Adding 50mg/ml nicotine to juices already containing nic

[djej]

I've looked at the online calculators, but they all seem to be based on making juice from scratch. They assume you have pure PG with no nicotine, but of course I'm already starting with juice that has nicotice in it. I'm interested in knowing something like this:

Lets I have a bottle of 18mg nic juice. I have a 2ml capacity device (carto, tank, etc.) and I want to to fill it, with the results inside the 2ml container to be 24mg nicotine strenth (I know the flavor will be cut, but I guess that depends on the nic addition strength, i.e. the stronger the straight up nicotine juice, the less I have to add).

I used to be good at math, but my brain hurst trying to figure this out. Any help would be greatly appreciated !!!!!!

Using half and half, I know I would just average the two numbers (18+50 / 2), which would end up being 34mg/ml, and if I use 100mg/ml of nic juice to cut it, I guess I would use a quarter of the liquid.

Ah crap, I'm already confused.

 

[Jim Bob]

If you need to ask it's probably not a good idea IMO.
Using nicotine solutions > 36mg/ml can get dangerous real quick, I'm not trying to be a wise ____ here just want everyone to stay safe and enjoy vaping. One bad calculation/error "could" be really bad .

 

[zoiDman]

When you go to Calculate the mg/ml of Nicotine it’s going to be the Total Amount of Nicotine Divided by the Total Amount of Milliliters.

Let’s forget about making Exactly 2ml for the time being.

Just think about making some amount of 24mg/ml e-Liquid out of Both 50mg/ml and 18mg/ml e-Liquids.

So the Formula is…

Some 50mg Plus some 18mg Divided by the Total Amount of 50mg Plus the 18mg Equals 24mg.

Yuk… A word Problem. Everyone Hates Word Problems. Let’s convert it into a Math Problem.

Let: X = The Amount of 50mg e-Liquid and Y = The Amount of 18mg e-Liquid

So…

( (50X + 18Y)/(X + Y) ) = 24

Most people don’t Like to work in Two Variables X & Y. So why don’t we make One of the Variables something that is Easy to work with? How about Y = 1

Replacing Y with 1…

=> ( (50X + 18)/(X + 1) ) = 24

Throw a Little Algebra on it…

=> 50X + 18 = 24(X + 1)
=> 50X + 18 = 24X + 24

Collect up some Like Terms…

=> 50X -24X = 24 – 18
=> 26X = 6
=> X = 6/26
=> X = 3/13
=> X = .23

So when there is .23 ml of 50mg e-Liquid Added to 1 ml of 18mg e-Liquid the Result is 1.23 ml of 24 mg e-Liquid.

Cool. But you want to make Exactly 2ml. So we need to add More of both the 50mg and the 18mg to get to 2ml. But How Much More?

If I Divide 2 by 1.23 I get 2/1.23 = 1.626

So it sounds like I Need 1.626 Times more 50mg and 1.626 Times more 18mg to get me to 2ml

=> 1.626(.23) = .374ml of 50mg

And

=> 1.626(1) = 1.626ml of 18mg

Hence it sounds like if I Added .374ml of 50mg to 1.626ml of 18mg I would end up with 2ml of 25mg.

----

I know you might be getting lost but Stay with me, this is the Important Part

Knowing how to make 2ml of 24mg is Great. But would it be Better to know how to make ANY amount of 24mg?

Once we found a Ratio of 50mg to 18mg why don’t we just Express it as a Percentage which could be used to Make any amount of ml?

Since we know that the Ratio is .23ml of 50mg to 1ml of 18mg for a Total of 1.23ml, let’s find the Ratio for 1ml

1ml / 1.23ml = .81

So if I made both the 50mg amount in the Ratio and the 18mg amount in the Ratio Smaller by .81 times, I would have a Ratio for 1ml

.81(.23ml) = .19ml of 50mg

And

.81(1ml) = .81ml of 18mg

So in 1ml of 24mg e-Liquid there is .19ml of 50mg and .81ml of 18mg e-Liquid.

Thus the Percentage for ANY amount of 24mg e-Liquid is: 19% of 50mg and 81% of 18mg

Always Double Check your Work!

.19(50) + .81(18) = 24.0 Good!

---

You might want to print this out because you can use this Approach for Any mg e-Liquids.

You might also want to do the Math Yourself because I have been known to make some Pretty Bad Math errors First thing in the Mourning.

 

[Spazmelda]

I've got an excel spreadsheet that I made that does this. Do you want a copy of it?

 

[bjannr]

Wow zoiDman. I had fun, can we do it again???. I got a bit rusty on my algebra skills. Guess I should brush up before I DIY. I was at least able to follow your steps. Thanks alot.

 

[Spazmelda]

Here's my spreadsheet, if it works.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...EpVRzZpNE55V1NHc25HaXlUdVlpeXc&hl=en_US#gid=0

But, if you monkey with the formula fields you will bork it. Only enter data in the boxes with borders.

 

[zoiDman]

Wow zoiDman. I had fun, can we do it again???. ...

Again? Maybe tomorrow.

I kinda do this Math stuff for a Living and like to limit it to Once a Day when it is between Semesters.

... I got a bit rusty on my algebra skills. Guess I should brush up before I DIY. I was at least able to follow your steps. Thanks alot.

It's like most things. If you don't do it occasionally, you forget it.

I sort of Cringe when someone asks how to do a Mixture Problem and No One takes a Moment to show the Underling Math.

Don't get me wrong. Computers and Calculators were built to Help do all this Tedious Math and have been a God Sense in Everyday Life. But to Trust Blindly in someone else's Program can lead to Systemic Mistakes. I like the Concept of being able to work out a Mixture Problem on a Piece of Paper and then Checking the Programs Result to the Math.

It also builds Analytic and Reasoning Skills when a Situation comes alone that you don't have Program for. Kinda that "Give a Fish" verses "Teach to Fish" thing.

Like I said, Nothing wrong with Using Spreadsheets or a Program someone else wrote. I just think a person should be able to Verify the Results that are Spit out by a Computer via a Pencil and a Piece of Paper.

 

[Spazmelda]

Don't get me wrong. Computers and Calculators were built to Help do all this Tedious Math and have been a God Sense in Everyday Life. But to Trust Blindly in someone else's Program can lead to Systemic Mistakes. I like the Concept of being able to work out a Mixture Problem on a Piece of Paper and then Checking the Programs Result to the Math.

It also builds Analytic and Reasoning Skills when a Situation comes alone that you don't have Program for. Kinda that "Give a Fish" verses "Teach to Fish" thing.

Like I said, Nothing wrong with Using Spreadsheets or a Program someone else wrote. I just think a person should be able to Verify the Results that are Spit out by a Computer via a Pencil and a Piece of Paper.

Heh, I actually made the excel sheet just as a quick double check for when I work it out on paper. I always work out my juice recipes on paper, using the dreaded math.

 

[bjannr]

Math should not be dreaded. I love Math. I used to tutor Algebra, Calculus, and Chemistry. I just haven't had time. I am required to do simple math at work, but I used to love those word problems. Really helps in safety with DIY, especially if you use a high mg nicotine base.

 

[Spazmelda]

I don't think it should be dreaded either, but many people seem to.

I worked as a molecular biologist (before I stopped after my 2nd kid) and dilution problems like this were an everyday thing. It's one of the things that appeals to me about DIY.

A lot of people see an equation and immediately assume it's too hard.

 

[zoiDman]

Heh, I actually made the excel sheet just as a quick double check for when I work it out on paper. I always work out my juice recipes on paper, using the dreaded math.

That's Exactly what I'm talking about.

Understand the Math. Be able to do it on a Piece of Paper. Then use a Computer to take the Drudgery out of having to do Repetitive Calculations Every time want to do something.

Math should not be dreaded. I love Math. ...

It Shouldn't be but Trust me it is by Many People.

I don't think it should be dreaded either, but many people seem to.

I worked as a molecular biologist (before I stopped after my 2nd kid) and dilution problems like this were an everyday thing. It's one of the things that appeals to me about DIY.

A lot of people see an equation and immediately assume it's too hard.

I think were the Biggest Break Down occurs is when People start using Variables. Especially more than One Variable.

In the Mixing Problem the OP posted, there comes a point in my Solution where you have...

((50X + 18Y)/(X + Y)) = 24

Many People look at this and Scratch their Head. How can we find X when we Don't know Y? It goes against Human Nature. Even if I find One of them, say X, I still won't know what Y is, Right?

The Key here was to understand that X & Y are Bound to each other. As you change X, Y changes by a Proportional amount. So when I let Y = 1, all that was done was to Eliminate the Variable Y and tie X to some Value when Y = 1. Most People do pretty good when there is Just an X floating around. (BTW - You can let Y Equal Anything you like. I just choose 1 because it made the Math somewhat Easier to work with. But I could have Choosen Y = (77)^1/2 and the Results would have been the Same.)


I think a lot of the Problem comes from the way we teach Math at Early Levels.

Here is an Example that Everyone has seen in an Elementary Math Book.

3 + 4 Equals What?

OK

But a Better way to Express this Equation would be...

3 + 4 = X Solve for X

Seems if we Introduced Variables at this Early stage, Students wouldn't Freak out so much when they see Variable later on.

 

[Spazmelda]

You know, I am very impressed with my daughter's school in this respect. They are already teaching them algebraic concepts in 3rd grade (and were introducing it in 2nd).

She gets problems like 3 + [] = 7, so not an x, but at least a box which can easily be substituted for x later on. Also they spend a lot of time on word problems, which is fantastic for incorporating math into every day life. They were even graphing in kindergarten. Love it!

Oh, I also remembered that they are teaching equations in the sense that she'll get a problem like:

3 + 4 = 2 + []

This allows them to understand that it doesn't really matter if it's one number or more on each side of the equation. As long as they are *equal*.

 

[djej]

I really appreciate all the replies. It's probably more dangerous than it's worth, but 50mg/ml liquid didn't seem TOO bad, as they sell 36mg flavored liquids already. I'll be VERY careful if I decide to get into this.

 

[djej]

When you go to Calculate the mg/ml of Nicotine it’s going to be the Total Amount of Nicotine Divided by the Total Amount of Milliliters.

Let’s forget about making Exactly 2ml for the time being.

Just think about making some amount of 24mg/ml e-Liquid out of Both 50mg/ml and 18mg/ml e-Liquids.

So the Formula is…

Some 50mg Plus some 18mg Divided by the Total Amount of 50mg Plus the 18mg Equals 24mg.

Yuk… A word Problem. Everyone Hates Word Problems. Let’s convert it into a Math Problem.

Let: X = The Amount of 50mg e-Liquid and Y = The Amount of 18mg e-Liquid

So…

( (50X + 18Y)/(X + Y) ) = 24

Most people don’t Like to work in Two Variables X & Y. So why don’t we make One of the Variables something that is Easy to work with? How about Y = 1

Replacing Y with 1…

=> ( (50X + 18)/(X + 1) ) = 24

Throw a Little Algebra on it…

=> 50X + 18 = 24(X + 1)
=> 50X + 18 = 24X + 24

Collect up some Like Terms…

=> 50X -24X = 24 – 18
=> 26X = 6
=> X = 6/26
=> X = 3/13
=> X = .23

So when there is .23 ml of 50mg e-Liquid Added to 1 ml of 18mg e-Liquid the Result is 1.23 ml of 24 mg e-Liquid.

Cool. But you want to make Exactly 2ml. So we need to add More of both the 50mg and the 18mg to get to 2ml. But How Much More?

If I Divide 2 by 1.23 I get 2/1.23 = 1.626

So it sounds like I Need 1.626 Times more 50mg and 1.626 Times more 18mg to get me to 2ml

=> 1.626(.23) = .374ml of 50mg

And

=> 1.626(1) = 1.626ml of 18mg

Hence it sounds like if I Added .374ml of 50mg to 1.626ml of 18mg I would end up with 2ml of 25mg.

----

I know you might be getting lost but Stay with me, this is the Important Part

Knowing how to make 2ml of 24mg is Great. But would it be Better to know how to make ANY amount of 24mg?

Once we found a Ratio of 50mg to 18mg why don’t we just Express it as a Percentage which could be used to Make any amount of ml?

Since we know that the Ratio is .23ml of 50mg to 1ml of 18mg for a Total of 1.23ml, let’s find the Ratio for 1ml

1ml / 1.23ml = .81

So if I made both the 50mg amount in the Ratio and the 18mg amount in the Ratio Smaller by .81 times, I would have a Ratio for 1ml

.81(.23ml) = .19ml of 50mg

And

.81(1ml) = .81ml of 18mg

So in 1ml of 24mg e-Liquid there is .19ml of 50mg and .81ml of 18mg e-Liquid.

Thus the Percentage for ANY amount of 24mg e-Liquid is: 19% of 50mg and 81% of 18mg

Always Double Check your Work!

.19(50) + .81(18) = 24.0 Good!

---

You might want to print this out because you can use this Approach for Any mg e-Liquids.

You might also want to do the Math Yourself because I have been known to make some Pretty Bad Math errors First thing in the Mourning.

Wow zioDman, you truly outdid yourself!!!!! Thank you so much.

 

[zoiDman]

You know, I am very impressed with my daughter's school in this respect. They are already teaching them algebraic concepts in 3rd grade (and were introducing it in 2nd).

She gets problems like 3 + [] = 7, so not an x, but at least a box which can easily be substituted for x later on. Also they spend a lot of time on word problems, which is fantastic for incorporating math into every day life. They were even graphing in kindergarten. Love it!

Oh, I also remembered that they are teaching equations in the sense that she'll get a problem like:

3 + 4 = 2 + []

This allows them to understand that it doesn't really matter if it's one number or more on each side of the equation. As long as they are *equal*.

The Concept of “Equality” is the CORE CONCEPT of All Mathematics.

I really appreciate all the replies. It's probably more dangerous than it's worth, but 50mg/ml liquid didn't seem TOO bad, as they sell 36mg flavored liquids already. I'll be VERY careful if I decide to get into this.

I would NEVER suggest to Anyone Vaping 50mg e-Liquids. It’s just Too High. It also is Too Strong to work with. Nicotine absorbs thru your Skin Very Efficiently.

I tell people New to DIY. Keep it Simple.

If you have 50mg Nicotine base, No Problem. Why not just cut it in Half and make 25mg e-Liquid? You Really can’t tell the Difference between 25mg or 24mg. But the Mixing is so much Easier. 1 Part 50mg and 1 Part PG/VG = 25mg e-Liquid.

I buy 48mg Nicotine Base and the First thing I do is Mix it down to 20mg. I do this because 20mg is Safer to work with than 48mg.

I like to vape at about 18mg or so.

By the time you add Flavoring and Sweeteners to 20mg to make a DIY, the result is right about 18mg. And the Cool thing is I don’t have to Measure a bunch of stuff Every Time.

To make a 10ml batch, I just Grab my Diluted Bottle of 20mg Unflavored Nicotine Base and put 9ml in a Mixing Bottle. Then I add my Flavoring an Sweeteners, about 1 ml total, and La Viola, I have roughly 18mg of Flavored e-Liquid.

 

[zoiDman]

Wow zioDman, you truly outdid yourself!!!!! Thank you so much.

Like I said, I do this type of thing a lot.

But I will say one thing. It is Easier to do on a Whiteboard than it is to Type it.

 

[niczgreat]

Sounds like you want something simple for you and your needs.

Just base everything on how much of the 18mg Base you will use.
and take a percentage of that and add it to your mix.



Leave room in the bottle for the extra.

Scenario 1 cut the juice no flavoring
Add 23% 50mg Juice

Example
10ml 18mg Liquid
2.3ML 50mg Liquid

Scenario 2 DIY adding Flavoring at 10%
Add 34% 50mg Juice
Add 13% Flavorings

Example
10ml 18mg Liquid
3.4ml 50mg Liquid
1.3ml Flavorings

Scenario 3
Add 50% 50Mg Juice
Add 20% Flavoring

Example
10 ML 18mg Liquid
5 ML 50mg Juice
3 ML Flavorings

Good Luck
Calculations the old fashioned way are below.



1st scenario just cutting premade Juice
It's easy.
100 juice 18mg = 1800
23ml Juice 50mg = 1150
_____________________
123ml total at 2950 or 2950/123= 23.98 close enough to 24%

2nd Scenario that you are DIY 10%



100ml juice 18mg = 1800
34 ml Juice 50mg = 1700
13ml Flavoring 0 = 0
146 ml 3500 23.97 close enough to 24mg

whatever you are adding in 18mg liquid just add
34% of that in 50mg Liquid
13% of that in flavorings


And at 20% Flavorings
__________________________________________________________________

100ml juice 18mg = 1800
50 ml Juice 50mg = 2500
30 ml Flavoring 0 = 0
180 ml 3500 23.88 close enough to 24mg

So with 20% flavoring
Whatever you add in 18mg Juice
Add 50% 50mg Juice
Add 30% in flavoring.
______________________________________________________________________

 

[niczgreat]

Zoidiman because of all the scary posts like yours, I rubbed 2 drops of 100mg liquid on my skin the other day, didn't even raise my Heartbeat.

I agree that a newbie, or someone not used to Nicotine, should be very careful with the higher levels. But a blanket statement about 50mg being dangerous to work with just doesn't apply to everyone.

I've been vaping 40mg for years. Look at the date I joined the forum. I'm still here!! I agree that level could be dangerous to some but I have to laugh when you tell me that It's so dangerous that I noone should be handling it.

 

[zoiDman]

Zoidiman because of all the scary posts like yours, I rubbed 2 drops of 100mg liquid on my skin the other day, didn't even raise my Heartbeat.

I agree that a newbie, or someone not used to Nicotine, should be very careful with the higher levels. But a blanket statement about 50mg being dangerous to work with just doesn't apply to everyone.

I've been vaping 40mg for years. Look at the date I joined the forum. I'm still here!! I agree that level could be dangerous to some but I have to laugh when you tell me that It's so dangerous that I noone should be handling it.

You have to put in Perspective where we are.

Were on a Public Forum which has Members from All walks of life, Different levels of Expertise and Different levels of Nicotine Tolerance .

You may be able to Vape 40mg e-Liquids. I know I can't. And you might not see any Perceivable Effects of Dropping 100mg Nicotine Base on your skin. Perhaps you have built up a Higher Tolerance for Nicotine by vaping 40mg that most vapers?

There is No Need to Constantly Handle Nicotine Bases of 50mg or Higher when a vaper is going to vape a DIY mixture of a Much Lower Nicotine Level. I see no down side to Lowering the Nicotine Level of the Nicotine base to a mg Level that is closer to what the Eventual vaped level will be.

You also have to consider that Many people who read threads like this have Children or might have Children visit their home. A 30ml Bottle of 50mg or 100mg is not something I would ever want to hear of a Child getting a hold of.

You may not agree with my Assessment that 50mg of Nicotine or Higher is Dangerous to Handle. I would rather error on the side of Caution when setting a Safe Nicotine Level.

Because there is No Downside when doing DIY to Wearing Gloves, Eye Protect and Keeping e-Liquids away from Children and Pets.

At least None that I see.

BTW - Depending on Drop Size, Two drops of 100mg Nicotine Base has 10mg of Nicotine in it. And absorption thru the Skin is a Very Efficient Delivery Method. Without the means of any other Chemicals such as in a "Patch", the delivery is Very Rapid. Very Rapid.

So when a Person puts 10mg of Nicotine on their skin, they are Essentially Absorbing a Half Pack of Cigarettes.

I wonder how many people consider this to be a Safe Practice?

 

[niczgreat]

Kudos to you Zoidman,
I appreciate your polite answer to my post.

In your latest post, I agree with everything although most doesn't apply to me because I have a proven high tolerance to NIC.

I appreciate your reserve, You were nice not to call me a Numbskull or Idiot, My tolerance level to nicotine is sky high, but I agree the average joe should be very careful. What has no effect on me could do some serious damage to another.

By the way I thought my solution to his mixing was a great rubber band solution. I wish that was what had received the comments on. Sigh...