A retrospective study on the health effects of vaping

[Jode]

I guess we interpret that last line differently, then.

You should read the last line of that piece.
"Welcome to the world of propaganda: you just had your first lesson in how easy it is to convince the general population to believe the opposite of the truth."
That piece was satire.

You sure did, you may want to read again yourself. This is a piece that shows the political propaganda of myths and disputes them or exposes them as lies with the truth underneath. You seem to be interpreting the whole piece as satire based on that last line, but what would be the point of myth busting if the whole piece was satire? Others that read that see that it is those myths that were just disputed that are the opposite of the truth. I read this as I will show you the myths you have been fed, expose them with the truth, and then let you think "Oh, ya, I did feed into that myth but now I know better and will do my own research before jumping to belief simply because I read propaganda." That's how I see it and it is a great piece. All one has to do is read the first line (The amount of propaganda surrounding nicotine is considerable. Below, the most-often quoted myths created by the propaganda are examined.) with the two last lines (Everything you thought you knew about nicotine is probably not only wrong, it is most likely the opposite of the truth.
Welcome to the world of propaganda: you just had your first lesson in how easy it is to convince the general population to believe the opposite of the truth.)
to see this is clearly myth busting of political propaganda. My

 

[bluecat]

Thanks for your study. I haven't had a chance to read it but will as time allows. I am not a doc but a lot of my clients are and there hasn't been a single one that has said not to switch from smoking to vaping. Some of them are interested. I think mainly because they use our time as an escape from the hospitals. Others are in and out of my office as quick as they can get out.

One thing I would like to add is that flavorings are personal. After 3 years of vaping I have stuck with the tobacco flavors. I like that taste vs the fruity and bakery types. I make my own liquids and never is a batch the same as previously made. I vape a lot of unflavored as well mainly because I have permanent vapors tongue. Right now I am enjoying a 6 tobacco graham cracker vanilla Carmel chocolate blend.

I really hope at some point the medical community as well as the politicians take this up at some point with real enthusiasm. I am sad to say with HCR and the way money is passed along through medicare many docs that rely on that money may get steered away. Granted it is the lowest form of payback but it is a big chunk of the dollars.

Welcome to the forums.

 

[Dr. Robert Cranfield]

Thanks for your study. I haven't had a chance to read it but will as time allows. I am not a doc but a lot of my clients are and there hasn't been a single one that has said not to switch from smoking to vaping. Some of them are interested. I think mainly because they use our time as an escape from the hospitals. Others are in and out of my office as quick as they can get out.

One thing I would like to add is that flavorings are personal. After 3 years of vaping I have stuck with the tobacco flavors. I like that taste vs the fruity and bakery types. I make my own liquids and never is a batch the same as previously made. I vape a lot of unflavored as well mainly because I have permanent vapors tongue. Right now I am enjoying a 6 tobacco graham cracker vanilla Carmel chocolate blend.

I really hope at some point the medical community as well as the politicians take this up at some point with real enthusiasm. I am sad to say with HCR and the way money is passed along through medicare many docs that rely on that money may get steered away. Granted it is the lowest form of payback but it is a big chunk of the dollars.

Welcome to the forums.

Wow. That's some flavor you are vaping.
Unfortunately I've seen people who tell me their physician has advised them that vaping is more dangerous than smoking. It's common, actually. There are a lot of people who seem to be misinformed because they rely on the shock headlines.

 

[Sirius]

Wow. That's some flavor you are vaping.
Unfortunately I've seen people who tell me their physician has advised them that vaping is more dangerous than smoking. It's common, actually. There are a lot of people who seem to be misinformed because they rely on the shock headlines.

Then sorry,..but I would say that is wrong.. So far evidence is that harmful carcinogens that are released when tobacco is smoked far out weighs what you get from eliquid heated into vapor and vaped. In fact there is a diacetyl / diketone debate going on at this time and although there is no proof that either is harmful when vaped...I have a suspicion that they are not as harmful as some think,..but I choose not to vape either.

I really wasn't aware that the medical community was that uninformed..My doctors are very pleased that I stopped smoking and seem to be of the opinion that vaping hasn't done anything so far to hurt me. Two years in come August!

 

[Robino1]

I really wasn't aware that the medical community was that uninformed

Unfortunately, there are doctors that would rather listen to the pharmaceutical companies and get the freebies that they provide over common sense.

It is the nature of the beast called Greed.

 

[Sirius]

Unfortunately, there are doctors that would rather listen to the pharmaceutical companies and get the freebies that they provide over common sense.

It is the nature of the beast called Greed.

I recon so Robin.

 

[Caro123]

I of course feel the need to contribute my 2 cents worth it would seem to me ( personal experience and observation) that many young people attempted to self medicate with tobacco b/c tobacco alleviated tension, minor depression, anxiety, focused attention, alleviated hunger etc. (supported by your link to NEJM article re nicotine addiction) issues that I believe to be true ( but not covered in the NEJM abstract) -vast majority of young smokers were from a lower socioeconomic background. Tobacco use has dropped from Over 50 percent of Canadians prior to 1965 to about 20 % today but at the same time while tobacco use has diminished that smokable other product use has skyrocketed. I believe there is a connection.

genetics a factor -yep probably bigger than has been alluded to
overwhelming use among those with mental health disorders -absolutely true But the anti depressant style meds did not work any better as NRT

Traditional NRT has a very low quit rate -Vaping , even without the support of powers that be, shows phenomenal promise and effectiveness.

Tobacco use is a complex issue both physical and psychological and IMO the past fifty years of tobacco control ( lies, propaganda, taxation etc,) has totally missed the boat and done far more harm than good

 

[awsum140]

I did read, sort of anyway, that entire article. I also looked at almost every related link that was on the page. Most of the article, and the references, may as well have been written in Sanscrit or Ancient Martian from my perspective as a layman. One thing I was able to glean is that at least 80 or 85 percent of the references, again, talk about addiction to nicotine as related to smoking, not as a standalone substance. I again have to mention all the "enhancements" used in modern cigarettes that "improve" the effects of nicotine on humans.

There are many descriptions of how nicotine effects the brain and causes a reward or pleasure sensation. That could certainly make it addictive, but I couldn't determine the strength of the effect due to not fully understanding the verbiage used. I again have to mention that many, many, foods, substances and actions also produce similar, or the same, effects on the human brain and are not considered "addictive" or may be considered mildly "addictive".

In everything I read, and semi-understood, there didn't seem to be any study or reference to nicotine only. Everything seemed to be based on smoking and its' effects on health and including nicotine as the driver for smoking.

I'd love to find something authoritative, reference able, peer reviewed and in language the average layman can easily understand stating that nicotine is addictive and demonstrating how that conclusion was reached.

As a layman with an interest in determining the real level that nicotine may be addictive, I am keeping an open mind. I'm not convinced, totally, either way. It does demonstrate properties that could easily lead to addiction in some people, perhaps genetically related, but so do a whole host of other things.

 

[VNeil]

This is actually quite a fun discussion. I love to people watch. Learning how people create opinions is fascinating. Let me throw another article out for opinions.

Addiction to the nicotine gum in never smokers

My take on that study...
1. Much adieu about a statistically insignificant sample (2 or 5 people???)
2. It relied on that statistically insignificant sample of laymen to differentiate between an addiction and a strong desire to control their moderate to severe depression. Those few people received tremendous benefit from nicotine.
That study mainly suggests to me that more research needs to be done on the benefits of nicotine in treating depression. And considering all the significant negative side effects attributed to conventional depression medications it is probably a study well worth funding.

 

[Dr. Robert Cranfield]

I did read, sort of anyway, that entire article. I also looked at almost every related link that was on the page. Most of the article, and the references, may as well have been written in Sanscrit or Ancient Martian from my perspective as a layman. One thing I was able to glean is that at least 80 or 85 percent of the references, again, talk about addiction to nicotine as related to smoking, not as a standalone substance. I again have to mention all the "enhancements" used in modern cigarettes that "improve" the effects of nicotine on humans.

There are many descriptions of how nicotine effects the brain and causes a reward or pleasure sensation. That could certainly make it addictive, but I couldn't determine the strength of the effect due to not fully understanding the verbiage used. I again have to mention that many, many, foods, substances and actions also produce similar, or the same, effects on the human brain and are not considered "addictive" or may be considered mildly "addictive".

In everything I read, and semi-understood, there didn't seem to be any study or reference to nicotine only. Everything seemed to be based on smoking and its' effects on health and including nicotine as the driver for smoking.

I'd love to find something authoritative, reference able, peer reviewed and in language the average layman can easily understand stating that nicotine is addictive and demonstrating how that conclusion was reached.

As a layman with an interest in determining the real level that nicotine may be addictive, I am keeping an open mind. I'm not convinced, totally, either way. It does demonstrate properties that could easily lead to addiction in some people, perhaps genetically related, but so do a whole host of other things.

Articles related to the actual science of addiction, regardless of the chemical involved, will be difficult to understand because they will refer to neuroreceptors that even among the medical profession, are not well known. It doesn't mean the information is wron, inaccurate, misleading, or propoganda. It is just like any other field. If I went into an auto repair shop, they would be talking a language I wouldn't understand unless I spent a lot of time there. They understand between themselves what they are saying. But someone from the outside would only hear Charlie Browns teacher going waa, waa, waa.

 

[mattiem]

2. It relied on that statistically insignificant sample of laymen to differentiate between an addiction and a strong desire to control their moderate to severe depression. Those few people received tremendous benefit from nicotine.
That study mainly suggests to me that more research needs to be done on the benefits of nicotine in treating depression. And considering all the significant negative side effects attributed to conventional depression medications it is probably a study well worth funding.

And this, I think, is why back in the earlier days (40's 50's), back before so many extra things were added to the tobacco, doctors suggested smokes for those with depression. They knew even then that there were healing/helping properties in the nicotine.

 

[choochoogranny]

Depression? Smoking really took off in the 1930's, a really "depressing time." The early 1940's was no cake walk either followed by the Korean War/Police Action. No "safety net" during that time.....No Great Society. Even kids worked and contributed to the family funds. All before the new fangled pharmaceutial "feel good" drugs were available and so prevalent today. Why there are ads on TV that say you may be depressed; and if you are, here's the drug that will solve that problem. Legal drug pushers with deep pockets. Don't worry. Be happy!

 

[choochoogranny]

Um, one more thing that I wonder about.....How many people die using their drugs for depression vs people who die from smoking?

 

[Jman8]

This is a good scientific read about what happened to cigarettes post 1970. It's shameful. Tobacco companies call it things like "experience enhancing" additives or whatever but the real comparison is more like taking a cup of coffee and turning it into {Other Stuff}. Cigarette smoking addiction/habit and pure nicotine addiction/habit are apples to oranges in my opinion and nobody can convince me otherwise.

Pharmacological and Chemical Effects of Cigarette Additives

This is essentially the ANTZ take on what BT did from circa 1962 and on. There's another side to this story, and I find it to be more accurate, more intuitive. I'd suggest just dig up the research yourself, but will post links if people are either denying it's around or are too lazy to do that sort of research. Essentially though ANTZ was attacking tar, and BT lowered tar with idea of then increasing nicotine. I find that most people, like 99.9% of people, either deny that BT did this in response to ANTZ actions or are at level of denying that ANTZ played any role in how things got to where they were (or perhaps still are) with BT.

I'm very surprised that any politically aware vaper would be at this level of denial.

 

[Bob Chill]

This is essentially the ANTZ take on what BT did from circa 1962 and on. There's another side to this story, and I find it to be more accurate, more intuitive. I'd suggest just dig up the research yourself, but will post links if people are either denying it's around or are too lazy to do that sort of research. Essentially though ANTZ was attacking tar, and BT lowered tar with idea of then increasing nicotine. I find that most people, like 99.9% of people, either deny that BT did this in response to ANTZ actions or are at level of denying that ANTZ played any role in how things got to where they were (or perhaps still are) with BT.

I'm very surprised that any politically aware vaper would be at this level of denial.

The only point I was trying to make is that modern cigarettes have been engineered and perfected to create an addiction far beyond nicotine. The intense grip is no fluke. The hows and whys aren't even that relevant to my point. If I posted ANTZ backed stuff then so be it. After struggling with my only real addiction in life for decades and watching so many around me do the same, the root cause is fairly dark and evil. Even as an educated adult with full knowledge of how the story plays out, it didn't matter. Without any knowledge of what's in cigarettes at all, it's not hard to draw the conclusion that the hooks sink deep for many and they are hard as heck to pull out. Nicotine itself is not capable of that.

 

[awsum140]

An interesting take on vaping by a real, recognized, governmental agency...just not a US governmental agency -

E-cigarettes: an evidence update - Publications - GOV.UK