About Cinnamon Flavoring

[Razloz]

So I'm a little concerned about storing my cinnamon flavoring in the plastic bottle it came in, thinking about transferring it to a glass bottle. I'm not sure what it is about cinnamon but had a batch of cinnamon red hots flavor juice that I got from a vendor that went bad after like 15 days. It seemed like it broke down the plastic bottle and had traces of it floating on top (assuming that's what it was, was definitely a darker layer of liquid floating). My fiancee said the taste got really bad too before she noticed it. Has anyone else experienced anything like this with cinnamon flavors or any flavors for that matter?

 

[favor1]

Don't use it, it probably contains cinnamon oil, which has really hurt some people who have tried it. It's not good for your teeth (people have reported cavities and a plethora of other health issues with cinnamon oil). Cinnamon oil contains aldehydes which are highly reactive and who knows what they do in your body. Also, the plastics the cinnamon reacted with are most likely not good for your body either, so I would stay away from them. I think the chemist on the forum "Kurt" wrote something about the plastics being very unhealthy if they dissolved in e-liquid and that he doesn't even use plastic bottles although I would have to dig up the thread to be sure.

 

[Razloz]

Yea I immediately threw it away and told her to stop vaping it once I saw what had happened. At the moment cinnamon is the only thing that takes care of her cravings for a real cig though so I dunno. Hopefully I can mix up something that she likes (got 18 different flavors and my base nic and vg should be here in a few days). Got two different cinnamon flavors from TPA, but is cinnamon in general not safe to vape? Anything that can dissolve plastic like that has me worried.

 

[favor1]

Yea I immediately threw it away and told her to stop vaping it once I saw what had happened. At the moment cinnamon is the only thing that takes care of her cravings for a real cig though so I dunno. Hopefully I can mix up something that she likes (got 18 different flavors and my base nic and vg should be here in a few days). Got two different cinnamon flavors from TPA, but is cinnamon in general not safe to vape? Anything that can dissolve plastic like that has me worried.

I wouldn't use anything that is called cinnamon and contains "natural flavors," as there is a high possibility of cinnamon oil being in it. If you are using TPA flavors, I would recommend 10 ml Cinnamon Spice Flavor as it contains artificial flavors, so cinnamaldehyde should not be there, but their "Red Hots" flavor does contain it and it even mentions it on the site so it is something I would avoid. I don't mean to bash TPA, in fact most of my flavors are from TPA, but I would avoid naturally flavored cinnamon flavors like the plague. This is the TPA flavor that contains the cinnamaldehyde: 10 ml Cinnamon Redhots

 

[favor1]

Here is some info on cinnamaledhyde pulled of the wiki, LS, and some chemistry sites:

The most obvious application for cinnamaldehyde is as flavoring in items like chewing gum, ice cream, candy, and beverages range from 9 to 4900ppm(parts per million) (that is, less than 0.5%). It is also used in some perfumes of natural, sweet, or fruity scents. - Wiki

Some people are allergic to natural essential oils. Allergic reactions can be similar in nature to the skin irritation caused by applying oil directly to the skin, such as redness or irritation. Some people develop symptoms of contact sensitivity, such as rashes or hives. - LS

Also, here is Kurt's post from ECF

"MrNate: in theory you are correct, that cracking plastic is not necessarily an indicator of lung damage, it could just be thermal effects. And I do appreciate the rigor of trying to separate and understand the effects. But it is known that cinnamaldehyde is dangerous to the lungs. Don't have the links at my disposal now, but it is known. And there is a big difference to me between leaching plasticisers, which leads to cracking of plastic and makes you vape plasticisers too, and etching plastic, which is a breakdown of the polymer itself. Plus the lungs have their own surfactant, and inhaling others, like citrus oils, can disrupt that important barrier, if not dissolve lipid bilayers, as in cells. Lots of bio stuff dissolves in them, as well as some polymer compounds, as Katya said.

But, hey, for some these flavors are just too important, and thus vaping them, regardless of risk, is rationalized to be imperative. They are all legal, and people can vape whatever they want. Yes, I am a PhD chemist with 30 years of advanced training in physical, organic, biophysics, bio-inorganic, and theoretical research and teaching. I personally will not vape these oils, for the many reasons I and Katya have stated, based on my knowledge of them chemically, and the tissues they interact with. I don't think any of these are implicated in irreversible lung damage, like that caused by diacetyl, but there could be incremental and sustained lung impairment, which I thought was what we were trying to avoid by vaping.

Flavors are the Achilles heal of vaping, in my opinion. There are many wacky flavors out there that use compounds which are fine for foods, like meat flavors, but use compounds like organic acids, aldehydes and long-chain esters which really have been shown to be a significant risk to lung tissue, similar to diacetyl. "

 

[yardbyrd]

I've only been mixing for a few months but really like it. I inherited a bottle of Cinnamon flavoring and thought, "It might add a nice touch to this mix." I've only lost 10 ml of yecchy e-liquid (just not vapeable at all) and half of this was due to bad Cinnamon flavoring. I threw out the entire bottle of this flavoring.

 

[Razloz]

I ordered both the Cinnamon Redhot and the Cinnamon Spice flavors. More than likely will be throwing out the Redhot one from what you guys are saying. ^^;

 

[favor1]

I think it would be good to include Kurt's other post here as well. I like to read his responses because he has a lot of info on these kinds of issues:

Kurt's post

"I think the issue here is not acidity, it is the nature of the oils themselves. Cinnamon oil (cinnamaldehyde) can leach plasticisers from plastics, and will dissolve some plastics, both can lead to cracking. Orange oil can do this too. Anything that is good as dissolving grease can do this to plastics. Its what is in orange cleaner products.

And yes, they are also implicated in lung damage, especially cinnamon. Many here get mouth and throat irritation or mouth ulcers from cinnamon juices. Actually, IMHO it should not be sold for vaping. Aldehydes in general are problematic, but cinnamaldehyde especially so. Its rather corrosive. Some have no problems with it. I can't do cinnamon hardly at all, even candy. It will make my mouth raw.

Acids are actually less a problem for most plastics. These oils are in general not acids, but they do interact with plastic and plastic components. Clove oil is another plastic dissolver. Try grinding some cloves in a coffee grinder with a plastic lid and see what happens, if the plastic was smooth and shiny before grinding, it won't be after wards...it will be etched...then imagine this happening in your lungs. I don't know about the mint oils, but the citrus, clove and cinnamon oils can be a problem."

 

[otrpu]

Never had any problem storing Cinnamon in the container it came it, but have lost many a clear carto's and clear tanks to it. Now, I just gave it up. Not convinced inhaling all that Cinnamon is good for me anyway. JMHO

Cheers,
otrpu

 

[favor1]

Never had any problem storing Cinnamon in the container it came it, but have lost many a clear carto's and clear tanks to it. Now, I just gave it up. Not convinced inhaling all that Cinnamon is good for me anyway. JMHO

Cheers,
otrpu

You're using glass right? I think most high-quality plastic are resistant to it as well but some of the soft E-Liquid bottles may be affected me thinks. Pulled this off the wikipedia:

"One of the main problems of polyethelyne is that without special treatment it is not biodegradable, and thus accumulates."

 

[otrpu]

Nope, my Cinnamon came in plastic bottles. My nic comes in glass though. JMHO

Cheers,
otrpu

 

[Kurt]

Flavor1, thanks for pulling up my old posts on cinnamon.

If the juice bottle is a cloudy soft squeeze bottle, it is likely polyethylene, and is not likely to dissolve or crack, to my knowledge. If someone has contradictory info, please post, but PE is used for non-reactive storage of particularly corrosive compounds.

If the bottle was very clear plastic and a bit stiffer than usual, it could be polycarbonate which is susceptible to corrosives like cinnamaldehyde. Clearos are probably this too, thus the cracking and general plastic taste of them (plasticizers).

All my DIY bottles are polyethylene from USPlastics. Glass is of course the ultimate storage material for juices, but less convenient for day-to-day usage. I use it for long-term storage.

 

[Kurt]

I think the chemist on the forum "Kurt" wrote something about the plastics being very unhealthy if they dissolved in E-Liquid and that he doesn't even use plastic bottles although I would have to dig up the thread to be sure.

Just to be clear: glass for long-term storage, PE dropper bottles for everyday usage. I'm learning as I go too, and very early posts by me may have not been correct after further research. Such is the case for virtually all science. It evolves with new data.

 

[Razloz]

I'm still waiting on my VG and 50mg nicotine/PG solution to arrive then I can start on my mixing. I got a buncha 15ml glass bottles with glass dropper lids, don't like using plastic at all tbh but it's convenient for traveling. Although I'm pretty much strictly a carto user so that doesn't come up much anymore. I'm pretty excited to be getting into making my own ejuice. After looking over my flavor assortment a lot of them have natural flavors, this isn't a bad thing is it? For my starting flavors I got apple, banana nut bread, blueberry (extra), cinnamon redhots (in the trash now lol), cinnamon spice, double chocolate, french vanilla, mango, lemon, green apple, menthol liquid (pg), pear, pineapple, root beer, and strawberry, all from TPA. Also got super strength mango, strawberry, and creme de menthe, from LorAnn. Seemed like a pretty good setup to get things going with, after reading a buncha stuff kinda worried about the pineapple and lemon though.

Oh and just wanted to thank everyone for their feedback it's been a huge help!

 

[crazydogjack]

I tried the cinnamon flavor and I ended up with all kind of issues. My teeth hurt really bad and I ended up with two cavities. I am 47 years old and never had a filling in my teeth...go to the dentist twice a year so within a 6 month span I ended up with two fillings. I haven't touched any liquid that has cinnamon ever since and my teeth are fine now. My advice is to stay away from it and choose another flavor. I am vaping spearmint right now, have been for months and all is well.

 

[favor1]

I'm still waiting on my VG and 50mg nicotine/PG solution to arrive then I can start on my mixing. I got a buncha 15ml glass bottles with glass dropper lids, don't like using plastic at all tbh but it's convenient for traveling. Although I'm pretty much strictly a carto user so that doesn't come up much anymore. I'm pretty excited to be getting into making my own ejuice. After looking over my flavor assortment a lot of them have natural flavors, this isn't a bad thing is it? For my starting flavors I got apple, banana nut bread, blueberry (extra), cinnamon redhots (in the trash now lol), cinnamon spice, double chocolate, french vanilla, mango, lemon, green apple, menthol liquid (pg), pear, pineapple, root beer, and strawberry, all from TPA. Also got super strength mango, strawberry, and creme de menthe, from LorAnn. Seemed like a pretty good setup to get things going with, after reading a buncha stuff kinda worried about the pineapple and lemon though.

Oh and just wanted to thank everyone for their feedback it's been a huge help!

Not all natural flavors are harmful, they should actually be healthier than artificial, at least in foods, but cinnamon is an exception. It's healthy to eat however, just not to vape the oil of it because of the cinnamaldehyde. I've been vaping eucalyptus for quite some time, which is an essential oil (I use it at tiny concentrations), and it's truly amazing (clears my sinuses and doesn't give the "ice cube in throat feeling").