All the hub-bub about the FDA...

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Michele

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I'm new to all this talk about the FDA still determining if it's "safe" to use e-cigs at all. (At least I think that's what their doing) Anyway, I was just wondering, what's to stop some knuckle-head from using the e-cig to imbibe in illegal drugs? Wouldn't that make it more difficult for e-cigs to be accepted? Not to mention the government not getting their "fair-share", blah blah blah???:confused:
 

DC2

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I have no idea how anyone would use a vaporizor to intake any other types of drugs, and it doesn't seem to be a feasible option to me. But I do know that one angle that some people are taking is the possibility of saying that electronic cigarettes are "drug delivery devices" and as such could be banned.

I just don't understand how that approach will work though, because I know a number of places I can go and buy a ..... They get away with selling bongs because they simply say they are intended for use in smoking tobacco.

Heck, I can bring a pipe across the Mexican border without it being taken away.
As long as it has never been used of course.

If anything, the juice might be banned, although much more likely it would become subject to regulation as being a drug. But I will still be able to smoke zero nicotine juice, which is very easy to make yourself, and I am working my way towards that.
 
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Kent C

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I'm new to all this talk about the FDA still determining if it's "safe" to use e-cigs at all. (At least I think that's what their doing) Anyway, I was just wondering, what's to stop some knuckle-head from using the e-cig to imbibe in illegal drugs? Wouldn't that make it more difficult for e-cigs to be accepted? Not to mention the government not getting their "fair-share", blah blah blah???:confused:

First of all when you have kids sniffing model glue, tearing open vicks inhalers to eat the innards because there's some form of .... in there, etc. etc. you'll never stop that type of thing from happening. And as far as I know the biggest thing with ecigs and the FDA is the 'flavoring'. They've stopped flavored tobacco for 'targeting kids' and that could also translate to ecigs but there are a few congresscritters vaping now. Probably not enough....
 

EbenezerScrews

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wv2win

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First of all when you have kids sniffing model glue, tearing open vicks inhalers to eat the innards because there's some form of .... in there, etc. etc. you'll never stop that type of thing from happening. And as far as I know the biggest thing with ecigs and the FDA is the 'flavoring'. They've stopped flavored tobacco for 'targeting kids' and that could also translate to ecigs but there are a few congresscritters vaping now. Probably not enough....

I think you are right, Kent. And on the flavors point, the FDA has no problem with different flavored nic gum in check out aisle with Orbits gum. From the responses received and provided on this forum from the FDA on PV's, they should have "hypocracy" in their name.
 

Kent C

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I think you are right, Kent. And on the flavors point, the FDA has no problem with different flavored nic gum in check out aisle with Orbits gum. From the responses received and provided on this forum from the FDA on PV's, they should have "hypocracy" in their name.

WV,

Absolutely. There is something too individualistic about smoking, for gov't types and other blue noses. They simply don't want to _see_ it. Ayn Rand wrote:

"I like to think of fire held in a man's hand. Fire, a dangerous force, tamed at his fingertips. I often wonder about the hours when a man sits alone, watching the smoke of a cigarette, thinking. I wonder what great things have come from such hours. When a man thinks, there is a spot of fire alive in his mind--and it is proper that he should have the burning point of a cigarette as his one expression."

No there's no 'fire' but many associate the outflow of smoke and contemplation. For me it wasn't just a ritual but more of a meditative thing and the smoke helped. It was there, but didn't distract.... didn't distract me anyway ;-) ... and I was a responsible smoker - didn't ditch butts and was particularly sensitive to those around me. But very few, except friends, really get that.

I've had people waving their hands and coughing while passing by when the smoke was nowhere near them ... and they coughed worst than I did and I've been smoking for 30 years. lol.
 

Michele

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First of all when you have kids sniffing model glue, tearing open vicks inhalers to eat the innards because there's some form of .... in there, etc. etc. you'll never stop that type of thing from happening. And as far as I know the biggest thing with ecigs and the FDA is the 'flavoring'. They've stopped flavored tobacco for 'targeting kids' and that could also translate to ecigs but there are a few congresscritters vaping now. Probably not enough....

yeah, I figured if you can vape liquid nicotine, they'll probably be vaping liquid THC, hence my question. But you're right, "...you'll never stop that type of thing from happening..." :(
 

DC2

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yeah, I figured if you can vape liquid nicotine, they'll probably be vaping liquid THC, hence my question. But you're right, "...you'll never stop that type of thing from happening..." :(
I can't imagine why anyone would want to vape liquid THC when they have no problem using without vaping. But since this forum does not allow talk about drugs I won't get into why nobody I can think of would ever want to bother with that. Maybe there are some other drugs that might make sense for vaping, but I'm just not seeing it.
 

Lorena_Palin

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yeah, I figured if you can vape liquid nicotine, they'll probably be vaping liquid THC, hence my question. But you're right, "...you'll never stop that type of thing from happening..." :(

You can also role marijuana into a joint using a wrapping paper meant for tobacco. You can smoke it out of a shisha provided you mix it with some shisha tobacco, you can smoke if out of a .... bade from a soada can, tin foil, a bic pen, an apple, or any number of items that can be used to fasion a ..... And failing that that you can always make a pipe from clay, wood, or metal.

Not only that, but crystal .... can be made from cold medicine, laundry detergant and some other ingrediants availible at your local hardware/convinient store.

Addoral and Riddelin, two perscription drugs given to every hyper active child who can't pay attention in math class, can be ground up and snorted like cocain.

A bomb can be made from fertalizer and sugar.

Thermite, an incindiary that was popular in fire bombs before napalm, can be made from ruse and ground aluminum powder.

Gasoline, a very popular fuel in devices known as "cars" can be used to burn down entire buildings.

A gun can be made from a pipe, a spring, and afew odd bits of metal.

And failing that you could always bludgeon somone to death with said pipe, or purchase a golf club, baseball bat, or kitchen knife and kill somone with that. And if you take martial arts or are just really big and nasty you don't even need a weapon.


My point? You can use any object for nefarious and illegal purposes. Hell, prisoners figure out ways to turn tooth brushes into weapons. Now, some are obviousely worse than others, and it is ridiculouse to say "well, since you could concivably burn down an entire city with a single trip to the home depot we might as well let the public purchase anthrax, napalm, and enritched uranium."

But for items that do have legitamet uses other than illegal drug use, murder, or terrorism then I think the rational thing to say is "OK, it's legal, but if you are caught using it the wrong way you will be charged as if you had drug paraphanialia, and illeagal weapon, etc... and we are going to to still have that list at the drug store so we can keep an eye on anyone buying 50 packs of psuefed a week, and if the guy at home depot sees you buying a truckload of fertalizer, it might be a decent idea to make sure you are a landscaping contractor or something like that."

Make sense? If somone uses an E-cig for a THC juice or any other illegal drug then it will be comphiscated as drug paraphanalia, and any fines or consequences (such as being kicked out of dorms in college) for such paraphanalia will be leveraged. If you just have nic juice, it's just like a cigarette, cigar, tobbaco pipe, or whatever.
 

Anchova

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You can also role marijuana into a joint using a wrapping paper meant for tobacco. You can smoke it out of a shisha provided you mix it with some shisha tobacco, you can smoke if out of a .... bade from a soada can, tin foil, a bic pen, an apple, or any number of items that can be used to fasion a ..... And failing that that you can always make a pipe from clay, wood, or metal.

Not only that, but crystal .... can be made from cold medicine, laundry detergant and some other ingrediants availible at your local hardware/convinient store.

Addoral and Riddelin, two perscription drugs given to every hyper active child who can't pay attention in math class, can be ground up and snorted like cocain.

A bomb can be made from fertalizer and sugar.

Thermite, an incindiary that was popular in fire bombs before napalm, can be made from ruse and ground aluminum powder.

Gasoline, a very popular fuel in devices known as "cars" can be used to burn down entire buildings.

A gun can be made from a pipe, a spring, and afew odd bits of metal.

And failing that you could always bludgeon somone to death with said pipe, or purchase a golf club, baseball bat, or kitchen knife and kill somone with that. And if you take martial arts or are just really big and nasty you don't even need a weapon.


My point? You can use any object for nefarious and illegal purposes. Hell, prisoners figure out ways to turn tooth brushes into weapons. Now, some are obviousely worse than others, and it is ridiculouse to say "well, since you could concivably burn down an entire city with a single trip to the home depot we might as well let the public purchase anthrax, napalm, and enritched uranium."

But for items that do have legitamet uses other than illegal drug use, murder, or terrorism then I think the rational thing to say is "OK, it's legal, but if you are caught using it the wrong way you will be charged as if you had drug paraphanialia, and illeagal weapon, etc... and we are going to to still have that list at the drug store so we can keep an eye on anyone buying 50 packs of psuefed a week, and if the guy at home depot sees you buying a truckload of fertalizer, it might be a decent idea to make sure you are a landscaping contractor or something like that."

Make sense? If somone uses an E-cig for a THC juice or any other illegal drug then it will be comphiscated as drug paraphanalia, and any fines or consequences (such as being kicked out of dorms in college) for such paraphanalia will be leveraged. If you just have nic juice, it's just like a cigarette, cigar, tobbaco pipe, or whatever.

You can bludgeon someone to death with a toaster, but they don't regulate them like they do guns. Same thing might apply here if they need an excuse to get e-cigs off the market.
 

dedmonwakin

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You've heard this many times and I'll say it again. The Tobacco industry is a lucrative income for the nation. There is estimated 47.1 million smokers in the U.S. These 47.1 million people pay taxes on cigarettes. We pay....... case closed. The importation will most likely be banned and if not, expect the government to apply such a high tariff to suppliers of the liquid, that vaping has become a financial burden and forced to choose between vaping, conventional (cigs which would be cheaper even at it's highest now), or quitting altogether.

Lets not forget Phillip Morris's grateful contribution to the mortality rate.
CNN.com - Study for Philip Morris found smokers' early deaths helped Czech finances - Jul. 16, 2001

Our nation would crumble if all of us smokers lived.:p
 

Anchova

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You've heard this many times and I'll say it again. The Tobacco industry is a lucrative income for the nation. There is estimated 47.1 million smokers in the U.S. These 47.1 million people pay taxes on cigarettes. We pay....... case closed. The importation will most likely be banned and if not, expect the government to apply such a high tariff to suppliers of the liquid, that vaping has become a financial burden and forced to choose between vaping, conventional (cigs which would be cheaper even at it's highest now), or quitting altogether.

Lets not forget Phillip Morris's grateful contribution to the mortality rate.
CNN.com - Study for Philip Morris found smokers' early deaths helped Czech finances - Jul. 16, 2001

Our nation would crumble if all of us smokers lived.:p

I truly do not understand the tax argument. The government has shown itself to be very adept at levying new taxes, and they wouldn't mind doing it to us if it became lucrative.
 

dedmonwakin

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I truly do not understand the tax argument. The government has shown itself to be very adept at levying new taxes, and they wouldn't mind doing it to us if it became lucrative.
Sorry, I should have clarified. Your statement is true and I agree with you. I wasn't saying that they would ban it because they can't tax it. I was making comment to a previous post on another page, just made a mistake not quoting it and now I'm to lazy to go find it! lol
 

jj2

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There was a request for all to email the FDA. Well I did and here's the response.

Thank you for making your opinions known to the Agency. We appreciate your thoughts and experiences regarding electronic cigarette, cigar, and pipe products.

At this time, we are not aware of any data establishing electronic cigarettes, cigars, or pipes as generally recognized among scientific experts as safe and effective. Based upon our investigation of these products, they are drug/device combinations that require approval by FDA before they may be legally marketed in the United States.

None of these so-called electronic cigarettes, cigars, and pipes, or their components, has been approved by FDA. Therefore, the marketing of them in the United States is subject to enforcement action. As a matter of policy, however, we limit communications about the regulatory status of specific marketed products to those responsible for them, and we do not discuss our enforcement actions except with the targets of those actions.

There may be a perception among some users that electronic cigarettes, cigars, or pipes are safer alternatives to conventional tobacco products. There may also be a perception that these products are a safe and effective means to quit smoking conventional forms of tobacco. However, FDA is not aware of any scientific data to support those perceptions. Since these products have not been submitted to the FDA for evaluation or approval, the agency has no way of knowing the amounts of nicotine or the kinds and amounts of other chemicals that the various brands of these products deliver to the user. FDA is concerned that electronic cigarettes, cigars, or pipes may introduce young people to nicotine use which may lead to an increase in the use of conventional tobacco products with well-known, adverse, health consequences. Additionally, it is unclear what health effects these products could have on users or if misuse or product failure could lead to nicotine poisoning or other serious adverse health consequences.

There are a number of proven safe and effective cessation aids that smokers can use to quit smoking. The U.S. Public Health Service’s, Treating Tobacco Use and Dependence: 2008 Update recommends using a combination of proven cessation interventions including FDA approved nicotine replacement therapy and/or non-nicotine medications and counseling to more than double a smoker’s chances of quitting successfully. Free help is available to smokers in all states by calling 1-800-QUIT-NOW or by visiting Smokefree.gov.


Again, we appreciate the time that you have taken to contact us.

Best regards,

Division of Drug Information 7
Center for Drug Evaluation and Research
Food and Drug Administration



This communication is consistent with 21CFR10.85(k) and constitutes and informal communication that represents our best judgment at this time but does not constitute an advisory opinion, does not necessarily represent the formal position of the FDA, and does not bind or otherwise obligate or commit the agency to the views expressed.
 

jj2

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At the end they just couldn't help promote the other means available to quit.
I can't believe they are so stupid to think everyone is ready to quit!!!
I wasn't and if it wasn't for the e cig, I'd still be puffing away.
Now I'm vaping and I AM NOT USING NICOTINE.
Shows you just how much they really care about my health!!!
 

DC2

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At the end they just couldn't help promote the other means available to quit.
I can't believe they are so stupid to think everyone is ready to quit!!!
I wasn't and if it wasn't for the e cig, I'd still be puffing away.
Now I'm vaping and I AM NOT USING NICOTINE.
Shows you just how much they really care about my health!!!
That is the same letter that others have received in reply.
 

Lorena_Palin

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You can bludgeon someone to death with a toaster, but they don't regulate them like they do guns. Same thing might apply here if they need an excuse to get e-cigs off the market.

Well obviously toasters should only be sold to law enforcement officials or by those who have a license which can only be obtained by presenting a toaster to an agent, which are to be illegal to those without a license
 

nash076

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Well obviously toasters should only be sold to law enforcement officials or by those who have a license which can only be obtained by presenting a toaster to an agent, which are to be illegal to those without a license

Except they don't design toasters with better grips to allow for a more firm grip as you swing them, or heavier material to allow for a faster breaking of the skull, or the ability to swing ten toasters at once.

Please, keep some perspective here. :rolleyes:
 
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