All Mechanical- a flaw in thinking.

[o4_srt]

Agreed. I meant behind closed doors for the BIG issues. Didn't mean any offense.

By best friend -- I meant the concept best friend -- trustworthy above all etc.

none taken

i missed your original point, and agree. A child should be able to come to his/her parents with any issue. However, they should also know that there will be repercussions depending on the situation.

If the only thing I manage to do as a parent is instill a sense of personal responsibility, and the knowledge that you get out of life what you put into it, and my child(ren) grow up to be good contributing members of society, I will die a happy man.

 

[progg]

I think you're going to be a fine Father.

 

[o4_srt]

I think you're going to be a fine Father.

lol wasn't fishing for compliments, but thanks!

i get so sick with the mentality of some of these parents. Especially most of the kids on MTV's "16 and pregnant"

i read an article recently stating that teenagers are having kids just to try to make it on this show. It utterly disgusts me.

 

[Goldenkobold]

double post

 

[Goldenkobold]

a properly designed, properly build electronic mod will outlast a purely mechanical piece of equipment time and time again. But therein lies the problem. MOST consumer electronics are not properly designed and built, especially from china. They are build well enough to work, but not well enough to last.

Sometimes, problems that are deemed electrical in nature are often mechanical at root cause. For instance, poor wiring leads to a wire bundle rubbing against a chassis during operation, causing a short. The mechanical design flaw caused an electrical problem.

Just last week I finished repairing a returned unit that was originally built in the early 70's. It did not have a single failure until a few months ago.

Since building my latest mod that integrates a capacitive touch switch, I have not had a single problem with my mod. Previously, I was replacing mechanical switches every few months.

That being said, it is far easier to design and build a reliable mechanical piece of equipment than it is to build a reliable, durable electrical equivalent. As a general rule though, the less moving parts a piece of equipment has, the better.

I agree I think a lot of the electrical=bad comes from chinese quality control...which can turn out a perfect unit in one batch and a barely held together one the next time through.

I have avoided, up till now, naming any particular mod...but since other people brought them up, I think the GLV2 is a very sturdy example of a well put together electro-mechanical mod. The manufacturer has faith enough to include a lifetime warranty on the device. Compare this to the gg, which others have brought up, which vapor kings will not warranty at all...unless you pay the 40 bucks extra for the maintenance plan. HOWEVER with the gg you can just buy the parts and fix it yourself...the benefit of a mostly mechanical device (isn't there a fuse in the ggts?). A lot of people have brought up other options to make so and so mod better...the magnet button on the gg for instance, but at that point you are modding, or self upgrading, your mod. I actually think that is a strength of mechanical mods however...that you can upgrade them without getting a new unit...get the icon upgrade kit to take it to v1.1 without having to throw out your old icon...get the gg magnet buttons to add that to your mod without having to toss your old gg...by the way I think the magnet idea is brilliant as a replacement for springs...

BUT
all of that is something a person who wants to play around with his/her unit will do...and maybe even enjoy doing, but it might not be for everyone...some people will always want zero hassle, and zero hassle will always include, for some people, an idea that you don't have to disassemble your unit once a week.

again just as a disclaimer, I am not advocating for or against any particular mod I was just using examples previously brought up.

 

[Rocketman]

The low quality Chinese e-cig batteries, like the $9 or $10 dollars ones are getting a bad rap. So many of us have been swept up in the sweet spot that it stinks If you use a 180 mah 510 battery like it was designed to be used, not abused, and get a month or two out of it, then it has done it's job. If you want to shop around and get a $6 510 battery, then expect the worst. I believe that MOST failures are the users fault. Read the descriptions of what went wrong and see if there isn't just a little bit of "I don't know what happeneditis", or this one bad atty must have killed all 9 of my batteries, or, or .

If you hear someone say "I want a High voltage mod" or a "LR atty" and they haven't mastered the $10 batts yet, tell em to practice a little bit more before trying to keep up with the big boys.

 

[BuzzKill]

One of the issues is that these are electronic devices for the Chinese stuff ( some really so so designs , also designed for a short life ) so most people assume that ALL electronics are crap . that is NOT the case .

having an all mech mod is great IF you do not want control ( or you like chasing atty resistance )
they work fine for many people .

As these devices progress they will get better and better ( the electronic ones ) KISS it is my view ( keep it simple stupid ) less failure points and a more reliable device .

I dont know about you but after my first time being able to control the voltage / power I was HOOKED big time , that is why I got into this industry , it needed improvement .

A VV device is not for everybody , same as a all mech. device to each his own , but being scared to try a electrical device because it might break is akin to using a dial phone because your cell phone might break ! ( granted much larger co's are making them and they have a lot more $$$$ to test and R&D the product ) it is a matter of a small amount of time before the electronic devices are as reliable as the mech. ones ( taking into account service like Naolox and cleaning )

my 2 cents

 

[irefine]

What an interesting thread, it went from a debate of mechanical vs electronic, to cell phones making things explode, to you'll be a great father, and then back to the original debate. All of this has been very insightfull and i thought that all of the arguments had merit except one. There was a statement that a properly built electronic device can be as durable as a mechanical. I will agree that a good electronic device will be plenty reliable for what we use them for, but I will bet my bottom dollar that if we took any electronic device out there right now and dropped it along with a P-18 from a 20 story building that the P-18 would still be in one piece and will fire and the electronc one won't. Ofcourse if you want to try this experiment we will need to use your P-18 not mine

 

[AttyPops]

Ok, well 2 cents.... I use both "mechanical" and "electronic" PVs. The 3.7 volt boxes are homemade and usually strait mechanical. Work great. I vary results with different ohm-ratings on atties. However I like 5 volts too. That takes a regulator. A component. It's the only way.

Don't get me going about variable voltage, battery efficiency, switching regulators, digital pots vs standard potentiometers, etc. to make a vv mod.

So, it depends on the use. Also, off-the-shelf e-cigs have things like cut-offs if the button is held down too long (pocket or purse). That takes electronics too.

Also, I use protected batteries.... they have a PCB (electronics) built in.......

P.S.

Good point irefine.... PVs->Cell Phone blow ups->da-da->PV .... interesting thread. FYI - We can tell from this thread that cell phones lead to pregnancy....(over 90% of women who find out/confirm they are pregnant have used a cell phone in the last month) ...jk.... And dropping PVs off buildings proves that mechanical PVs hold up better.... lol. I hope you forgive me this digression..... I'm on your side. I think mechanical holds up better too.

But..... I think it is a case of "right tool for the job". It depends on the PV and the features you want.

 

[BuzzKill]

What an interesting thread, it went from a debate of mechanical vs electronic, to cell phones making things explode, to you'll be a great father, and then back to the original debate. All of this has been very insightfull and i thought that all of the arguments had merit except one. There was a statement that a properly built electronic device can be as durable as a mechanical. I will agree that a good electronic device will be plenty reliable for what we use them for, but I will bet my bottom dollar that if we took any electronic device out there right now and dropped it along with a P-18 from a 20 story building that the P-18 would still be in one piece and will fire and the electronc one won't. Ofcourse if you want to try this experiment we will need to use your P-18 not mine

To use an analogy take the carburetor for instance ( not dropping it from a building , but the Iphone might flutter and drop at a slower speed and live better the the p whatever ???)

a old school carb is a purely mechanical device it has many parts they wear and clog with debris and go out of adjustment , now take a new FI system very few moving parts less prone to fail ( still prone to debris ) which one is more reliable ????
destructive testing does NOT = reliability sorry ! they are 2 different things .

On to the Kids again " THe POOR childrens "

 

[RedAlert]

To use an analogy take the carburetor for instance ( not dropping it from a building , but the Iphone might flutter and drop at a slower speed and live better the the p whatever ???)

a old school carb is a purely mechanical device it has many parts they wear and clog with debris and go out of adjustment , now take a new FI system very few moving parts less prone to fail ( still prone to debris ) which one is more reliable ????
destructive testing does NOT = reliability sorry ! they are 2 different things .

On to the Kids again " THe POOR childrens "

Now your talking in my language ( Me being a car nut). This is a perfect analogy to the all mechanical vs. electrical component pv. Just like most all mechanical mods, if a carb goes bad, it's usually nothing more than a few bucks in parts (spring, gasket, float etc), just like a PV. On an all electrical mod(like a FI motor), the reliability is there, but if something does go wrong, it cost a heck of a lot more to fix (Old quadrajet carb rebuild kit= about $30, 1 fuel injector= $80+) just like the all electric pvs. Some are serviceable by the original manufacturer or someone that really knows what they're doing, but most users wouldnt have a clue where to begin, as opposed to the mechanical pv that are basically "unscrew this, new spring here and you're done".

 

[Grammie]

Thanks Golden, this has really been an awesome thread. Now I have some other ideas of what I'd like to try. If this thread had not come about, I would not know what other (best) choices I'd have available.

I have a p10 on the way, waiting on the ShockWave to be released! I like all mechanical!

At some point, I will try some other mods, but I'll revisit this thread first!

 

[BuzzKill]

Now your talking in my language ( Me being a car nut). This is a perfect analogy to the all mechanical vs. electrical component pv. Just like most all mechanical mods, if a carb goes bad, it's usually nothing more than a few bucks in parts (spring, gasket, float etc), just like a PV. On an all electrical mod(like a FI motor), the reliability is there, but if something does go wrong, it cost a heck of a lot more to fix (Old quadrajet carb rebuild kit= about $30, 1 fuel injector= $80+) just like the all electric pvs. Some are serviceable by the original manufacturer or someone that really knows what they're doing, but most users wouldnt have a clue where to begin, as opposed to the mechanical pv that are basically "unscrew this, new spring here and you're done".

I totally agree with what you are saying BUT we were talking about RELIABILITY not durability OR ease of repair ( not to be a nit picker but I think you understand my point )

anyhow good conversation regarding this issue !!!

I will take the FI anyday over a carb , for one it has a controllable Comp. to adjust the fuel mixture over rpm range ++ so you get better performance as well , almost the same thing as controlling the voltage to a degree ?

 

[HzG8rGrl]

I like the adjustable voltage units that are coming onto the scene and they seem to be getting better and better.
I will continue to check out the market and the new mods as they all offer a bit of this and a bit of that. I am looking for the holy grail-the one that will pay my bills!!! LOL

 

[Goldenkobold]

I think that analogy captures it well
for those who don't want to ever mess with anything under the hood...the fuel injector is a better route...and for those who like to use a computer to control fuel to air ratio...again the fuel injector is better...and there you have the electronic side

For those who don't mind being under the hood...and want to be able to replace whatever breaks when it breaks and don't need all that fancy computer readouts...carb it up....and there you have the mechanical side.

looks like the choice is between a 71' mustang and a 2010 mustang....give me one of each please.

 

[RedAlert]

I totally agree with what you are saying BUT we were talking about RELIABILITY not durability OR ease of repair ( not to be a nit picker but I think you understand my point )

anyhow good conversation regarding this issue !!!

I will take the FI anyday over a carb , for one it has a controllable Comp. to adjust the fuel mixture over rpm range ++ so you get better performance as well , almost the same thing as controlling the voltage to a degree ?

In the car world, I can make a carb do just about as much as FI setup(needles/seats, springs, secondary arms/cams. Nothing like a bigblock breathing through a 1100 cfm barry grant<-----made 32hp/47 ft/lbs more than a pro-jection setup). In the PV world, which is what were really talking about here, no mechanical mods don't offer anywhere near the "tuneability" of the VV setups. They're either off or on, no in between, no adjustment.

 

[BuzzKill]

Ahh but how about F1 ???? now there is the cutting edge ! variable hydraulic valve timing etc etc etc. ! active suspension , FI that is not even on this planet !

 

[Goldenkobold]

In the car world, I can make a carb do just about as much as FI setup(needles/seats, springs, secondary arms/cams. Nothing like a bigblock breathing through a 1100 cfm barry grant<-----made 32hp/47 ft/lbs more than a pro-jection setup). In the PV world, which is what were really talking about here, no mechanical mods don't offer anywhere near the "tuneability" of the VV setups. They're either off or on, no in between, no adjustment.

you could always put a terminator from notcig on the end of your mechanical and get vv out of it...of course if you had a ggts + juice tank + terminator...you could probably use it as a walking stick/pv as it will be getting on the ridiculously long side.

 

[BuzzKill]

HEY we could STACK attys LMOA !!!

then it would be a walking stick !

 

[irefine]

Ok, so if we take a 2010 mustang and a P-10 and throw them both off a building I will still bet on the P-18. Anyone know how to build a satellite?