AmeraVape's Erik Hutchinson Speak on the Manhattan Mod Controversy

[treehead]

the un-elected vapor police have tied their undies in a bunch on this one. no we will not idly sit by and watch an internet drive by shooting from a bunch of barely literate punks that don't understand the issues involved. if Todd was here in the USA Ameravapes could take him to the cleaners.being an online reviewer doesn't protect you from defamation laws. all the other bs such as,they have a anti-clone campaign,they called their mod a competition mod,(very clever marketing) and the now legendary we found an old utube video showing this guy using a clone. well yada,yada,yada,whats your point.if you say,"i am holding a pipe bomb in my hand" back it up or shut up.there are very serious legal issues involved here. you can not hide behind free speech or opinion. my advice,if you are a self proclaimed reviewer with a lot of knowledge with a lot of followers is,popularity doesn't insulate you from defamation law.
its time for the e-cig community(i hate using the word community) to grow up.

regards
mike

I respect your point of view sir, but I just don't see it that way for some reason.

~Todd tried to blow through the mod, and couldn't (because it's designed to vent at 35 psi).

~Worried for his faithful viewers (which he has a lot of), he felt responsible to let us know that it didn't vent (because that's what he thought, and who knows, maybe that particular one didn't vent), he didn't say it in a nasty manner, he jokingly jested it's a pipe bomb (because if what he believed to be true, was in fact true, then that's not an unreasonable comparison).

~Todd thoughtfully contacted Erik to let him know what he was experiencing.

~Erik belittles Todd with not so nice attitude saying Todd doesn't know what he's talking about, that he's an awesome engineer, and commands Todd sternly to take down the video.

~Todd (rationally (to me anyway)) asks why it's not venting, just to clear it up before he actually takes down the review. (because for all he knows, Erik could be lying, just trying to save his brand's name. Which in turn could hurt alot of Todd's viewers if that were the case.)

~Erik doesn't explain anything, and rudely threatens legal action. YADDA YADDA YADDA Erik decides to let loose his attorney on Todd.

Now even if we only "caught the tail end of the conversation", that's still pretty uncool even if taken out of context in the best way possible. I don't see how even die-hard Ameravape fans can't see that Erik flipped his lid a little prematurely, I mean threatening to sue is a stereotype I wish America would shake off, and here comes "Ameravape" flying off the handle like this. Anybody on the outside can see Todd was just trying to get the right info to his viewers, PERIOD. Damm the manufacturers, it's all about the consumers, and vapers who spend their money on the equipment. I don't think Todd is the big bad business wrecker in this situation, that's just what Erik's trying to make him out to be, why on earth would Todd do that anyway? Because he didn't get his evil bribe from Ameravape? .

I think Ameravape was the entire instigator in this situation no matter how you look at it, if you rub someone the wrong way because you think your shyza don't stink, expect the same in return. You attract less fly's with vinegar.

 

[WattWick]

What a thread

I like watching Todds reviews (and even the vlogs). I respect the man and his opinions for what they are. His opinions. It's just a bit sad he got entangled in this voopfest.

Don't think Todds reputation suffers, tho. Ameravapes' on the other hand...

On a side-note... Keep them arches away. Supercharge your mod!

 

[dwcraig1]

Gee it sure didn't take long,
$17.25 Manhattan Style 18650 Mechanical Mod - Aluminum + brass at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping

 

[NathanielFT]

Gee it sure didn't take long,
$17.25 Manhattan Style 18650 Mechanical Mod - Aluminum + brass at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping

Its on focalecig as well, choice of 2 colours and comes in the same cheap corny box as the original lol

 

[Agnes Black]

Thanks but no thanks Ameravape I'll take my FUhattan copper over your hob snobbery LOL

 

[K_Tech]

I respect your point of view sir, but I just don't see it that way for some reason.

~Todd tried to blow through the mod, and couldn't (because it's designed to vent at 35 psi).

~Worried for his faithful viewers (which he has a lot of), he felt responsible to let us know that it didn't vent (because that's what he thought, and who knows, maybe that particular one didn't vent), he didn't say it in a nasty manner, he jokingly jested it's a pipe bomb (because if what he believed to be true, was in fact true, then that's not an unreasonable comparison).

~Todd thoughtfully contacted Erik to let him know what he was experiencing.

~Erik belittles Todd with not so nice attitude saying Todd doesn't know what he's talking about, that he's an awesome engineer, and commands Todd sternly to take down the video.

~Todd (rationally (to me anyway)) asks why it's not venting, just to clear it up before he actually takes down the review. (because for all he knows, Erik could be lying, just trying to save his brand's name. Which in turn could hurt alot of Todd's viewers if that were the case.)

~Erik doesn't explain anything, and rudely threatens legal action. YADDA YADDA YADDA Erik decides to let loose his attorney on Todd.

Now even if we only "caught the tail end of the conversation", that's still pretty uncool even if taken out of context in the best way possible. I don't see how even die-hard Ameravape fans can't see that Erik flipped his lid a little prematurely, I mean threatening to sue is a stereotype I wish America would shake off, and here comes "Ameravape" flying off the handle like this. Anybody on the outside can see Todd was just trying to get the right info to his viewers, PERIOD. Damm the manufacturers, it's all about the consumers, and vapers who spend their money on the equipment. I don't think Todd is the big bad business wrecker in this situation, that's just what Erik's trying to make him out to be, why on earth would Todd do that anyway? Because he didn't get his evil bribe from Ameravape? .

I think Ameravape was the entire instigator in this situation no matter how you look at it, if you rub someone the wrong way because you think your shyza don't stink, expect the same in return. You attract less fly's with vinegar.

Well said. I've stayed out of this because I don't have a dog in the fight. Todd's not my bestie, and I don't own stock in Amerivape.

But.

I believe that there were two ways to handle this. One was for Amerivape to contact Todd directly, and explain how he was wrong (and/or what he was doing wrong).

The other was what they actually did - take the "YOU SHUT YOUR [MODERATED] MOUTH, WE ARE GOING TO SUE YOU!"

I, personally, would have respected the first option. and moreover, EXPECTED it from a professional establishment.

 

[mssam]

Well, it looks like ameravape isnt the only one trying to intimidate someone who has a negative review. Here's a hotel that will fine you if you post a negative review about them...

http://pagesix.com/2014/08/04/hotel-charges-500-for-every-bad-review-posted-online/

 

[Midniteoyl]

HAhaha... And look at the problems it caused... Lesson: Business Customer Service 101

 

[NealBJr]

Oh my... I can't believe I missed this whole debacle. I am just now hearing about it. Guess I don't look at the reviews as often as I should. Well, here's my standpoint on the whole situation thus far.

Tod Hutchins (sp?) has acted like a jerk around the whole situation. Todd did a review based on his opinion, and assessed it to the best of his ability. When he found a potentially dangerous flaw, he expressed his concern, and yes, calling it a "pipe bomb" goes along with what he has, to his best abiltiy, assessed. If I was doing the same review, I would've said the same thing. The replies from Ameravapes was not a re-assuring one. He did state that it vents at over 35PSI. That gives me more worries in itself, let alone he hasn't shown any evidence of this test.

A good reply would be to explain the 35PSI. In defense, purpously vent one of his mods to test it, and put that video up and say "see, this does vent". Instead he tries to "bully" him to take the video down.

I don't look at Todds reviews much anymore. He reviews mods that I cannot afford. I have looked at his reviews for a "how this mod works" sort of a thing, and this is exactly what this review did. He has always been open, honest, and he hates to bad-mouth a company. He had a review, said the product was outstanding, except for the venting. And for that one negative part of the review, he was threatened with legal issue.

After seeing Todds reviews, I have several issues with the mod instead of just the venting. The thick copper/brass means there is a delay in the heat transferrance.. which means the battery may be getting hotter than what you feel on the outside. This can make a big difference between taking another hit on a battery about to vent or letting the battery cool down a bit more. This mod is marketed as a competition mod, so expect people to push it to the limits. Another issue, is if a battery were to vent, that's 35PSI of hot gasses well over 200 degrees being pointed at the finger firing the mod. Not only that, but it will turn the mod into a rocket pointed at your face or in your mouth. To me, a 35PSI venting option is not a good one. And lastly, the machining is good, but close. leaving such a narrow gap between the button and the tube, and relying on that "slimmer than paper thin" gap leaves little space for error. If a person were to lube that gap during a competition like they suggest, what is the PSI rating then? what if dirt, dust, or debris get in that gap..... leaving such a narrow margin for venting is dangerous in my mind.

I view this mod as dangerous. They keep defending it instead of improving on it. IF people have an issue like me with the venting, then give me more confidence before I give you any money. An honest company concerned about ME, is one that earns my loyalty. Instead, he sounds like he is concerned more about his product and his company over the people he sells it to.

I won't be getting a Manhattan. And if they make a 1:1 clone of the Manhattan, I won't be buying that either. I'm probably correct in saying that the clones will have better venting properties than the original. But until I see it, I won't even be buying a clone of one.

As far as the review, If he's American, than he should support the right of "freedom of speach"... instead, he is trying to supress freedom of speach while playing the "Proudly American" card. That is called an oxymoron statement. Tout that it's American made, be proud it's American made. Stand up for your product and show it's strengths... don't try to shut down someone's freedom of speach. Also, keep in mind that not all vapers are American, so "American Made" only appeals to a percentage of the market. Adjust your marketing strategies to compensate.

 

[treehead]

Well said. I've stayed out of this because I don't have a dog in the fight. Todd's not my bestie, and I don't own stock in Amerivape.

But.

I believe that there were two ways to handle this. One was for Amerivape to contact Todd directly, and explain how he was wrong (and/or what he was doing wrong).

The other was what they actually did - take the "YOU SHUT YOUR [MODERATED] MOUTH, WE ARE GOING TO SUE YOU!"

I, personally, would have respected the first option. and moreover, EXPECTED it from a professional establishment.

I know right? , I mean forget business sense, that's just COMMON sense to explain how the other person is wrong . The dude was obviously having a power-trip and/or WAAAY overreacting, I mean, most vapers don't even care if it vents anyway. (I shamefully don't care myself XD, I'll just drill a nice little hole myself for the right mod!).

He was acting like Todd's video (that had been up maybe half an hour), was going to ruin his career forever and ever. In reality his tantrum did just that, the irony...lmao.

 

[VaPreis]

I won't be getting a Manhattan. And if they make a 1:1 clone of the Manhattan, I won't be buying that either. I'm probably correct in saying that the clones will have better venting properties than the original. But until I see it, I won't even be buying a clone of one.

I don't understand why anyone would buy one. It's a boring looking metal tube that doesn't vent properly.

There is other boring looking metal tubes that vent properly. Or if one is so inclined, attractive looking metal tubes that vent properly.

 

[treehead]

Oh my... I can't believe I missed this whole debacle. I am just now hearing about it. Guess I don't look at the reviews as often as I should. Well, here's my standpoint on the whole situation thus far.

Tod Hutchins (sp?) has acted like a jerk around the whole situation. Todd did a review based on his opinion, and assessed it to the best of his ability. When he found a potentially dangerous flaw, he expressed his concern, and yes, calling it a "pipe bomb" goes along with what he has, to his best abiltiy, assessed. If I was doing the same review, I would've said the same thing. The replies from Ameravapes was not a re-assuring one. He did state that it vents at over 35PSI. That gives me more worries in itself, let alone he hasn't shown any evidence of this test.

A good reply would be to explain the 35PSI. In defense, purpously vent one of his mods to test it, and put that video up and say "see, this does vent". Instead he tries to "bully" him to take the video down.

I don't look at Todds reviews much anymore. He reviews mods that I cannot afford. I have looked at his reviews for a "how this mod works" sort of a thing, and this is exactly what this review did. He has always been open, honest, and he hates to bad-mouth a company. He had a review, said the product was outstanding, except for the venting. And for that one negative part of the review, he was threatened with legal issue.

After seeing Todds reviews, I have several issues with the mod instead of just the venting. The thick copper/brass means there is a delay in the heat transferrance.. which means the battery may be getting hotter than what you feel on the outside. This can make a big difference between taking another hit on a battery about to vent or letting the battery cool down a bit more. This mod is marketed as a competition mod, so expect people to push it to the limits. Another issue, is if a battery were to vent, that's 35PSI of hot gasses well over 200 degrees being pointed at the finger firing the mod. Not only that, but it will turn the mod into a rocket pointed at your face or in your mouth. To me, a 35PSI venting option is not a good one. And lastly, the machining is good, but close. leaving such a narrow gap between the button and the tube, and relying on that "slimmer than paper thin" gap leaves little space for error. If a person were to lube that gap during a competition like they suggest, what is the PSI rating then? what if dirt, dust, or debris get in that gap..... leaving such a narrow margin for venting is dangerous in my mind.

I view this mod as dangerous. They keep defending it instead of improving on it. IF people have an issue like me with the venting, then give me more confidence before I give you any money. An honest company concerned about ME, is one that earns my loyalty. Instead, he sounds like he is concerned more about his product and his company over the people he sells it to.

I won't be getting a Manhattan. And if they make a 1:1 clone of the Manhattan, I won't be buying that either. I'm probably correct in saying that the clones will have better venting properties than the original. But until I see it, I won't even be buying a clone of one.

As far as the review, If he's American, than he should support the right of "freedom of speach"... instead, he is trying to supress freedom of speach while playing the "Proudly American" card. That is called an oxymoron statement. Tout that it's American made, be proud it's American made. Stand up for your product and show it's strengths... don't try to shut down someone's freedom of speach. Also, keep in mind that not all vapers are American, so "American Made" only appeals to a percentage of the market. Adjust your marketing strategies to compensate.

My thoughts EXACTLY brother, down to the engineering of this thing!

Like I said and you confirmed earlier, this thing is a heavy, acid/gas, propelled ROCKET! LMAO putting the psi of a TRUCK'S TIRE inside of a thick indestructable tube just sounds scary. The only reason this thing would be "designed" to vent at 35 psi, which I believe was a accident claimed for intention, is to see how close to space this mod can get when it actually vents.

I can imagine some poor kid not feeling the heat through the 1" brass tube (which I theorize will actually RETAIN the heat longer than you want it too, it's a battery kiln), hearing a slight whistle, and the thing rocketing into his face, and then flying down the road like a roman-candle of death lol. I'm not even sure if a battery would be able to escape 35psi, I wouldn't doubt alot of it would remain until you open the bottom like a champagne bottle.

 

[NealBJr]

I don't understand why anyone would buy one. It's a boring looking metal tube that doesn't vent properly.

There is other boring looking metal tubes that vent properly. Or if one is so inclined, attractive looking metal tubes that vent properly.

I actually ran across this whole story by looking at a copper mod, and looking at a review on it. After the review, I saw Twisted 420's review on the Ameravapes' product. Seeing his response made me do more research in the subject. I saw Todd's review, saw Ameravapes reply, did internet research on the whole subject... And came to the conclusion. I did a search on here to see what others were saying, and thought I'd add my opinions in.

I was actually looking for a copper mod to see if there was much change in performance. I mainly do tanks, so I'd try it on tanks, and do a sub ohm build on a copper mod just to say I did it. My ADV is about .8 ohms 28 gauge on a mechanical, or 1.6 ohms @ 13w 32 gauge on a regulated. Not cloud chasing builds at all, but a good mix between flavor and vapor.

 

[NealBJr]

My thoughts EXACTLY brother, down to the engineering of this thing!

Like I said and you confirmed earlier, this thing is a heavy, acid/gas, propelled ROCKET! LMAO putting the psi of a TRUCK'S TIRE inside of a thick indestructable tube just sounds scary. The only reason this thing would be "designed" to vent at 35 psi, which I believe was a accident claimed for intention, is to see how close to space this mod can get when it actually vents.

I can imagine some poor kid not feeling the heat through the 1" brass tube (which I theorize will actually RETAIN the heat longer than you want it too, it's a battery kiln), hearing a slight whistle, and the thing rocketing into his face, and then flying down the road like a roman-candle of death lol. I'm not even sure if a battery would be able to escape 35psi, I wouldn't doubt alot of it would remain until you open the bottom like a champagne bottle.

Yup.. sad thing is..he doesn't even have to be sub-ohming when that happens. IF there's a short in the center pin, or an insulator out of alignment... soooo many things can go wrong that even an experienced person may not catch.

 

[treehead]

I don't understand why anyone would buy one. It's a boring looking metal tube that doesn't vent properly.

There is other boring looking metal tubes that vent properly. Or if one is so inclined, attractive looking metal tubes that vent properly.

I hear ya, but I'm ashamed to admit, before I learned the maker was a douche, I actually wanted a copper one really bad (I can drill my own vent hole anyway.). For me it's all about it's design which is pretty cool I have to admit. It's the thickest walled mod on the planet (helps for good conductivity), it uses a massive magnet to hold the battery to the button, thus making it a simple design with not a lot of individual parts for the current to pass through. The button looks really smooth and bullet-proof (I'm a HUGE button OCD vaper, a bad switch is literally a deal breaker, this one uses a firm magnet with alot of "slide surface"). The coolest part besides the super thick aluminum lined body is the BIG gold plated copper contacts. The stingray is the only other mod out there that makes better contacts, but ameravape uses gold, which doesn't tarnish , If I don't have to clean my contacts every time I change a battery that'll be amazing (I feel the need to with copper or silver, again OCD lol.). The whole thing is just built for vapers like me, it's one of the best performance oriented mod designs I've seen yet. I agree that it is plain and boring, but that doesn't matter to me , a mod is just a tool to vape to me, however since it's so thick, I could get my own engraving on it...hmmm.

If they ever make a copper 26650 mod, I'm going to overlook the attitude, and buy the heck out of that thing!

Yup.. sad thing is..he doesn't even have to be sub-ohming when that happens. IF there's a short in the center pin, or an insulator out of alignment... soooo many things can go wrong that even an experienced person may not catch.

Very true, too many factors, if I ever design a mod, there's going to be ceramic and delrin EVERYWHERE separating the individual parts. I've had a button contact work it's way loose out of the thread hole once, and it perfectly wedged itself between the bottom and the battery, so I had a firing mod (with the button not being pressed), and I had to scramble it open before my cotton caught on fire! lol. I've been looking at the congestus recently, because those side firers seem to be alot more safe. Plus, it can hold dual 26650's! 8.4 volts and 100 continuous amps here I come! .

 

[dwcraig1]

The strength of the of the magnet outside of the mod is the deal breaker for me. Don't be sitting one on the palm rest on your laptop above the hard drive.

 

[Alien Traveler]

It's the thickest walled mod on the planet (helps for good conductivity)

It’s a marketing bullmanure. Resistivety of copper is about 100 times better than that of kanthal. So, the thinnest (like kanthal wire) copper tube will have resistance thousands times lower than a coil. In terms of conductivity it does not matter how thick (or thin) a tube is.

 

[Midniteoyl]

It’s a marketing bullmanure. Resistivety of copper is about 100 times better than that of kanthal. So, the thinnest (like kanthal wire) copper tube will have resistance thousands times lower than a coil. In terms of conductivity it does not matter how thick (or thin) a tube is.

Agree... not to mention it all goes through threads which dont do more than half touch anyways

 

[HauntedMyst]

Which is why Noalox rocks!

 

[Midniteoyl]

Which is why Noalox rocks!

Which is Zinc, which further invalidates the 'copper hype'