AmeraVape's Erik Hutchinson Speak on the Manhattan Mod Controversy

[fourtytwo]

I seem to remember a very different reaction from a manufacturer to a similar situation a few years back.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/apv-discussion/322459-smoktech-telescope-air-tight.html

Many also called that device a pipe bomb when it failed a balloon test.

The difference was that the manufacturer admitted that there was a problem instead of trying to call it a feature. They then fixed it instead of acting like a little baby with a temper tantrum.

 

[treehead]

alien Traveler" data-source="post: 13887792" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

It’s a marketing bullmanure. Resistivety of copper is about 100 times better than that of kanthal. So, the thinnest (like kanthal wire) copper tube will have resistance thousands times lower than a coil. In terms of conductivity it does not matter how thick (or thin) a tube is.

Not true whatsoever, although it will make a small difference, the fact that it passes through a certain resistance has nothing to do with the start of the circuit. That's why when you see voltage drop tests that result in losing as much as 3 volts, that's a terrible conductivity, and literally wasting your battery. The thickness of the tube simply helps to get the initial power TO the coil, the fact that the resistance wire has more resistance doesn't mean anything. I mean yeah, if your mod is the thickness of your kanthal, it WILL deliver the current to the coil, but not well. All what you just said means that the coil will get power via copper, but what the thickness enhances is how MUCH power will arrive. I've had a wide array of the most terrible copper, and even worse brass, stainless steel and steel contacts mods, to the best (BFM, 4nine copper, Red Copper LE Stingray by JDTech and Sir Lancelot) copper mods, and there's a striking difference in speed and strength of current, as well as how efficient it is on your battery, which is the easiest way to tell.

The longer a conductor is, the more it will resist.
The thicker the conductor is, the more it will conduct

 

[treehead]

Which is Zinc, which further invalidates the 'copper hype'

Lol it's not hype, it's science.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Not true whatsoever, although it will make a small difference, the fact that it passes through a certain resistance has nothing to do with the start of the circuit. That's why when you see voltage drop tests that result in losing as much as 3 volts, that's a terrible conductivity, and literally wasting your battery. The thickness of the tube simply helps to get the initial power TO the coil, the fact that the resistance wire has more resistance doesn't mean anything. I mean yeah, if your mod is the thickness of your kanthal, it WILL deliver the current to the coil, but not well. All what you just said means that the coil will get power via copper, but what the thickness enhances is how MUCH power will arrive. I've had a wide array of the most terrible copper, and even worse brass, stainless steel and steel contacts mods, to the best (BFM, 4nine copper, Red Copper LE Stingray by JDTech and Sir Lancelot) copper mods, and there's a striking difference in speed and strength of current, as well as how efficient it is on your battery, which is the easiest way to tell.

The longer a conductor is, the more it will resist.
The thicker the conductor is, the more it will conduct

With the thickness and length of a typical mod, it does not matter. The thickness would have to be thinner than paper to effect the voltage. What DOES matter is the threads and how well they conduct that power to the next part. Simple test: A copper and Steel wire the same length and gauge, like 4" and 14ga, put 4v power to one end, and see what the voltage drops are. Now times the gauge of the wire by, say 10 (to simulate the whole tube), and extrapolate the resulting voltage drops. In both cases, it will be as close to NIL as you can get.

 

[K_Tech]

With the thickness and length of a typical mod, it does not matter. The thickness would have to be thinner than paper to effect the voltage. What DOES matter is the threads and how well they conduct that power to the next part. Simple test: A copper and Steel wire the same length and gauge, like 4" and 14ga, put 4v power to one end, and see what the voltage drops are. Now times the gauge of the wire by, say 10 (to simulate the whole tube), and extrapolate the resulting voltage drops. In both cases, it will be as close to NIL as you can get.

Absolute truth.

And I'd like to add that I believe a lot of people are misunderstanding voltage drop.

Voltage drop, in any electronic circuit, is simply the "loss" of power as current flows through the passive elements of a circuit - passive elements being anything you do NOT need to apply power to. As with any circuit, voltage drop can be calculated using V=IR.

Here is where the problems begin.

Vaper #1 has a SS Nemesis, Atomic RDA at 0.7 ohms, and a fully charged VTC5 battery. He puts one of those scew-in battery testers, hits the button, sees that voltage is 3.88 volts, and comes up with a "voltage drop" of 0.32 volts.

Vaper #2 has a Cu Nemesis, Atomic RDA at 0.15 ohms, and a Trustfire battery (Yeah, this is dumb, I know). He hits the button, sees 3.28 volts, and declares the mod to be horrible because the "voltage drop" is almost one volt.

Now swap batteries and measure again. Who has the better mod?

The number "we" should be concerned with, the one you CANNOT measure with a screw-on voltmeter, is the internal resistance of the mod. How much power is being lost across the switch, battery-to-mod contacts, threaded connections, and body tube(s) of the mod?

Unless "we" measure this resistance, all we're really talking about is battery sag under load, which is useful when comparing battery types, but not so useful when talking about the mod itself.

 

[fourtytwo]

You know what? This discussion sounds a lot like when I was a lot younger.
I used to meet up with a bunch of my motorcycle friends and go for rides. On these rides, we might meet up with others and on our stops and we would invariably discuss the merits of one bike vs another. Often, this would involve quoting the quarter mile times.
One party, or another, would go on about how this bike was better then that because its posted time from the manufacturer was 10.23 vs 10.25 for the other.
Nobody ever mentioned that these times were by expert riders in controlled environments with prepared bikes and the likelihood of any of use repeating these times was nil.
At the end of the day, when all is said and done, our respect went to the better rider, not the "better" bike.
Same for vaping gear. If you think that you can actually detect the difference of a hundredth of a volt or tenth of a watt between this device and another, think also about the condition if everything else in your setup.
How tight and clean are the threads? How old is the coil? what condition is the battery? etc, etc, etc...
Lets face it. If you were truly that concerned about getting that last few hundredth of a volt, you can get more and consistent power from an inexpensive regulated VV/VW device.

 

[Midniteoyl]

You know what? This discussion sounds a lot like when I was a lot younger.
I used to meet up with a bunch of my motorcycle friends and go for rides. On these rides, we might meet up with others and on our stops and we would invariably discuss the merits of one bike vs another. Often, this would involve quoting the quarter mile times.
One party, or another, would go on about how this bike was better then that because its posted time from the manufacturer was 10.23 vs 10.25 for the other.
Nobody ever mentioned that these times were by expert riders in controlled environments with prepared bikes and the likelihood of any of use repeating these times was nil.
At the end of the day, when all is said and done, our respect went to the better rider, not the "better" bike.
Same for vaping gear. If you think that you can actually detect the difference of a hundredth of a volt or tenth of a watt between this device and another, think also about the condition if everything else in your setup.
How tight and clean are the threads? How old is the coil? what condition is the battery? etc, etc, etc...
Lets face it. If you were truly that concerned about getting that last few hundredth of a volt, you can get more and consistent power from an inexpensive regulated VV/VW device.

Dont even know if it was actually test with a rider.. Most likely just number crunching.

 

[Ryedan]

You know what? This discussion sounds a lot like when I was a lot younger.
I used to meet up with a bunch of my motorcycle friends and go for rides. On these rides, we might meet up with others and on our stops and we would invariably discuss the merits of one bike vs another. Often, this would involve quoting the quarter mile times.
One party, or another, would go on about how this bike was better then that because its posted time from the manufacturer was 10.23 vs 10.25 for the other.
Nobody ever mentioned that these times were by expert riders in controlled environments with prepared bikes and the likelihood of any of use repeating these times was nil.
At the end of the day, when all is said and done, our respect went to the better rider, not the "better" bike.
Same for vaping gear. If you think that you can actually detect the difference of a hundredth of a volt or tenth of a watt between this device and another, think also about the condition if everything else in your setup.
How tight and clean are the threads? How old is the coil? what condition is the battery? etc, etc, etc...
Lets face it. If you were truly that concerned about getting that last few hundredth of a volt, you can get more and consistent power from an inexpensive regulated VV/VW device.

Great post fourtytwo, except for the last sentence . Yes, you get consistency from regulated mods, but you can't get more power from them. Power is ultimately limited by the battery. A regulator has power loss that takes away from the battery's power capability and it's more than a percent or two. Include 'inexpensive' in the mix and it gets worse.

Having said that, I really don't think ultimate power is everything it's cracked up to be. Which brings me back to the rest of your post. Kudos, I think you got that exactly right

 

[skoony]

Great post fourtytwo, except for the last sentence . Yes, you get consistency from regulated mods, but you can't get more power from them. Power is ultimately limited by the battery. A regulator has power loss that takes away from the battery's power capability and it's more than a percent or two. Include 'inexpensive' in the mix and it gets worse.

Having said that, I really don't think ultimate power is everything it's cracked up to be. Which brings me back to the rest of your post. Kudos, I think you got that exactly right

lets not forget that when pushing batteries to these extremes voltage readings are unreliable at best.
regards
mike