About Low Resistance and Specific batteries

[dale1962]

Sorry about some of the stupid question's earlier in thread have done a little research now on atomizer's and realize shouldn't use regular batts with anything 2.5ohm or less...but by looking at hoog's site still can't really tell if I have 1.7 or 2.5 or 3.2 atty.But I will be calling Hoog next week to go get another order at shop and take the atty I have and I'm sure he will straigten me out...but whatever kind of atty I got it's killer on my riva direct dripping!!

 

[Vaporologist]

If you don't already, it would be beneficial to own a Digital Multimeter (DMM). It would enable you to easily check your atty's resistance. It's something you should do will all new atties to make sure that ohms are exactly what they are supposed to be and that the atty is not DOA.

You can pick up a really good one for a good price here Hongda DT95B Pocket DMM Volt Meter

 

[VPJUNKIE510]

honestly i belive it has to do with the company that build's it i have a real joye riva branded been using it 4 month's with Lr carto's and atty's no problem but they killed my hello 1 month into it sad sad situation so i purchased another riva got it killed it sae day i went back to the site to realize not authentic knock off crap like knock off prada purse the women buy in nyc on the side of the road so now i stick with my rough stack love that thing takes a 18350 love em

 

[MaxUT]

Yep, build quality matters. I think the genuine Joyes are made with better components.

I'd like to try a Rough Stack but they take an 18350 and hey, I'm already running 5 different battery chargers!

 

[greenie]

Great thread. Great explanations.

 

[Pamster]

What about the Janty Stick with its IMR 10440 battery? Can it do LR 801 atty's? I apologize for asking at all, but we just got one and I was thinking about getting a LR 801 atty for it, just assumed it would work. I am glad you guys are talking about this, people seem to think the mosfet batts (Riva/Ego/Hello) can do the LR atty's and this is the first I heard of what I had suspected when hearing how awesome LR atty's are. I had a feeling it would kill the batts sooner then they otherwise would have lasted with regular 510 atty's. Thanks for the information!

 

[bsoplinger]

The 10440 has a rather low C rating compared to larger batteries. That said a 10440 isn't too expensive to replace so I'd be quite willing to risk one to see.

BUT…

I'd be curious if the circuitry in the Stick would be problematic though. I'd guess it has the same fancier mosfet circuitry that you find in the typical Chinese product like an eGo or Riva. If so then it'd be subject to the same problems also.

After all, if you tear open a eGo battery you will find a small custom sized lithium battery, a small circuit board that controls both the charging of the battery and its discharge when the switch is pressed and a switch. Pretty much exactly what is in the Stick except the lithium battery isn't some custom battery but a more readily available 10440.

 

[Pamster]

Thanks bsoplinger, I kinda wondered since it's only a 350 mAH. I think he'll just stick to the regular 801 atty's then. Would hate to mess up a battery or more importantly the stick.

 

[wolfiebeast]

I have been using LR atty's on my Janty stick both 510 and 306. I started on the LR 510's when they first came out. To this day I have not had a problem using them. I do a little thing that I call a refresh on my batt's. Once a week or so, I change the batt's out and recharge on the wall charger. It seems to work for me.

 

[Shotline]

You know, I am really ...... off reading this thread. Some suppliers have sold us a bill of goods with these LR attys. Heck, the eGo kit I bought CAME WITH an LR atty. Now I am sitting here with 4 dead batteries in one day. They have been working for 2-3 months and I guess I should be glad they lasted that long, but damn it I hate it when you follow the instructions only to find out the instructions were all wrong.

And good luck trying to get something replaced after 3 months right?

So, question to Mad Vapes, can LR attys be used with the rough stack I just ordered? Because I got 10 LR attys sitting here and only 4 regular attys.

Never mind MadVapes (unless your website is in error), your site says the Rough Stack kit I just ordered that includes 2 18350 batteries will work with LR attys. If it burns out I will expect a replacement.

 

[Drozd]

What about the Janty Stick with its IMR 10440 battery? Can it do LR 801 atty's? I apologize for asking at all, but we just got one and I was thinking about getting a LR 801 atty for it, just assumed it would work. I am glad you guys are talking about this, people seem to think the mosfet batts (Riva/Ego/Hello) can do the LR atty's and this is the first I heard of what I had suspected when hearing how awesome LR atty's are. I had a feeling it would kill the batts sooner then they otherwise would have lasted with regular 510 atty's. Thanks for the information!

first off the 10440 IMRs are only the BDL ones that are a cheaper quality battery...at that size really the entire concept of IMR for our purposes is a joke... you'd be better off in the long run with the 10440 size battery to just buy cheap ones run them as long as possible with the LR and replace them...
either way you're not going to hit the full capacity of what the LR can do...

here's the math problems... Amp draw = voltage/resistance
and then the max drain rate of the battery =mAh rating (in A) * C rating....
if the max drain rate doesn't meet or exceed the amp draw you're going to be overstressing the battery and killing it and you'll be getting voltage sag...

so even the BDL 10440 IMR.... those are like 350mAh at 3C ... so a max of 1.05A
the amp draw of a 2Ω atty at 3.7V is 1.85A

so they're pointless batteries...

You know, I am really ...... off reading this thread. Some suppliers have sold us a bill of goods with these LR attys. Heck, the eGo kit I bought CAME WITH an LR atty. Now I am sitting here with 4 dead batteries in one day. They have been working for 2-3 months and I guess I should be glad they lasted that long, but damn it I hate it when you follow the instructions only to find out the instructions were all wrong.

And good luck trying to get something replaced after 3 months right?

So, question to Mad Vapes, can LR attys be used with the rough stack I just ordered? Because I got 10 LR attys sitting here and only 4 regular attys.

Never mind MadVapes (unless your website is in error), your site says the Rough Stack kit I just ordered that includes 2 18350 batteries will work with LR attys. If it burns out I will expect a replacement.

the Roughstack won't burn out... but the LR atties WILL kill the 18350 batteries over time.... you'd have been better off with a mini vapestack and some AW IMR 16340 batteries...or something that ran an 18650... or a box mod that ran 14500 (and using the AW IMR 14500)

3 batteries and 3 batteries only that are going to push LR atties (to their capability)without damaging the battery...
about any 18650
AW IMR 16340
AW IMR 14500
and that's the cold truth of it...

 

[Pamster]

Thanks for the information Drozd, I appreciate it. We are getting a riva soon and I just hate to think that we would have messed up the batteries with it by buying into this whole LR movement with the Ego/Riva's. I just had a feeling it wasn't good for the batteries when people raved about how much vapor they push out. I hope vendors stop selling them in the starter kits, I have seen a couple vendors including them with the kits and that's just not cool, you know?

 

[Drozd]

Thanks for the information Drozd, I appreciate it. We are getting a riva soon and I just hate to think that we would have messed up the batteries with it by buying into this whole LR movement with the Ego/Riva's. I just had a feeling it wasn't good for the batteries when people raved about how much vapor they push out. I hope vendors stop selling them in the starter kits, I have seen a couple vendors including them with the kits and that's just not cool, you know?

right but then it really just comes down to a calculated risk thing you know...some users feel that the benefits outweigh the dangers...and I think they should definitely not be part of a starter kit...

the thing about LR is that the entire purpose of them was to replicate the heat that you'd get off of a 5V+ mod while still using 3.7V batteries thus avoiding some of the problems with stacking batteries... but you only really see the huge jump in performance when using them on an appropriate battery (the 3 I mentioned)... while it does boost heat slightly on the eGo type batteries...it's not that dramatic to really say it makes that huge of a difference...
here's the numbers:
510 atty on a 3.1V battery (ego/riva/the like)..... 4.18W
510 atty on a appropriate 3.7V battery.............. 5.95W
1.5Ω atty on a 3.1V battery........................... 6.41W
1.5Ω atty on a 3.7V battery........................... 9.13W

and if you're not using a 1.5Ω LR atty but ones in the 1.7Ω - 2Ω range... the line in differences become more blurred and less dramatic (ie a 1.7Ω -2Ω so called LR atty is actually less heat than a regular 510 on a real 3.7V battery (1.7Ω-5.65W, 1.8Ω-5.34W, 2Ω-4.81W)

What I'm getting at is that we're victims of hype... yeah it was all about the LR atty and yes it makes a big difference... the 1.5Ω ones....but then everyone gets into the game and puts out 1.7, 1.8, 2.0Ω ones....and tops that with aplications that they really weren't intended for because of the perception that they do better without understanding the how and why... and really they could be doing better with a product that was available before the LR atty...nut yes when broken down the 1.5Ω atty on a LiMN high drain battery works and IS a big jump in performance....but a 1.8Ω one on a riva?...pointless...I can get better preformance out of a cheap box mod with a standard atty..

 

[Pamster]

I agree, it's not cool all around since many vendors probably end up having to replace the batteries that aren't really defective just burnt to toast by the use of LR atty's....That's not cool...I hope more people recognize this problem and get off LR train. I would rather have a battery then a dead battery.

 

[jcamacho]

first off the 10440 IMRs are only the BDL ones that are a cheaper quality battery...at that size really the entire concept of IMR for our purposes is a joke... you'd be better off in the long run with the 10440 size battery to just buy cheap ones run them as long as possible with the LR and replace them...
either way you're not going to hit the full capacity of what the LR can do...

here's the math problems... Amp draw = voltage/resistance
and then the max drain rate of the battery =mAh rating (in A) * C rating....
if the max drain rate doesn't meet or exceed the amp draw you're going to be overstressing the battery and killing it and you'll be getting voltage sag...

so even the BDL 10440 IMR.... those are like 350mAh at 3C ... so a max of 1.05A
the amp draw of a 2Ω atty at 3.7V is 1.85A

so they're pointless batteries...




the Roughstack won't burn out... but the LR atties WILL kill the 18350 batteries over time.... you'd have been better off with a mini vapestack and some AW IMR 16340 batteries...or something that ran an 18650... or a box mod that ran 14500 (and using the AW IMR 14500)

3 batteries and 3 batteries only that are going to push LR atties (to their capability)without damaging the battery...
about any 18650
AW IMR 16340
AW IMR 14500
and that's the cold truth of it...

Drozd, you're the man! The only one I respect when it comes to any battery related issue. Thanks for information on this very important topic and being honest with us.

 

[Jim211]

I got a few new lr cartomizers that on the meter read .2 ohms thats almost a short and even a imr will fry. I put protection circuits in my mods that limit the damage to the battery but I did fry a protection circuit with a shorted cartomizer. 2 out of 5 on last order were shorted internally.

 

[MaxUT]

... while it does boost heat slightly on the eGo type batteries...it's not that dramatic to really say it makes that huge of a difference...

I'm not looking for a huge difference when I use an LR atty on my eGo batt, just increased vapor production from a small device which is convenient to pack around. I'm not trying to duplicate a 5V experience; if I craved that, then I'd just pull out my Prodigy or crank up my Buzz.

and if you're not using a 1.5Ω LR atty but ones in the 1.7Ω - 2Ω range... the line in differences become more blurred and less dramatic (ie a 1.7Ω -2Ω so called LR atty is actually less heat than a regular 510 on a real 3.7V battery (1.7Ω-5.65W, 1.8Ω-5.34W, 2Ω-4.81W)

I prefer the 1.8 - 2.0Ω attys... they're longer-lasting than the 1.5s and less susceptible to developing a burnt taste when using carts.

My eGo batteries are 7 months old and have been used with LR attys every day for 6 months. So far, so good.

 

[hoogie76]

Drozd, you're the man! The only one I respect when it comes to any battery related issue. Thanks for information on this very important topic and being honest with us.

Have to agree. Thanks drozd for contributing your knowledge to this thread. Very informative stuff

hoog

 

[LowThudd]

I'm not looking for a huge difference when I use an LR atty on my eGo batt, just increased vapor production from a small device which is convenient to pack around. I'm not trying to duplicate a 5V experience; if I craved that, then I'd just pull out my Prodigy or crank up my Buzz.



I prefer the 1.8 - 2.0Ω attys... they're longer-lasting than the 1.5s and less susceptible to developing a burnt taste when using carts.

My eGo batteries are 7 months old and have been used with LR attys every day for 6 months. So far, so good.

You should really try the eGo mega attys if all you want is more vapor and flavor. Check out the eGo specific forum for more details on the.

 

[Drozd]

Have to agree. Thanks drozd for contributing your knowledge to this thread. Very informative stuff

hoog

no problem...I do want to say that I had some reservations about posting that all here...because it does sound like I'm down on some of your products...but I do believe that much of it is about customers making informed consent...yes I'd like to see people more informed about their battery choices, how in some cases LR atties are pointless or at least not the holy grail of performance that some see them as...and understand how it all works together..if people would learn just a little more about batteries beyond protected > unprotected, more mAh is always better, and whats cheap....there'd be much happier people

that being said I'm running a box mod built from parts on your site....with an AW IMR 14500 battery and a cisco LR306 debridged atty...and a home made Drip tip....one of the best little devices I've owned...and cheap too...