A Huge Disappointment

[Kabooma]

Well, I recently tried to buy life insurance, you know.. in case I die in a fiery car crash, I want my wife and child to be taken care of. I was willing to pay a fair monthly rate for a decent payout.

I'm in my early 40's, and in no ill-health, in fact, I bike ride like a .... and exercise regularly.. I'm not the fittest guy in the world, but I'm also not going to keel over and die any day soon (but you never know!).

So I had my exam last week and my agent calls me today.. I've been elevated to the high risk "smokers" category because they found nicotine in my blood test.. Well.. DUH! They ASKED on the questionaire "do you use nicotine replacement products such as gum or patches" to which I answered "YES", but in the "have you smoked in the last year" I said NO (my anniversary is coming up soon anyways lol)..

They don't even recognize vaping.

They don't recognize patches or gum as any different than smoking.

Well.. WTH? I recognize a MAJOR difference in my overall health and well-being.

I got told my $88/mo. policy will now cost more than 10x that amount for the same coverage. %$^#!?

To add: I'm just really disappointed that us vapers will never escape the "smoking" label. Never.

 

[Vwls]

What strength nicotine do you vape?

 

[DebbM]

That is scary to hear Kabooma. I just had to take an on-line health questionnaire in order to be eligible to participate in a PPO insurance option from my company. Lucky for me they only asked if I smoke cigarettes and I was honestly able to say no. I was annoyed that I had to even take this test. This make me thinks when the option comes up next year and if I am still vaping nicotine it will count against me.

 

[anavidfan]

Just tell them you eat a LOT OF tomatoes , eggplants, all look up all the other vegetables that nicotine is naturally found in
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/15/nicotine-in-vegetables_n_1597087.html

Oh, and I guess depending on how much nic is in your juice and how much you use a day, you might try to slowly cut the nic to a lower level.

 

[WCSR]

My life insurance (privately acquired, and not through my work) costs me $80-ish a month, and I was up front and told them that I had quit smoking and only occasionally used cessation products. My wife's policy is half the price of mine and she doesn't use nicotine.


PM me if you want to know the name of the insurer.

 

[Rickajho]

There is more than one insurance company out there providing more than one life insurance policy. Time to shop around.

 

[TheDarthJager]

Well, I recently tried to buy life insurance, you know.. in case I die in a fiery car crash, I want my wife and child to be taken care of. I was willing to pay a fair monthly rate for a decent payout.

I'm in my early 40's, and in no ill-health, in fact, I bike ride like a .... and exercise regularly.. I'm not the fittest guy in the world, but I'm also not going to keel over and die any day soon (but you never know!).

So I had my exam last week and my agent calls me today.. I've been elevated to the high risk "smokers" category because they found nicotine in my blood test.. Well.. DUH! They ASKED on the questionaire "do you use nicotine replacement products such as gum or patches" to which I answered "YES", but in the "have you smoked in the last year" I said NO (my anniversary is coming up soon anyways lol)..

They don't even recognize vaping.

They don't recognize patches or gum as any different than smoking.

Well.. WTH? I recognize a MAJOR difference in my overall health and well-being.

I got told my $88/mo. policy will now cost more than 10x that amount for the same coverage. %$^#!?

To add: I'm just really disappointed that us vapers will never escape the "smoking" label. Never.

I know how you feel man. Give it time and sooner or later the public at large with see the difference and the benefit of vaping.

 

[vjc0628]

There is more than one insurance company out there providing more than one life insurance policy. Time to shop around.

Agreed, If Nic is you only issue you can do better

Also I don't know the nic level you vape but if you can go a few days without nic and drink water it will be worth it in the long run

 

[DC2]

I wish this thread was producing more answers...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...all-people-background-insurance-industry.html

 

[Kabooma]

Good discussion over there DC2-

It's a bummer because the agent I went to is a close personal friend.. someone I'd like to give my business to if I can, and also someone to trust in an industry known for raping it's customers... But all that aside, the irony here is that I was merely looking for a policy that would cover sudden tragedies like death by car accident or lightning strike, drone strike, or crazed guy with a gun who thinks my skittles are an imminent threat, or whatever. I'm in decent health and pay close attention to my heart and cholesterol, so I'm not really worried about THAT so much as the sudden things.. I'd happily waive any smoking or nicotine related causes of death if it takes my premium back down to that of a non-smoker.

The other thing that bothers me is that this isn't just the insurance industry.. it's everyone. Nobody understands vaping, and they still consider us to be "smokers".. I think we need a new group outside of CASAA that is focused strictly on awareness and education. Most people never go past the headlines in the mass media, and those headlines all damn e-cigarettes as "dangerous"..

 

[vjc0628]

I wish this thread was producing more answers...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...all-people-background-insurance-industry.html

the answers are there

the are just not the answers we would want but its the truth

 

[Arnie H]

They must think Nicotine is the real killer in cigarette smoke. But the truth is it is not. However, I suppose an argument can be made (and has) that Nicotine is guilty by association, and in a way this is partially true, as the nicotine habit might be what keeps smokers coming back for more death via another cigarette. But other factors and other chemicals may be involved as well.

 

[darkstorm]

Agreed, If Nic is you only issue you can do better
Also I don't know the nic level you vape but if you can go a few days without nic and drink water it will be worth it in the long run

Careful with that. Nicotine can be detected in blood tests for weeks and insurance companies are always looking for ways to invalidate a claim. God forbid a vaper is killed in a car accident only to have the insurance company deny their life insurance claim as fraud when they find nicotine in the policy holders system.

 

[vjc0628]

Good discussion over there DC2-

It's a bummer because the agent I went to is a close personal friend.. someone I'd like to give my business to if I can, and also someone to trust in an industry known for raping it's customers... But all that aside, the irony here is that I was merely looking for a policy that would cover sudden tragedies like death by car accident or lightning strike, drone strike, or crazed guy with a gun who thinks my skittles are an imminent threat, or whatever. I'm in decent health and pay close attention to my heart and cholesterol, so I'm not really worried about THAT so much as the sudden things.. I'd happily waive any smoking or nicotine related causes of death if it takes my premium back down to that of a non-smoker.

The other thing that bothers me is that this isn't just the insurance industry.. it's everyone. Nobody understands vaping, and they still consider us to be "smokers".. I think we need a new group outside of CASAA that is focused strictly on awareness and education. Most people never go past the headlines in the mass media, and those headlines all damn e-cigarettes as "dangerous"..

Understand its not that the ins industry is ignorant to vaping but they are hit by the gov

look they have been told (In health Ins) they must except and not charge extra for some one who has cancer and would probably need 10x the amount spent on care then brought in by premium
on the other hand on the gov enemy list is smoking and overweight the only the an individual health ins can charge for
They are not going to recognize anything that would allow for anyone to pay lower premiums when all this is going on

with that said Life Ins companies are not got to put heath ins companies on the spot by doing taking lower rates for that
there might be a couple I don't know but if there are it wont last and it wont be a more reputable company


Now on another note if the agent is a friend he is probably trying to do the best e can for you but maybe he only works with one company
every company has its niche group so even if you shop around and find something else you can always refer someone to him just let them know to shop around also
If the agent is a friend and only works for 1 Ins company and know your rate is not good he should be happy you are finding something elsewhere and not over paying with him
which would create resentment down the line friendship is worth more then money

 

[Browneye]

The other thing that bothers me is that this isn't just the insurance industry.. it's everyone. Nobody understands vaping, and they still consider us to be "smokers".. I think we need a new group outside of CASAA that is focused strictly on awareness and education. Most people never go past the headlines in the mass media, and those headlines all damn e-cigarettes as "dangerous"..

^^ This +

I just got into this vaping thing about a month ago. I'm a quick study and it all makes sense to me. What I just don't get is the damning of something so benign compared to tobacco cigarettes. I really just don't get it. The general news media is the worst of it. So I'm on a letter writing campaign, responding to everything I hear that is negative. Written city councils, newspapers, even got on talk-radio for a bit.

Many of the comments I've heard come from 'sheeple' mentality. People really just can't think for themselves anymore.

I'm all for awareness education. The general population really just has no clue. And they are afraid!

 

[bikerbeagle]

Give it time and sooner or later the public at large with see the difference and the benefit of vaping.

hahahahaha! ...that's a joke, right?

 

[Rickajho]

I wouldn't be slamming CASAA. We all can and should be doing more whenever we can. But CASAA gives us the capacity to have a collective voice. One person calling one Congress critter - meh. CASAA puts together the collective voice and pushes it as a pile onto places like the FDA: E-cigarettes and other Tobacco Harm Reduction strategies: a collection of success stories - 0%

CASAA gave us the ability to focus our efforts and produce things like the recent Drexel research study => Lab Reports: ecigarettes

And has materials on the site you can print out yourself for handouts about what vaping really is and isn't. CASAA Printable Material

And stuff like that.

Have you even been to the CASAA web site?

 

[Robino1]

^^ This +

I just got into this vaping thing about a month ago. I'm a quick study and it all makes sense to me. What I just don't get is the damning of something so benign compared to tobacco cigarettes. I really just don't get it. The general news media is the worst of it. So I'm on a letter writing campaign, responding to everything I hear that is negative. Written city councils, newspapers, even got on talk-radio for a bit.

Many of the comments I've heard come from 'sheeple' mentality. People really just can't think for themselves anymore.

I'm all for awareness education. The general population really just has no clue. And they are afraid!

I have an email campaign that I'm trying to get people involved with. The emails are to go out to news agencies on National and World Vaping Day on September 19th. Link to the thread: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...orld-national-vaping-day-what-your-plans.html

I hope you will contribute your letter/email writing on that day!


Kabooma (hard to get used to that name here!), I'm sorry that this happened to you
Like others have said, hopefully you might find another insurance carrier that might take you.
Check out the thread I linked here.

 

[Robino1]

I wouldn't be slamming CASAA. We all can and should be doing more whenever we can. But CASAA gives us the capacity to have a collective voice. One person calling one Congress critter - meh. CASAA puts together the collective voice and pushes it as a pile onto places like the FDA: E-cigarettes and other Tobacco Harm Reduction strategies: a collection of success stories - 0%

CASAA gave us the ability to focus our efforts and produce things like the recent Drexel research study => Lab Reports: ecigarettes

And has materials on the site you can print out yourself for handouts about what vaping really is and isn't. CASAA Printable Material

And stuff like that.

Have you even been to the CASAA web site?

He is a member of CASAA. He is just totally frustrated right now. I get that.

 

[Uncle Willie]

What many don't consider is, if your test determines that you have a high enough level of nic in your system to flag you as a smoker, you end up arguing against the results .. insurance is designed to provide monetary value based on the number of paying policy holders vs what the insurance company feels it's financial exposure is .. so the positive nic results are simply being compared to others that have had a similar test result and what the insurance companies loss experience is with them ..

If a prospective policy holder falls within that criteria, how would the insurance company know you are not a smoker .. ?? Other than your word, they are not going to assign someone to follow you for weeks on end to see if you light up an analog .. they use the test and the results .. and a positive nic test places you in a higher risk category ..

I am hopeful that as time passes, and solid, consistent positive results from smokers that have switched to a PV will begin to sway these things further into our favor .. in the meantime, there will really not be any way, at least that I can think of, to convince an insurer that you don't, in fact, smoke analogs .. as long as your system nic level shows in the range high enough to still call you a smoker ..