A newbie who bought Njoy

[four2109]

... I would recommend that whatever you buy first. Forget that you over paid. buy a good bottle of strong juice, learn how to make it work while you shop for something else. This way the learning curve is taken care off. You will know something about atomizers and carts, and you will know what you want and like it more when you get it. Then the fancy expensive original can become a back up. ...

Ditto
I bought an NJOY Pro at Pilot and switched that day. Worth every penny!!!!!

Ordered a 401 and one for my Dad. I love it. Short batt life and small cart. Wicks great. He still smokes so it's a toy.

Ordered a 901 and one for my GF's Mom. It was a PITA, now I love it. Real easy draw and easy to top off. Doesn't wick worth a damn. She can't figure it out so she buys a mall model and is now smoking again, which will kill her after it takes her limbs from poor circulation.

Ordered an 801 atty and put it in a Nicostick, Great big cart!.

My 4081, 801 & 901 are all on Nicostick mods and homemade pass throughs and I don't bother much with the auto batts. They are charged if I want/need them.

Visit the modders forum and all you have to buy is atomizer, carts and juice.

As for the "copper" I wouldn't buy a mod that I had to activate with my teeth. If you are at all mechanically inclined, you can build your own. He did.
None of them are magic.

 

[gatsby]

gatsby;

That site is selling the Nicostick for $40.00. I just built the same identical thing for less than $5.00. It's set up for my 4081 attys.

Yeah, I understand what you are saying. I used to bring old cameras back to life for fun and it used to drive me crazy when I would see some old camera for sale for $200 and the sales man telling someone that it was completely cleaned and refurbished. I wanted to yell out that I could find two of those at a goodwill for $15 and clean and refurbish them into one for $20 total, but I realized not everyone wants to go through that hassle (it was a labor of love for me back then) and the extra money was their fee for being lazy. So I don't think $40 for labor and profit on $5 parts is too crazy. Anyway, my point was that there are mods available for 4081 atomizers. I wasn't trying to pimp for the copper or the company. As to the mouth activation, I thought that was weird too but I read a post where someone mentioned that they just push it in with their thumb like the button on a 510. Personally I ended up shelling out way more than that on a SuperT.

 

[BOREMAN]

To Kody and everyone else posting on this thread: I too started my vapor experience with the NJOY NPRO purchased from a Pilot (July 20th). Wasnt too happy with it myself. Then ordered a different type from Smoke51 (Smoking Everywhere), piece of crap, imo. The NJOY isnt bad once you get the hang of it and get yourself knowledgeable on the ins and outs of using a RN4082 model as the NJOY. I still wasnt happy with my new experience in the world of vaping. I did alot of research and reviews (video) of different PVs available. This is what I settled on: It is the Vapor King (VK) from Vapor4Life.com. This is a two piece unit (E9 type model). Two piece meaning that there is a rechargeable battery and an atomizer (built into the cart) that screws onto the battery. They call it a cartomizer. These cartomizers come in different flavors in different strengths from 0mg up to 36mg. These cartomizers are disposable, so you get a new atomizer with every new cart. Now, I say disposable, but they CAN be refilled with more e-liquid and I have found I can refill them up to approx 10-15 times before theynstart wearing out (one new cart or new refill will last me most of the day, about 12-18 cigs). The flavor is outstanding, the throat hit is phenominal, and the vapor output is frickin GREAT ! ! ! I ordered a starter kit on the 27th of July and received it two days later in the mail. The starter kit costs 69.95 and comes with 2xrechargeable batts (colors are black, silver, blue, red, green, white); 1xwall charger; 1xusb charger; 1xUSB Passthru (so u can vape directly from computer); 1xcarry case; 1xbox of five cartomizers (choice of flavor); 1x30ml bottle of juice (choice of flavor). Shipping is only 6.95 via USPS priority mail. This PV frickin rocks hands down. They also have available new PCC'c (Mobile carrying charger, in black), for 25 bucks, or you can order the Ultimate Vapor King kit with the PCC included, for I think 80.95. The owners name is Steve Milin. He will deal with you personally. When I received my starter kit, one of the batts didnt work properly. I sent him an email about it. He immediately called me ! ! ! The next day he shpped another one out to me. What I received two days later in the mail were TWO new batts (one black and one white) in a new carrying case as well. He didnt even want the bad one back. I have since ordered more flavored cartomizers (he has 28 different flavors) and some of his Nobacco juice (regarded as the most flavorful in the business). His shipping is freaking fast. He is up in the Chicago area, I am in Arkansas. Always receive my order 2 days after placing it. I also want to say, that I am not a representative of his company, I do not sell his product, I am not affiliated with Vapor4Life.com in any way. This is just a great PV, it is the Vapor King. Please check out his website, please check out the forum posts on this website. Also, check out Leaford's ecig reviews of the Vapor King on either Youtube or just google "Leafords e-cig reviews" (Leaford is known as the guru of vaping in the vaping community and has rated the Vapor King in his top 5 of best Pvs on the market). I guarantee you will be extremely satisfied with the VAPOR KING. I havent used the NJOY NPRO since ! ! ! Crap, I dont even remember where I put the darn thing ! ! As Steve would say, "I will make you SMILE or your money back", Stevel Milin (SMILIN on this forum) I also think he is running a 10% off sale right now. Use discount coupon code: SMILIN

Mike

 

[Kent C]

Gatsby,

Informative posts on what is what. A few comments.

The manual battery is easier no question, but if the automatic battery was impossible the technology wouldn't have made it to the point it is and some people prefer the automatic for hands free operation.

I think you've switched cause and effect here. Although I don't know the exact history of the devices I'm pretty sure 'manual batts' were a later development. Why? Because "some people prefer the automatic for hands free operation" or that automatic is 'more like a regular cigarette'.
And I would think that it was from that fact, that the automatic battery was made. That's the 'market argument'. That they are still around, has more to do with the ignorance of the public - something of which certain companies take advantage.

And no one here has said that 'the automatic battery was impossible' to make - that's a straw man argument. The fact that it isn't impossible to make doesn't justify that it is still being made. What appears to justify it, by evidence we see here, is 'first time buyers' looking to quit smoking will pay anything for something that appears it may help whether it does or not, much like baldness remedies.

The auto was intended and it was made. What came next was the manual. Why do you suppose that is? The answer is in the 95% of the posts that wv2win an I point to in this forum. The other 5% could be easily explained by the fanboy factor/and the need to justify having made the 'right' decision that turned out to be wrong, and those who do electronic troubleshooting for a living or that like to tinker. And frankly I'm good with all of those but those who are still looking, should get the whole picture.

Remember the size of the battery counts. Small battery the less capacity and a 510 battery goes runs out of juice way faster than a 4081.

While my experience is different regarding this - I'd say the time between charges was not significant - there is another factor that affects the length of time between charges - the actual length of time that the battery is on. There is a period of time after the cutoff on the auto where you cannot reengage vaping. Now if you happened to have gotten an inhale before the cutoff, then the downtime before you can inhale again wouldn't be a problem. But if, as was my case too often, and is the case by evidence of so many posts here, getting a good vape before cutoff is a problem in probability. I'd submit that the amount of vapor per charge on a manual is multiples of that of the auto for those reasons - auto's have an 'enforced downtime' - manuals do not. And as a result - manuals are more efficient and proficient in their use of time in between charges. And 'having to recharge a battery' is an overblown concept, not just used by the auto fans but the mod fans as well. Not saying it isn't a factor, just that it's overblown. There may have been a time - when there were not battery packs or PCC's - where someone had to carry 6 or 8 batteries around with them, but today, that again, is a strawman argument because solutions other than mods have been created. At home, my guess is that with any model a person is likely to have 1 going and at least 2 charging. And that there is no downtime 'waiting for a battery to charge' (except for those just receiving there first kit ;-)

Carts- The third part is the cart which can vary in design and capacity....
Now if you bothered to read this far you have notice one of the things about the 4081. It has all the dripping inconvenience of the recessed atomizer and all the filling inconvenience of the recessed cart. .

It is this fact, in combination with the mechanics of the auto batt that results in juice in the mouth. With all due respect to Spikey, when she makes the comment that people who can't fill a super mini cart are ......ed, this is the same type of comment that wv2win refers to when people accuse us who couldn't get a 4081 to vape consistently that we're just not doing the 10 step checklist right.

The fact is, is that even if you are using a syringe to fill the 4081 cart you still can't see if it is filled or overfilled. If you don't use a syringe and don't want to drip into the area that goes right to the mouthpiece then you better have a level available with a fixed apparatus to squeeze the dropper bottle. I exaggerate but unless you look directly into the cart body you are going to miss the cart. Simple as that. And as a result, esp. if you don't do a priming puff, you are going to suck that juice up like a straw on first draw.

I hope this and your post help people make better decisions.

Regards....

 

[four2109]

...- And 'having to recharge a battery' is an overblown concept, not just used by the auto fans but the mod fans as well. Not saying it isn't a factor, just that it's overblown. There may have been a time - when there were not battery packs or PCC's - where someone had to carry 6 or 8 batteries around with them, but today, that again, is a strawman argument because solutions other than mods have been created. At home, my guess is that with any model a person is likely to have 1 going and at least 2 charging. And that there is no downtime 'waiting for a battery to charge' (except for those just receiving there first kit ;-)
....

You have to be kidding.

 

[Kent C]

You have to be kidding.

No, I'm not. It is not a significant factor having to recharge a battery after 2 or 3 hours (or even 1) when you have another fully charged battery to use.... well, unless someone thinks that having to unscrew and screw a battery in place is a chore. And if that's the case, then they are going to think that if it is 3 or 4 hours, or merely 2 or 3.

And understand, I only say that it is overblown in the way it's been represented here. Mainly that the 510 battery lasts only 2 or 3 hours where others last a hour or so longer (and mods longer still) but that it of no significance when you have another to replace it, either at home from a charger or from a PCC. So to make 'battery use' as a 'prime negative' of the 510 is frankly absurd given all the positive factors it provides. Needs differ, but for the most part, nicotine absortion and good vapor are much more important and for that the 510 delivers where some others fail.

 

[ProtoType]

Jim, have you done a comparison in vapor production of the 4081 nicostick and the 510 with manual?

 

[gatsby]

No, I'm not. It is not a significant factor having to recharge a battery after 2 or 3 hours (or even 1) when you have another fully charged battery to use.... well, unless someone thinks that having to unscrew and screw a battery in place is a chore. And if that's the case, then they are going to think that if it is 3 or 4 hours, or merely 2 or 3.

And understand, I only say that it is overblown in the way it's been represented here. Mainly that the 510 battery lasts only 2 or 3 hours where others last a hour or so longer (and mods longer still) but that it of no significance when you have another to replace it, either at home from a charger or from a PCC. So to make 'battery use' as a 'prime negative' of the 510 is frankly absurd given all the positive factors it provides. Needs differ, but for the most part, nicotine absortion and good vapor are much more important and for that the 510 delivers where some others fail.

I will start with this statement because you are missing a lot of the point here for no good reason. First the 510 has the shortest battery life. It lasts 1- 1.5 hrs new while the others can last 2-3 hours OR since time is very relative a new 510 battery is good for an average of 80 puffs (about 5 cigarettes) , 4081= an average of 160 (about a half a pack) and the 401/pens about 200 or 200 +. This is an issue since for the folks whose habits get about an hour from the 510 can lap a PCC even with 3 batteries.

That point aside these batteries have a shelf life. The suppliers will tell you it is 200 charges (like every thing this is exaggerated), but what that means is every charge weakens that battery. I am a pretty heavy vaper ( an ex 2pack a day full flavor camel smoker or 8 510 batteries a day IF vaping didn't have a 10% absorption rate as compared to tobacco) and I go through about 16 charges of a 510 battery a day (4 batteries in rotation with good batteries). What that means is within a month those batteries are over half dead and no longer perform at the rate a new battery does. Which means trying to compensate with longer hits and shorter battery life which kills them even faster. Bad battery life is a logarithmic function to more cost. Of course one has to kill a few of these things before you recognize it. Basically if your habits are such that 1 or 2 batteries last you all day you are fine but anything more than that and battery life becomes very very important whether you have a PCC or not (6 hours at a party or a bar and I will kill all 3 batteries even with a PCC).

 

[gatsby]

Gatsby,

Informative posts on what is what. A few comments.



I think you've switched cause and effect here. Although I don't know the exact history of the devices I'm pretty sure 'manual batts' were a later development. Why? Because "some people prefer the automatic for hands free operation" or that automatic is 'more like a regular cigarette'.
And I would think that it was from that fact, that the automatic battery was made. That's the 'market argument'. That they are still around, has more to do with the ignorance of the public - something of which certain companies take advantage.

Some people really do prefer the automatic batteries for the hands free operation this is not just trick by the suppliers don't assume your preferences are everyone elses, but if you read that passage in its entirety you will see that I said I felt that hands free was "over-rated about 90% of the time" because habits will change. The more important point I was making was you can get an automatic battery to work well (the strawman was yours assuming I was making an argument for automatic batteries). My point was what makes an automatic battery hard is that you need to use one organ to do two jobs. Personally I think the automatic batteries are a great training device to learn better vaping technique (slow and low) that is handy even for manual batteries. Ultimately my point was that you should learn to use whatever tool you bought because it will help you decide what to buy in the long run. This will make you happier with your future purchase because you have already beaten the learning curve. The point was not that automatic batteries are the way to go (just that they work).

The auto was intended and it was made. What came next was the manual. Why do you suppose that is? The answer is in the 95% of the posts that wv2win an I point to in this forum. The other 5% could be easily explained by the fanboy factor/and the need to justify having made the 'right' decision that turned out to be wrong, and those who do electronic troubleshooting for a living or that like to tinker. And frankly I'm good with all of those but those who are still looking, should get the whole picture.

Again some people have different preferences than you, but like I mentioned before the point I was making was that this 95% mostly bought something already and they might as well learn the basics with that kit especially since every kit has all 3 components represented. Do you hate the battery life? Then look at a big bat set up. Do you like the recessed atomizer? Then look for that set up. What do you hate about the carts? Size? placement? There are other options. Use your mistake to learn the system and in the process develop the ability to use the gear you have. The worst thing that can happen is you use your old gear as a back up once you decide.

While my experience is different regarding this - I'd say the time between charges was not significant - there is another factor that affects the length of time between charges - the actual length of time that the battery is on. There is a period of time after the cutoff on the auto where you cannot reengage vaping. Now if you happened to have gotten an inhale before the cutoff, then the downtime before you can inhale again wouldn't be a problem. But if, as was my case too often, and is the case by evidence of so many posts here, getting a good vape before cutoff is a problem in probability. I'd submit that the amount of vapor per charge on a manual is multiples of that of the auto for those reasons - auto's have an 'enforced downtime' - manuals do not. And as a result - manuals are more efficient and proficient in their use of time in between charges. And 'having to recharge a battery' is an overblown concept, not just used by the auto fans but the mod fans as well. Not saying it isn't a factor, just that it's overblown. There may have been a time - when there were not battery packs or PCC's - where someone had to carry 6 or 8 batteries around with them, but today, that again, is a strawman argument because solutions other than mods have been created. At home, my guess is that with any model a person is likely to have 1 going and at least 2 charging. And that there is no downtime 'waiting for a battery to charge' (except for those just receiving there first kit ;-)

Actually the inability to get a good vape before the cut off is exactly the learning curve people talk about. I can run any number of automatic batteries to their cut off and produce a ton of vapor and a good throat hit. This also makes my ability to handle a manual battery better. The 'time out' is really only a factor for those evil EVO batteries that cut off for 2 minutes (those things are the devil IMO, but I will also recognize that people who have figured them out get much better battery life. The problem is mine there). What I really disagree with is the idea that a manual battery is more efficient. If you haven't figured out how to get the most out of a battery most people just lean on the battery longer than necessary and kill it even faster.

]It is this fact, in combination with the mechanics of the auto batt that results in juice in the mouth. With all due respect to Spikey, when she makes the comment that people who can't fill a super mini cart are ......ed, this is the same type of comment that wv2win refers to when people accuse us who couldn't get a 4081 to vape consistently that we're just not doing the 10 step checklist right.

The fact is, is that even if you are using a syringe to fill the 4081 cart you still can't see if it is filled or overfilled. If you don't use a syringe and don't want to drip into the area that goes right to the mouthpiece then you better have a level available with a fixed apparatus to squeeze the dropper bottle. I exaggerate but unless you look directly into the cart body you are going to miss the cart. Simple as that. And as a result, esp. if you don't do a priming puff, you are going to suck that juice up like a straw on first draw.

I hope this and your post help people make better decisions.

Regards....

Sorry but Spikey is right and you are wrong here. It really isn't that hard to fill a 4081 cart and again this goes to the point that I made "you already bought it so use it to learn the basics". If you can fill a 4081 cart (or better yet a 401 cart) you can fill any cart and the automatic battery is not the cause for juice in the mouth, but again this is a function of using 1 organ to do 2 jobs or more likely not being very good with carts. I mentioned that I hate carts but I am also the first to admit that this is a personal preference and some people are artists with the things. Even though I think the cart is the weakest part of the technology I would never make the statement that carts only exist because of the ignorance of some users. Some people love them and make great use of them. I think they are useless and the cause for most of peoples problems. Try to digest that last part because it really is the main point I am making. You bought it, use it to learn the basics. Preferences are different so find out what you like about each component and what you don't, because you will appreciate your next purchase so much more. I only point this out because it took me a lot of swearing and complaining before I realized that I hate carts, I hate recessed atomizers, I like manual batteries (90% of the time ) and bad battery life drives me crazy. What I found after all this was that I can build the perfect system for me from the component parts that exist and even further my perfect system is not everyone elses, but it took really trying to make something work to figure this out and if somebody had told me all this I would have had MY perfect system 3 months ago. I am guessing that people who have gone through the gear bingo game would agree with this and everything else is figuring out what you like and doing your research (luckily we have a pretty solid resource for that right here).
With Love and Squalour,
Gat

 

[Kent C]

I will start with this statement because you are missing a lot of the point here for no good reason. First the 510 has the shortest battery life. It last 1- 1.5 hrs new while the others can last 2-3 hours OR since time is very relative a new 510 battery is good for an average of 80 puffs (about 5 cigarettes) , 4081= and average of 160 (about a half a pack) and the 401/pens about 200 or 200 +. This is an issue since for the folks whose habits get about an hour from the 510 can lap a PCC even with 3 batteries.

I can see this isn't going to go anywhere when you start putting out numbers that have been the contention going back way before I became a newbie here. The amount of puffs per cigarette and how that relates to vaping borders on voodoo.

My own personal experience, sinice that is evidently what you are drawing upon, is much different with regards to the battery of the 510. I was a 3 pack/day smoker and I have numerous occasions where one 510 battery has lasted me 4 hours of regular vaping. I have also had instance where they have lasted just over an hour. I have never had a case when out to where the battery I was using 'overran' the PCC.

That point aside these batteries have a shelf life. The suppliers will tell you it is 200 charges (like every thing this is exaggerated), but what that means is every charge weakens that battery. I am a pretty heavy vaper ( an ex 2pack a day full flavor camel smoker or 8 510 batteries a day IF vaping didn't have a 10% absorption rate as compared to tobacco) and I go through about 16 charges of a 510 battery a day (4 batteries in rotation with good batteries). What that means is within a month those batteries are over half dead and no longer perform at the rate a new battery does. Which means longer hits and shorter battery life which kills them even faster. Bad battery life is a logarithmic function to more cost. Of course one has to kill a few of these things before you recognize it. Basically if your habits are such that 1 or 2 batteries last you all day you are fine but anything more than that and battery life becomes very very important whether you have a PCC or not (6 hours at a party or a bar and I will kill all 3 batteries even with a PCC). Your other points are pretty fan boy or newbie and I will get them next.

If you're going to fly by what I said and misquote, then again, this won't go to far as I've got better things to do than fight against fanboy statements that misunderstood what I said in order to make your 'next point'. I never said 1 or 2 batteries last me all day. I said: "a person is likely to have 1 going and at least 2 charging" so that the idea of having to wait for a battery to charge is not a factor. In fact, I said that the 510 can last 2 or 3 hours and you obviously can do the math, so do it on that basis not on something you conjure up to fit your own bias.

And look, if you can't get by with the 510 and a PCC then fine - vape something else. There is overwhelming evidence by posts here where there are a gaggle of people that seem to get by with the 510, and again, overwhelming evidence that newbies esp. have trouble with the 4081. I don't even have to argue the point. All one has to do is read this forum daily. That evidence will trump any logarithmics and math. Save them for the guy has a mouth full of RY4 and no vapor. I'm sure he'll be convinced.

 

[master_meow]

I agree the blu is crap. Do not let the pretty colors fool you. There are some other great choices that beat that the the joy. Me personally I like the 901, but the 510 and others are good too.

 

[Kent C]

Again some people have different preferences than you, but like I mentioned before the point I was making was that this 95% mostly bought something already and they might as well learn the basics with that kit especially since every kit has all 3 components represented.

Ok. I'm going to short cut this. Not giving any points not mentioned simply because I don't have the time or willingness to address every point but therre are some that need addressed and this is one of them. I never have said (and this may not be true of everyone that advises toward the manuals whether 510 or 901) that people who have bought any other model 'should have bought the 510'. I might advise them that if they indicated that they want to try another model that the 510 would be a good choice. My emphasis was to direct people who have not yet bought anything to basically tell them my experience with the idea that if those preferences matches theirs then a manual would be a good choice. On a few rare occasions, that wasn't the right choice and in one case I gave list of links to SE cigarettes and accesories that would fit the person's preferences.

Do you hate the battery life? Then look at a big bat set up. Do you like the recessed atomizer? Then look for that set up. What do you hate about the carts? Size? placement? There are other options. Use your mistake to learn the system and in the process develop the ability to use the gear you have. The worst thing that can happen is you use your old gear as a back up once you decide.

All good questions for the person who already bought, but questions that would be meaningless to someone who hasn't. Again, I'll reiterate my original statement to you:

Informative post on what is what. I meant that. I will link to it.

Actually the inability to get a good vape before the cut off is exactly the learning curve people talk about. I can run any number of automatic batteries to their cut off and produce a ton of vapor and a good throat hit. This also makes my ability to handle a manual battery better. The 'time out' is really only a factor for those evil EVO batteries that cut off for 2 minutes (those things are the devil IMO, but I will also recognize that people who have figured them out get much better battery life. The problem is mine there). What I really disagree with is the idea that a manual battery is more efficient. If you haven't figured out how to get the most out of a battery most people just lean on the battery longer than necessary and kill it even faster.

I don't know how many times that I have said that some of the problem that people have is hanging on the button. This is another reason I can get 4 hours out of the 510. But thanks for the heads up on the EVO - no experience with that and was wondering about it.

Sorry but Spikey is right and you are wrong here.

So you are saying that people that have problems filling the 4081 are ......ed?

Because that is exactly what she said. Perhaps some of those people might want to chime in here.

It really isn't that hard to fill a 4081 cart and again this goes to the point that I made "you already bought it so use it to learn the basics". If you can fill a 4081 cart (or better yet a 401 cart) you can fill any cart and the automatic battery is not the cause for juice in the mouth, but again this is a function of using 1 organ to do 2 jobs or more likely not being very good with carts.

Ah, one of those 'it's for your own good' arguments. Ok.

Cheers.....

 

[wv2win]

........Ultimately my point was that you should learn to use whatever tool you bought because it will help you decide what to buy in the long run. This will make you happier with your future purchase because you have already beaten the learning curve. The point was not that automatic batteries are the way to go (just that they work).........Gat

This statement is the main arguement for those on this forum who advice that devices such as the RN4081, SmokeEverywhere, Blu, etc are good devices but that the problem is the user of the product. And I can agree (only to a point) that if you have the time and temperment to spend time on this type of forum and practice, you can make these devices work inconsistently, but actually provide a decent hit on occassion. I will also agree that for those who have stated that they really want to learn how to make the most out of a device like the RN4081, that there are several forum members such as Jim Davis that do a great job of providing good advice.

The point that is overlooked, by the supporters of this device, is that most people do not have the time, inclination or patience to hang on this forum and then practice auto battery vaping techniques only to end up with mediocre, inconsistent results. Those of us arguing this point on both sides, are the exception to most people who try vaping. What my experience with many local acquaintances has shown me is they have bought an SE Gold RN4081, found the inconsistency too frustrating and just go back to analogs. In other words, they are being typical "humans". When I have mentioned "learning curve" most say they don't have the time for that. Then when I let them try a manual PV where they just have to push a little button BUT can then inhale more like they did with a cigarette plus get a "hit" at least closer to the real thing, they want to try the whole "vaping thing" again.

I also find that most people who try vaping are willing to put up with the hassle of using liquid, changing batteries, etc as long as the end result is a fairly consistent "analogue like feel" that is best provided by a good manaul battery PV.

Due to "human nature" being what it is, is why I steer new members toward manual PV's. This concept "consistent results" is really part of the American mind frame. It's why businesses such as Wendys work so well. Whether you are in NJ, Ohio or Utah you know you will get the same meal at Wendys without unpleasant surprises, which thus reduces your stress level. My guess is people like us who spend too much time on this forum are probably the minority who likes variety and unexpected results. But the majority do not fit in that mind frame.

In summary, I'm not against teaching a new member how to use an auto device like the RN4081, but I do think that when it is clear they are frustrated it's incumbent upon us to let them know there are simpler, more consistent options or else for many, when we don't hear from them again, it's because they went back to analogs.

 

[VaporOnly]

In a way its good that Blu and njoy are getting the word out on e-cigs with there mass marketing but also, they repell people from ecigs with there ****ty quality and customer supports

 

[Jim Davis]

Jim, have you done a comparison in vapor production of the 4081 nicostick and the 510 with manual?

Not yet. Still waiting for my batteries to come for the stick, but I get equal vapor from my standard 4081 and the 510. I'm expecting to get the same between the stick and the passthrough, but I'll let ya know.

 

[BOREMAN]

Simple solution to all the arguments regarding the 510 vs. RN4081. TRY the Vapor King (E9 model), 2-piece cartomizer (atomizer built into the cart). Hassle free, batts last 5-8 hrs on charge, cartomizers last and maintain flavor (equivalent to 12-18 cigs), very EASY to refill the cartomizers (simply drip in the cart hole (10-15 drips), and u are good to go. Catomizers dont leak, dont get mouthful of juice, 4 hole cartomizer for very easy draw w/excellent throat hit and tremendous vapor output. I have been a major, daily VK vapor since switching and receiving the Vapor King since July 28th. No problems, no worries, no mess, always vaping my *** off. Used to be a 1-2 pack a day Marlboro Red smoker. This system more than satisfies my old analog habit. This is all IMHO and again, not a rep of this company, nor am I trying to sell this product, just a VERY SATISFIED customer of the Vapor King.

The BOREMAN -

Check it out at www.Vapor4life.com

 

[gatsby]

I can see this isn't going to go anywhere when you start putting out numbers that have been the contention going back way before I became a newbie here. The amount of puffs per cigarette and how that relates to vaping borders on voodoo.

My own personal experience, sinice that is evidently what you are drawing upon, is much different with regards to the battery of the 510. I was a 3 pack/day smoker and I have numerous occasions where one 510 battery has lasted me 4 hours of regular vaping. I have also had instance where they have lasted just over an hour. I have never had a case when out to where the battery I was using 'overran' the PCC.

The puff counts aren't voodoo. I did those myself and got pretty much the same results over and over again with different batteries from different suppliers. The comparison to cigarettes might be a little hinky. The reason I go to puff counts is that 'regular' vaping for you apparently means about 20 puffs an hour which I would consider light vaping and the reason why hrs/ per charge are the most relative and useless piece of information unless you know what that person also gets with other batteries.

If you're going to fly by what I said and misquote, then again, this won't go to far as I've got better things to do than fight against fanboy statements that misunderstood what I said in order to make your 'next point'. I never said 1 or 2 batteries last me all day. I said: "a person is likely to have 1 going and at least 2 charging" so that the idea of having to wait for a battery to charge is not a factor. In fact, I said that the 510 can last 2 or 3 hours and you obviously can do the math, so do it on that basis not on something you conjure up to fit your own bias.

And look, if you can't get by with the 510 and a PCC then fine - vape something else. There is overwhelming evidence by posts here where there are a gaggle of people that seem to get by with the 510, and again, overwhelming evidence that newbies esp. have trouble with the 4081. I don't even have to argue the point. All one has to do is read this forum daily. That evidence will trump any logarithmics and math. Save them for the guy has a mouth full of RY4 and no vapor. I'm sure he'll be convinced.

Obviously reading is FUNdamental. My point wasn't that I can't get by with the 510 and a PCC (thats for mew to fix) the point was that it is not just a question of having 2 or 3 on the charger at all times, but rather the long term effect of all that charging. The more you charge the fast you kill the battery the fast you kill it the less well it performs the more you abuse it and that snowballs. It is a little more complicated than buy another battery and a spare charger

And finally, I sure do see alot of newbie "this 510 taste horrid", "why do my carts leak"... post out there too but folks like yourself are always careful to help them with their issues while telling everyone else that they made a bad purchase. You are making many classic errors here but the most common seems to be selective attention.

 

[gatsby]

Again some people have different preferences than you, but like I mentioned before the point I was making was that this 95% mostly bought something already and they might as well learn the basics with that kit especially since every kit has all 3 components represented.

Ok. I'm going to short cut this. Not giving any points not mentioned simply because I don't have the time or willingness to address every point but therre are some that need addressed and this is one of them. I never have said (and this may not be true of everyone that advises toward the manuals whether 510 or 901) that people who have bought any other model 'should have bought the 510'. I might advise them that if they indicated that they want to try another model that the 510 would be a good choice. My emphasis was to direct people who have not yet bought anything to basically tell them my experience with the idea that if those preferences matches theirs then a manual would be a good choice. On a few rare occasions, that wasn't the right choice and in one case I gave list of links to SE cigarettes and accesories that would fit the person's preferences.



All good questions for the person who already bought, but questions that would be meaningless to someone who hasn't. Again, I'll reiterate my original statement to you:

Informative post on what is what. I meant that. I will link to it.





I don't know how many times that I have said that some of the problem that people have is hanging on the button. This is another reason I can get 4 hours out of the 510. But thanks for the heads up on the EVO - no experience with that and was wondering about it.




So you are saying that people that have problems filling the 4081 are ......ed?

Because that is exactly what she said. Perhaps some of those people might want to chime in here.



Ah, one of those 'it's for your own good' arguments. Ok.

Cheers.....

I am guessing you started to comment before your read the entirety of the post. I was directing this at someone who has already bought something they are unhappy with not at the complete new comer. I wouldn't ever recommend SE or NJOY to someone looking to make their first purchase. The point was that if you already have something it has all the components that you will be using. So take the time while you shop around to get to know those parts and in the mean time get past the learning curve so you know what to shop for and what you like and don't like, because at the very least you will have a working back up you can use (everyone needs a back up) . This was never a 510 vs. 4081 post. I know the 510 fanboys can't bare to see anything less than 510s are the greatest, they last forever and when they die they turn into strawberry icecreeam statements and seem to go blind to any other point someone makes if they mention any short comings of the 510.

Also, you are going to concentrate on the '......ed' part of Spikey's statement and ignore the main point (seems to be a pattern actually). Thats pretty freaking cheap IMO and maybe that word hits a little too close to home or something. Either way Im done.

 

[gatsby]

This statement is the main arguement for those on this forum who advice that devices such as the RN4081, SmokeEverywhere, Blu, etc are good devices but that the problem is the user of the product. And I can agree (only to a point) that if you have the time and temperment to spend time on this type of forum and practice, you can make these devices work inconsistently, but actually provide a decent hit on occassion. I will also agree that for those who have stated that they really want to learn how to make the most out of a device like the RN4081, that there are several forum members such as Jim Davis that do a great job of providing good advice.

The point that is overlooked, by the supporters of this device, is that most people do not have the time, inclination or patience to hang on this forum and then practice auto battery vaping techniques only to end up with mediocre, inconsistent results. Those of us arguing this point on both sides, are the exception to most people who try vaping. What my experience with many local acquaintances has shown me is they have bought an SE Gold RN4081, found the inconsistency too frustrating and just go back to analogs. In other words, they are being typical "humans". When I have mentioned "learning curve" most say they don't have the time for that. Then when I let them try a manual PV where they just have to push a little button BUT can then inhale more like they did with a cigarette plus get a "hit" at least closer to the real thing, they want to try the whole "vaping thing" again.

I also find that most people who try vaping are willing to put up with the hassle of using liquid, changing batteries, etc as long as the end result is a fairly consistent "analogue like feel" that is best provided by a good manaul battery PV.

Due to "human nature" being what it is, is why I steer new members toward manual PV's. This concept "consistent results" is really part of the American mind frame. It's why businesses such as Wendys work so well. Whether you are in NJ, Ohio or Utah you know you will get the same meal at Wendys without unpleasant surprises, which thus reduces your stress level. My guess is people like us who spend too much time on this forum are probably the minority who likes variety and unexpected results. But the majority do not fit in that mind frame.

In summary, I'm not against teaching a new member how to use an auto device like the RN4081, but I do think that when it is clear they are frustrated it's incumbent upon us to let them know there are simpler, more consistent options or else for many, when we don't hear from them again, it's because they went back to analogs.

I really don't know how you read my initial post and decided I was a supporter of the device. My point has always been. You have it in your hand and they won't take it back so use it to learn what you want. The other side to your point about getting frustrated and going back to analogs is that someone comes here already mad about spending too much money and then hears the same fan boy talk about another model and how easy it is to quit. They might just stop right there and figure its BS or go out and buy the new model without learning the basics and end up frustrated again (we all know no one is going to buy a prodigy as their 1st or 2nd but even if they did think about all the complaints about fried atomizers that would cause).
I don't see the issue with patience anyway. my experience was that I was ready to chuck the idea all together until I found the equivalent of Jims thread. Thats when I decided to not make a mistake the second time and spent my time reading all the reviews while playing around with the thing (it was alot easier reading all the reviews 4 months ago although back then you would hear people tell you that SE is junk so maybe go buy a PeeWee from PS even though they were the exact same device). So from frustration to new order took about a week and since I ordered from CHina it took another week to get it and in that time I learned what to expect and what not to expect. Found out a little something about my taste in juice and got past a big part of the learning curve. Most of that started with understanding that it was as much my issue as the device. I know that is just the worst advice ever and you must fight that sentiment at all costs.

 

[Kent C]

I am guessing you started to comment before your read the entirety of the post. I was directing this at someone who has already bought something they are unhappy with not at the complete new comer. I wouldn't ever recommend SE or NJOY to someone looking to make their first purchase.

And as I said, that too, was my focus. We're in agreement on this point.

Also, you are going to concentrate on the '......ed' part of Spikey's statement and ignore the main point (seems to be a pattern actually).
Thats pretty freaking cheap IMO and maybe that word hits a little too close to home or something. Either way Im done.

Spikey said what she said. You agreed. Rather than ignore the main point - filling the cart - I described the common downfalls and the reasons why, basically agreeing with your assessment that they have the worst attributes for both the atomizer and cartridge! And then you have to add the insults. Amazing....

One can describe and characterize other's ideas as one see them and avoid direct ad hominem. Since you've decided against that and attacked me directly, then we are done.