About to Order 10x10ml Flavor Pack... Suggestions?

[aprioristic]

I might have to jump at the TW price changes so want to be prepared. I just read a bunch about these flavors, but am a little sad I am missing out on the fancy glass bottles.

Anyways, this is what I have right now that I am pretty set on liking and/or found reviews of:

Decadent Vapours 10ml Flavour Concentrates: Parma violet
Decadent Vapours 10ml Flavour Concentrates: Sour Cherry
Decadent Vapours 10ml Flavour Concentrates: Nanna Mint
Decadent Vapours 10ml Flavour Concentrates: Tiramisu
Decadent Vapours 10ml Flavour Concentrates: Custard

These are the ones I am on the fence on:


Decadent Vapours 10ml Flavour Concentrates: Apple Decadent Vapours 10ml Flavour Concentrates: Apricot
Decadent Vapours 10ml Flavour Concentrates: Doppio Espresso
Decadent Vapours 10ml Flavour Concentrates: Blackberry
Decadent Vapours 10ml Flavour Concentrates: Praline


Others I were considering but don't know much about:

Black Forest Gateau
Banana (assuming it is realistic. I had candy flavoring somewhere else and didn't like it.)
Lime Zinger
Orange Blossom/Liquer
Raspberry
Roasted Nut (what nut?)

Of course I am open to other suggestions, but kind of not interested in alcohols/tobaccos without some earthshattering review.

I'm kind of worried about the stickiness/crystals in samples I read about and it clogging atomizers or being hard to remove taste too. So, any that are worse in that way I might want to avoid.

Thanks all..

 

[Nick O'Teen]

Looks like a good selection - you should have fun with them (you do know they're flavour concentrates for mixing with, and not premixed ready2vape juice, right?)

The Praline is gorgeous - like Ferrero Rocher (if you get those in the US.)
The Banana is 100% natural fruit extract
The Roasted Nuts are mixed nuts - hazelnut, almond, walnut notes predominate.
The Orange Liqueur is a nice dry orange with bitter peel notes, similar to Grand Marnier (if you know the drink.)
Doppio Espresso is one of the caffeinated flavours, that can crystalize a bit in cold weather, but it's all volatile, so not atty-unfriendly.

Some more reviews you might find useful:

Doppio Espresso
Black Forest Gateau
Raspberry

 

[aprioristic]

Going with this now:

Decadent Vapours 10ml Flavour Concentrates: Apricot
Decadent Vapours 10ml Flavour Concentrates: Nanna Mint
Decadent Vapours 10ml Flavour Concentrates: Tiramisu
Decadent Vapours 10ml Flavour Concentrates: Orange Liqueur
Decadent Vapours 10ml Flavour Concentrates: Sour Cherry
Decadent Vapours 10ml Flavour Concentrates: Banana
Decadent Vapours 10ml Flavour Concentrates: Custard
Decadent Vapours 10ml Flavour Concentrates: Parma violet
Decadent Vapours 10ml Flavour Concentrates: Roasted Nut
Decadent Vapours 10ml Flavour Concentrates: Blackcurrant

Do you know if there is a specific type of Nanna mint you use, like subspecies or something? I first got into drinking it labeled Mediterranean Mint (nana) like a year ago. Maybe there is only one type.. but I think I am going to try to grow some next year. I've been to gardens that have all sorts of crazy mint varieties is why I ask.

Thanks for the tips though. I'm trying to go with more stuff that is impossible to find anywhere else, but I am excited to try it.

Yes, I know it is just flavoring and Doppio crystals because it is the max caffeine a liquid can hold or something. Some other reviews just said the e-liquids were surprisingly thick, maybe just VG, got me. I'm kind of jumping from nasty prefilled cartos to DIY because I don't trust the few juices I got one bit. Some of them definitely have sugars or who knows what because they get gunky fast.

 

[Nick O'Teen]

Do you know if there is a specific type of Nanna mint you use, like subspecies or something? I first got into drinking it labeled Mediterranean Mint (nana) like a year ago. Maybe there is only one type.. but I think I am going to try to grow some next year. I've been to gardens that have all sorts of crazy mint varieties is why I ask.

Technically speaking, its botanical classification is Mentha spicata cv.'nana' , since it is not considered morphologically or genetically different enough for full sub-specific status - it's a cultivar (cultivated variety) of Mentha spicata: according to Wikipedia: "The cultivar Mentha spicata 'Nana', the Nana mint of Morocco, possesses a clear, pungent, but mild aroma and is an essential ingredient of Touareg Tea."

"Nana" means "small" in Latin, and is often uses as a specific or varietal descriptor of dwarf species/varieties, which is why (if you ever see the fresh herb,) you'll think it looks strangely stunted, compared to regular spearmint (it only grows to 3-6 inches typically.)
As with many small herb varieties grown in hot, dry climates, it has a rather more intense flavour than the more luxuriant growth of cooler, northern climes. I don't know how well it will maintain its character in different climates, but if you want to grow your own, treat it mean to keep it lean - sandy, open soil, plenty of heat and full sun should suit it best. As with most cultivars, I don't believe it comes true from seed, but all mints are very easy to grow from cuttings (it roots at the drop of a hat, and is very invasive, so I'd advise planting it in pots rather than beds.)

 

[aprioristic]

Thanks. I really meant cultivar but was having a little taxonomy fail I s'pose. I didn't have much of a garden last year because I was moving but am really trying to step it up next time. I do know that mints are invasive, especially because they ran over a spot of flowers I planted before. I'm going to get a half dozen or so varieties (definitely want pineapple) and probably just pot them.

So, I am just barely getting into mixing e-juice, but I was curious how you make your flavors Nick. I understand you must have trade secrets, but I really didn't even find much about the basics on here or around the web. TPA seems to just work with a bigger flavoring manufacturer and resell, but apparently you are distilling volatiles from raw product then tweaking it? I'd really appreciate it if you have some info you could share. I really don't see myself making flavors as a commercial venture. We've gotten into trying oddball edible plants like milkweed flower fritters. Then I got to thinking how we know a stand of pawpaw trees and are going to be more vigilant this year in looking for their fruit within their very narrow window of ripeness. So, I was like... that would be great if I knew how to make ejuice flavoring to have pawpaw year-round (or many other things). I think I'm looking at it with rose-colored glasses a bit though...

BTW, I ended up with lemon meringue instead of tiramisu since TW was out. That was one of the ones with the best reviews =/ They didn't arrive yet so I will report back later.

 

[Nick O'Teen]

So, I am just barely getting into mixing e-juice, but I was curious how you make your flavors Nick. I understand you must have trade secrets, but I really didn't even find much about the basics on here or around the web. TPA seems to just work with a bigger flavoring manufacturer and resell, but apparently you are distilling volatiles from raw product then tweaking it? I'd really appreciate it if you have some info you could share. I really don't see myself making flavors as a commercial venture. We've gotten into trying oddball edible plants like milkweed flower fritters. Then I got to thinking how we know a stand of pawpaw trees and are going to be more vigilant this year in looking for their fruit within their very narrow window of ripeness. So, I was like... that would be great if I knew how to make ejuice flavoring to have pawpaw year-round (or many other things). I think I'm looking at it with rose-colored glasses a bit though...

We don't do a lot of raw fruit extractions, because we're not really geared up for processing (literally) tons of fresh fruit, but we do process a lot of our own leaf oil, spices and lower-volume sources. Most of our work is tidying up existing extracts and essences though, to maximize the volatiles and exclude damaging sugars and cold-pressed oils.
Making your own flavours is great fun, and very rewarding - we use a variety of methods depending on the source: various distillations (fractional, steam, vacuum,) solvent extractions, HPLC, etc., though they're not all suitable for home use.
First step would be to get a still - something like this is okay for a bit of experimenting at home (and ideal, with the addition of a steam distillation head, for steam-distilling herbs,) but something bigger is preferable if you're working with weaker flavours (here's a list of various models on the market. For flavour extraction (unlike other uses,) you want as short a column as you can get - an unpacked pot still, rather than a reflux model.
As an alternative steam distillation platform, coffee machines have also been used successfully by some people (though you may never get the taste of herbs out of your upmarket Espresso maker again! )

Pawpaw are pretty weak as a flavour source (even waterier than dragonfruit,) so I expect you'd need at least 0.5-1 kilo per bottle - I would simply press the juice out and distil it (though I'd do it under a vacuum or argon to prevent any oxidation - it should still be successful without this though.) Take it off in fractions of a few ml at a time as the still temperature rises, and test each one separately for its flavour characteristics - then blend the fractions as seems most pleasing (that's the tricky - and the fun - bit.)
Bear in mind that none of the non-volatile flavour components will make it through into the finished extract, so you may have to accept a rather different flavour, or tweak it some to get it how you want it by blending in other ingredients to restore the balance (and that's an art you can only learn by experience )

If you like playing with glassware and doing mad science in your kitchen, I'd definitely recommend it

BTW, I ended up with lemon meringue instead of tiramisu since TW was out. That was one of the ones with the best reviews =/ They didn't arrive yet so I will report back later.

Good choice - it's yummy

 

[aprioristic]

Thanks, I just wanted a rough idea of what you do or what I could do. I don't think at this point I can justify even a few hundred dollars for this, but maybe in the future. I'm going to learn more how it works and keep my eye out for good deals.

When you said "0.5-1 kilo per bottle" what size bottle did you mean? My brother is a chem doctoral student and I could get access to working in vacuum and I think even using these type of glass devices, but I don't know if I will even bother. I'm more interested in the "art" of making flavors at this point.

I've been looking around for P&F articles on the web and I think I am going to get access through the San Fran. Library if my friend in CA gets a free card for me. I've been going through GRAS 24 and just looking up stuff. This goodscentcompany website has a lot of info too.

So, I've tried a few of the flavors so far. I'm anxious to try more, but have had huge problems with my vaping device. 4/5 DOA atomizers I think, so I can't risk trying things that might be hard to get the flavor out (and sometimes those are surprising).

The nana mint is pretty much exactly as expected. I'm not real into menthol, peppermint, or even the typical spearmint flavor so I'm happy with this one. I made a small batch of apricot/custard @ about 13/7% with a little ethyl maltol and it is pretty tasty but could use some tweaking.

The orange liqueur I tried first at about 12% and it was too weak. It was the one flavor that smelled odd in the bottle. It tasted the same then, sort of just musty/hay, but I'm no good with descriptors. I doubled the flavor last night and tried again today and the real flavor comes through. I get the bit of alcohol and a nice orange, then the musty flavor kind of developed into what reminded me of a buttery tart crust. It isn't what I expected, somewhat similar to my apricot custard mix in some ways, but still good.

The sour cherry was good too around 20% with EM. I don't know how close to the sour cherries I got last summer from my tree it is, a bit more like a can of cherry pie filling, but still way better than the artificial candy type flavors I've tried.

 

[GiMante]

I didn't read all of the post's but I had to make a quick suggestion. The Cocoyam is phenominal! It is quickly becoming my favorite!

 

[Nick O'Teen]

Thanks, I just wanted a rough idea of what you do or what I could do. I don't think at this point I can justify even a few hundred dollars for this, but maybe in the future. I'm going to learn more how it works and keep my eye out for good deals.

When you said "0.5-1 kilo per bottle" what size bottle did you mean?

Sorry - 30ml bottle (I tend to think of that as a standard "bottle", though even we work with other sizes.)
The bottom line is that you need to concentrate the flavour to about 25-30x the palatable level - whereas with squash or cordial you will typically find flavour concentrations of 4-8x (how much water you're directed to dilute them with,) with only 20 microlites or so per puff, ejuice has to be a LOT stronger to register satisfactorily on the palate (that's why it tastes so disgusting when you get a drop of juice in your mouth! )

My brother is a chem doctoral student and I could get access to working in vacuum and I think even using these type of glass devices, but I don't know if I will even bother. I'm more interested in the "art" of making flavors at this point.

Making them (even on a small scale,) is a science, not an art. But knowing how to tweak them from how they turn out to how you want them to be - that's the art

I've been looking around for P&F articles on the web and I think I am going to get access through the San Fran. Library if my friend in CA gets a free card for me. I've been going through GRAS 24 and just looking up stuff. This goodscentcompany website has a lot of info too.

So, I've tried a few of the flavors so far. I'm anxious to try more, but have had huge problems with my vaping device. 4/5 DOA atomizers I think, so I can't risk trying things that might be hard to get the flavor out (and sometimes those are surprising).

The nana mint is pretty much exactly as expected. I'm not real into menthol, peppermint, or even the typical spearmint flavor so I'm happy with this one. I made a small batch of apricot/custard @ about 13/7% with a little ethyl maltol and it is pretty tasty but could use some tweaking.

The orange liqueur I tried first at about 12% and it was too weak. It was the one flavor that smelled odd in the bottle. It tasted the same then, sort of just musty/hay, but I'm no good with descriptors. I doubled the flavor last night and tried again today and the real flavor comes through. I get the bit of alcohol and a nice orange, then the musty flavor kind of developed into what reminded me of a buttery tart crust. It isn't what I expected, somewhat similar to my apricot custard mix in some ways, but still good.

The sour cherry was good too around 20% with EM. I don't know how close to the sour cherries I got last summer from my tree it is, a bit more like a can of cherry pie filling, but still way better than the artificial candy type flavors I've tried.

Ours come from the cultivar 'Griotte' - an old French strain, closely related to cv.'Morello' (some will say synonymous with it, though I claim otherwise,) - but there are a lot of different sour cherries out there (and they can be surprisingly different sometimes )

 

[rolygate]

I find that Nick's flavours are really good for DIY, for several reasons:

- You get 10ml bottles instead of the bakery-type supplier's 3.7ml
- Even so, they don't seem to be any weaker
- You don't get the nasty colourings that the baking flavours have to include in order to darken the sponge - coffee and caramel are bad for this. Bad for your atty, bad for your lungs.
- The vast majority of DV flavours don't have that nasty, nasty perfume aroma on top that many flavour suppliers have. Not sure what it is, rhodinol maybe - but I personally find that overpowering rose-type scent to be vomit-inducing and I fail to see why it's necessary. Some of Nick's tobacco might have it, the Havana I think, and some of the 'girly' flavours like Black Forest Gateau and Marshmallow are a bit perfumey - but on the whole his stuff is mainly perfume-free. Some people's is utterly disgusting for this reason (to me at any rate, although I don't think I'm the only one by any means) - some of FlavorArt's tobaccos for example I flushed as soon as I recovered from the nasty experience. Took forever to get it out of the atty.

I use LR atties or 5 volts and have never had to clean one in normal use, so there don't seem to be any clogging issues with DV stuff.

Try DV Coconut, it's magic. Makes a lovely coconut mint or coconut toffee as well.