscopic substance will actively attract and absorb water, without bonding."

I'm a very long way from any kind of chemist, but it seems to me that the hydrophilic substance (PEG400) would be less dehydrating than a hygroscopic substance (PG).

Andria

 

[Crunktanium]

Ejuicemeup is pretty simple but process you are attempting is what's complicated.

So put your nic strength then it has a field for PG and a VG within the nicotine. If your nic is 100% PG then put PG as 100% rather than the default 50% which will change the VG to 0%. Now put your desired nic strength which you want as the end result. Put in the amount of juice you want to make in total. Then put your flavors and tick the 0 PG/VG box for each flavor. Now for the target VG/PG you want to set around 50% just for now. If you go to low it will throw an error so just set it higher for now to get the proper value. After you calculate this you will get the needed PG/VG percentages. You will add these together and the combined percentages are your total PEG. So add this total as your target VG at the bottom and the VG will now be your needed PEG amount.

The reason you must do it this way is due to the dependency on the nic level and the target nic level. Depending on the nic you use will determine how much PG to VG your juice must contain. Keep in mind though without having a clue on how much PG is in your flavoring your actual PG percentage will be a guestimate. However the dilution will still be correct and you will have the lowest percentage of PG that is possible with a given nic percentage.

If this explanation is to hard to follow just tell me what you want to make, how much and at what nic strength. I can translate a few recipes for you no problem. Since my VG/PG/DW is premixed this is similar to my own method except I don't use PEG.

 

[mightymen]

I'm looking at "e-juice me up" calc at the moment... I *might* be able to do it by using the "x3" switch, combining the liquids (PEG plus nicotine base) as if they're separate nicotine sources -- thoughts on that?

Andria

Go into tools, I believe this will work for you.

 

[AndriaD]

Ejuicemeup is pretty simple but process you are attempting is what's complicated.

So put your nic strength then it has a field for PG and a VG within the nicotine. If your nic is 100% PG then put PG as 100% rather than the default 50% which will change the VG to 0%. Now put your desired nic strength which you want as the end result. Put in the amount of juice you want to make in total. Then put your flavors and tick the 0 PG/VG box for each flavor. Now for the target VG/PG you want to set around 50% just for now. If you go to low it will throw an error so just set it higher for now to get the proper value. After you calculate this you will get the needed PG/VG percentages. You will add these together and the combined percentages are your total PEG. So add this total as your target VG at the bottom and the VG will now be your needed PEG amount.

The reason you must do it this way is due to the dependency on the nic level and the target nic level. Depending on the nic you use will determine how much PG to VG your juice must contain. Keep in mind though without having a clue on how much PG is in your flavoring your actual PG percentage will be a guestimate. However the dilution will still be correct and you will have the lowest percentage of PG that is possible with a given nic percentage.

If this explanation is to hard to follow just tell me what you want to make, how much and at what nic strength. I can translate a few recipes for you no problem. Since my VG/PG/DW is premixed this is similar to my own method except I don't use PEG.

Thx very much! This seems fairly clear, but just to be sure I'm understanding you correctly, I took a couple screen shots at the diff stages -- the first one, just as you described, with 100% PG nicotine, 100mg, and setting the target PG/VG to 50/50 (the flavoring percentage for the pineapple is an estimate, but I have a question out about that, to the person who recommended the Hangsen's Pineapple flavor -- hopefully will know more specifically the percentage for flavor by the end of today. The 4% for koolada was based the recommended 10 drops per 10ml, and 4% gives that number) -- here's the first img --



Based on this, the combined percentages of the PG/VG comes to 72%, so I entered that as the target VG percentage --



This 2nd figure then gives a figure for VG as 156 drops -- this is what I would actually add of PEG, while disregarding the PG entirely? (EDIT: this would actually make it come out .95ml short -- so I suppose I could just add a ml-ish of *actual* VG, to get the proper 10ml quantity?)

Thx very much!
Andria

 

[Crunktanium]

The combined should be 7.2ml VG (this is your PEG400) total not 6.25ml as there is still .95% left in the PG column. Just ignore the fact that PG and VG are even in the tables and consider them both PEG.

 

[AndriaD]

The combined should be 7.2ml VG (this is your PEG400) total not 6.25ml as there is still .95% left in the PG column. Just ignore the fact that PG and VG are even in the tables and consider them both PEG.

Actually I might just go ahead and use the PG figure for adding *actual* VG, while using the VG figure for the PEG400 -- I don't have a problem with a tiny amount of VG, and it does help increase vapor... I just can't use very much of it, before it starts messing with my lungs.

Thx very much! Your explanation was incredibly helpful! I feel like I can really get this done now. This morning I ordered the PEG400, Hangsen Pineapple flavor, and Koolada. So I should be able to get this done by about the end of the week, and if so, so long cigarettes! (again!)

Thx!
Andria

 

[mightymen]

This 2nd figure then gives a figure for VG as 156 drops -- this is what I would actually add of PEG, while disregarding the PG entirely? (EDIT: this would actually make it come out .95ml short -- so I suppose I could just add a ml-ish of *actual* VG, to get the proper 10ml quantity?

I have one suggestion, don't use a dropper(different liquids measure out different) If you can use a syringe more accurate.

 

[AndriaD]

I have one suggestion, don't use a dropper(different liquids measure out different) If you can use a syringe more accurate.

Yes, my sentiments exactly. I recently ordered some excellent deals from Amazon, a 10pk of 10ml syringes for $5.80, and a 10pk of 3ml syringes for $5.20 (both Luer Locks). Still waiting on the 3ml ones, but they should be here tomorrow or the next day. I decided to go ahead and get the 10pks because the markings rub off so quickly, all the ones I have are about naked by now -- which is fine for just filling tanks and whatnot, but definitely not for mixing and measuring!

Andria

 

[mightymen]

Yes, my sentiments exactly. I recently ordered some excellent deals from Amazon, a 10pk of 10ml syringes for $5.80, and a 10pk of 3ml syringes for $5.20 (both Luer Locks). Still waiting on the 3ml ones, but they should be here tomorrow or the next day. I decided to go ahead and get the 10pks because the markings rub off so quickly, all the ones I have are about naked by now -- which is fine for just filling tanks and whatnot, but definitely not for mixing and measuring!

Andria

Tip - before you use them put a piece of scotch tape over length of the markings or your going to remove them.

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9926620

PEG400 MSDS

Maurice

 

[mightymen]

http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9926620

PEG400 MSDS

Maurice

Double Wow!

Thanks Maurice, always a pleasure to bump into you.