An alternate mixing method?

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Ed Brown

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I'm new to DIY and so far have invested in a set of funnels, and a set of lab-quality graduated cylinders, with the smallest one being 5 ml and accurate to 1/10th of a ml. Being an engineer by trade, and wanting to avoid the fussiness of syringes and the fact that they are sold as "single use" only, I came up with an alternate method using the concept of serial dilution that seems to make sense and avoids syringes. Here are the results of my first batch:

1. Starting with a 150 ml bottle of 100mg/ml nicotine juice, divide it into five 30 ml bottles. Since these 30 ml bottles actually hold 37 ml, I added 7 ml of pg to top them off and eliminate the air space. This dilutes the liquid down to 81.1 mg/ml. Four of them go into the freezer.

2. Pour the 37 ml of concentrate into a 32 ounce mixing bottle, add 145 ml of PG, and add 185 ml of VG. This yields 367 ml of juice at 8.2 mg/ml, 54/46 VG/PG, which fills three 120 ml bottles to 122.3 ml. Two of them go into the freezer.

3. This bottle is then used to make four 31 ml batches for flavor experimentation. I figured that if a batch turned out terrible, it would only waste a small amount. I put 23 ml of the 8.2 liquid into a 30 ml bottle, added 4 ml of flavorings, and another 4 ml of VG to make the numbers work out, and get 31 ml at 6.1mg/ml with a 12.9% flavor content (by volume) and 53/47 VG/PG.

I'll be able to make 3 more batches by just repeating step 3, and then repeat steps 2 & 3.

The numbers can be adjusted for larger bottles of nicotine or to get different results. The idea of serial dilution is a well known laboratory technique.

I may need to refine the procedure to account for the flavor liquids. I assumed that they use 100% PG, and I'm not sure if the flavoring should be considered to be 100%. That's a relatively small matter that can be tweaked with experimentation.

Apologies if this has already been posted. There's a lot of threads here!

Thoughts, anyone?
 

bombastinator

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I'm new to DIY and so far have invested in a set of funnels, and a set of lab-quality graduated cylinders, with the smallest one being 5 ml and accurate to 1/10th of a ml. Being an engineer by trade, and wanting to avoid the fussiness of syringes and the fact that they are sold as "single use" only, I came up with an alternate method using the concept of serial dilution that seems to make sense and avoids syringes. Here are the results of my first batch:

1. Starting with a 150 ml bottle of 100mg/ml nicotine juice, divide it into five 30 ml bottles. Since these 30 ml bottles actually hold 37 ml, I added 7 ml of pg to top them off and eliminate the air space. This dilutes the liquid down to 81.1 mg/ml. Four of them go into the freezer.

2. Pour the 37 ml of concentrate into a 32 ounce mixing bottle, add 145 ml of PG, and add 185 ml of VG. This yields 367 ml of juice at 8.2 mg/ml, 54/46 VG/PG, which fills three 120 ml bottles to 122.3 ml. Two of them go into the freezer.

3. This bottle is then used to make four 31 ml batches for flavor experimentation. I figured that if a batch turned out terrible, it would only waste a small amount. I put 23 ml of the 8.2 liquid into a 30 ml bottle, added 4 ml of flavorings, and another 4 ml of VG to make the numbers work out, and get 31 ml at 6.1mg/ml with a 12.9% flavor content (by volume) and 53/47 VG/PG.

I'll be able to make 3 more batches by just repeating step 3, and then repeat steps 2 & 3.

The numbers can be adjusted for larger bottles of nicotine or to get different results. The idea of serial dilution is a well known laboratory technique.

I may need to refine the procedure to account for the flavor liquids. I assumed that they use 100% PG, and I'm not sure if the flavoring should be considered to be 100%. That's a relatively small matter that can be tweaked with experimentation.

Apologies if this has already been posted. There's a lot of threads here!

Thoughts, anyone?
Yep. This is why standard mg numbers are a bit odd. You don’t see 25mg,20mg,15mg. You see 24mg, 18mg,12mg, 9mg, 6mg, 3mg.

the only measuring tools I use are a 15ml graduated cylinder, a 200ml beaker, and a couple funnels. Everything is plastic. I use the measurement stuff only to mix base, and only if I care a lot about whether the numbers are accurate.
Generally I don’t. I just use straight sided cylindrical squeeze bottles and measure by eye. A quarter to a fifth full of 100mg/ml nic base, around a fifth of that for flavoring and the rest VG makes a decent enough vape for me. My standards aren’t high though. I’m kind of a knuckle dragger juice wise.
A lot of people here measure stuff by weight.
 
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mcclintock

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    I mix 300 ml of base in a condiment bottle, leaves plenty of shake room. The PG and VG is by marks once determined by weight and then I add 3 ml, with a syringe, of 100 mg nic for 1 mg (25 ml of nic from the freezer lasts months). Then, after filling 30 ml bottles to 24.5 ml for a long time (to leave shake room), I now just eyeball them. Then flavoring mostly measured by drops. Many are less than 1% flavoring. I use predilution when less than one drop (.1%) is needed. Lowest is 3 drops. I also have a 21% flavor but that's made seperately and used in small tanks only.
     
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    vaper1960

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    That's a fine method except the flavor part... 12.9 % for all flavors (or did I misunderstand?) BTW is the nic in PG pr VG (you didn't say) Also, as mentioned, in the final small bottles you need some headroom space to shake the juice. You really need to shake it well the first time after mixing. If you think about it, after using some, you will have airspace anyway. Don't make more than 1 bottle at a time for each flavor until you are sure you like it (and some need time to steep before you decide) Last thought: you can always add more flavor after testing, but diluting too strong of flavor will be hard with a full bottle. BTW, I'm very new to this too and don't claim to be any kind of expert. I don't really understand why you don't like syringes. If nothing else, I use them for the flavors with small batches. Personally, the first time I try a flavor, I just make 10 ml batch (then after "learning" that flavor, I'll combine flavors and retest) A simple RDA (dripper) is great for flavor testing (try one, remove wick, dry burn, re-wick and so on)
     

    bombastinator

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    That's a fine method except the flavor part... 12.9 % for all flavors (or did I misunderstand?)
    yes you did. Or you didn’t and he’s making a mistake. Not sure who the OP is anymore. Drastically in some cases.

    Flavor is by taste and taste is individual but most commonly it varies by flavor. 5%-15% is common with the higher number ones often being fruits. Stuff like menthol and tobacco absolut can be far lower than 5% though. I happen to prefer a brand that has/had prebalanced stuff for “suggested” flavoring levels of 10%. Not sure if it’s even made anymore. I bought a lifetime supply. Company was/is called flavorwest. It’s not considered the best but I like it fine. Certainly was/is cheap though.
    BTW is the nic in PG pr VG (you didn't say)
    it can be bought several different ways. It can be bought with a base of either one. It’s dangerous pure though. The highest I use is ~10% pure which is 100mg/ml and I mix it down with 0 nic base which can be bought cheaply as a food additive.
    Also, as mentioned, in the final small bottles you need some headroom space to shake the juice.
    well, you do and you don’t. Less headroom=more shaking. Sometimes lots more.
    You really need to shake it well the first time after mixing. If you think about it, after using some, you will have airspace anyway. Don't make more than 1 bottle at a time for each flavor until you are sure you like it (and some need time to steep before you decide) Last thought: you can always add more flavor after testing, but diluting too strong of flavor will be hard with a full bottle. BTW, I'm very new to this too and don't claim to be any kind of expert. I don't really understand why you don't like syringes. If nothing else, I use them for the flavors with small batches. Personally, the first time I try a flavor, I just make 10 ml batch (then after "learning" that flavor, I'll combine flavors and retest) A simple RDA (dripper) is great for flavor testing (try one, remove wick, dry burn, re-wick and so on)
     
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    Letitia

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    Actually I see more custards being used at higher % than fruits. I seldom use over 4% for any fruit and some as low as 0.3. Point is there is no hard rules with flavor percentages. Personally I wouldn't recommend mixing more than 10ml testers until you gain some experience with your flavors. Dumping 10ml down the drain wouldn't bother me, 30ml dump is just a waste of resources imo. For myself I find pre-mixing my base in 600ml batches and mixing by weight more efficient. Put in flavors then top off with base.
     

    Ed Brown

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    Thanks for the replies. This is a friendly place where even the veterans are friendly! I did forget to mention that the 100 mg liquid is 50/50. Agree that flavoring will be trial and error, and 10 ml batches make sense. Maybe a reusable, calibrated, glass dropper would be a good addition.

    About steeping: How long? Capped or uncapped? My first batch initially smelled like feet. Hopefully it'll come around.
     

    Letitia

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    Thanks for the replies. This is a friendly place where even the veterans are friendly! I did forget to mention that the 100 mg liquid is 50/50. Agree that flavoring will be trial and error, and 10 ml batches make sense. Maybe a reusable, calibrated, glass dropper would be a good addition.

    About steeping: How long? Capped or uncapped? My first batch initially smelled like feet. Hopefully it'll come around.
    I only don't remove the cap, it just lets flavor molecules escape. With a solid steep any alcohol will usually bleed/gas off in the bottle. If the mix is a bit harsh after steeping I'll leave the cap off 20-30 minutes. Seldom have to do that though. Used to leave off cap for a couple hours until I did more reading and those that recommended leaving the cap on were correct in my experience. On another note you may find using a single dropper tedious. If you go that route use a cup of distilled water to rinse the dropper between flavors. All I can tell you is I wish I had invested in a scale from the word go, much more efficient. If you want to measure by the drop I suggest using ultras like flavorah, nature's flavors, or medicine flower. Also when using a dropper you'll need to measure how many drops needed per ml. Easier to get a syringe, you can rinse those out as well.
     
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    DeloresRose

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    I guess if it works for you, it works for you. Sounds way too fussy for me.

    I just decant my nic into as many Boston bottles as it takes. If it doesn’t fill the last bottle, no big deal because I’m going to mix with that soon enough.

    I’ve been mixing long enough that I have lots if recipes that I make over and over, and I know where I want my nic and pg/vg. Many of them are the same flavor percentages or close enough that I can make a lot of base, and might only need to add a bit of pg to make up the percentages if that one calls for less flavor.

    I don’t see any reason to divide your nic into bottles and add an odd amount of pg. but your calculator will sort that out.

    I don’t use syringes myself, but those who do wash and reuse them. I think the single use idea is for using them for human or animal injections, not for vape related measurements.

    If you want to keep the use of measuring tools to a minimum, you will want to read up on mixing by weight. Some swear by it.

    I have been attempting it, but I’m not terrible dexterous and tend to over pour, so I still need measuring devices. I use graduated cylinders and disposable pipettes, along with the scale. It’s not for everyone but I’m getting great results, very accurate reproduction of juice. Worth it for me.
     

    DeloresRose

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    Agree with @Letitia I don’t open steep anything any more. I do write the mix date on my labels so I have an idea if they’re ready to use. Some people like to make shake n vape and while you can vape anything right away, I find most benefit from at least a day or two. Most of mine are better at 2-3 weeks and completely developed at 4-6. I tend to stick with bigger batches for the ones that will remain stable for months and months, and only make what I can use of the ones that fade or get weird.

    These are all things that become evident with experience.

    Do take notes. Lots of notes.
     

    vaper1960

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    Just to clarify... syringes without needles (but buy them with blunt needles anyway... good for filling fussy tanks) Or get them at the drug store (used for children's medicine) Small plastic bottles with narrow tips about 30-40 drops = 1 ml, larger glass droppers about 20 drops (I only use this method for boosting weak flavor or adding other flavors in very small amounts like if I decide my "french toast" need a bit of cinnamon) Hey, I talk like I know what I'm doing... actually only been at it a couple months.
     

    Letitia

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    I always test flavors in 10 ml batches. 10 drops of flavor, add premixed nic base and shake. Then I can adjust the flavor after I try it. If too weak add more drops, if too strong add more base. Write it down for each batch and then write down adjustments made.
    Do you mix by drops? What % value do you give per drop?
     

    DeloresRose

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    Just to clarify... syringes without needles (but buy them with blunt needles anyway... good for filling fussy tanks) Or get them at the drug store (used for children's medicine) Small plastic bottles with narrow tips about 30-40 drops = 1 ml, larger glass droppers about 20 drops (I only use this method for boosting weak flavor or adding other flavors in very small amounts like if I decide my "french toast" need a bit of cinnamon) Hey, I talk like I know what I'm doing... actually only been at it a couple months.


    Mixing is like that. You go from ‘I have no idea what I’m doing’ To having 30 recipes of your own and half the kitchen full of steeping bottles in no time flat. We’re lucky that we have a great diy community to assist.
     
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    vaper1960

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    DeloresRose, I'm looking forward to the day when I settle in on a few recipes and make larger batches. I've been using MTL tanks with drop-in coils (mixing 48mg nic in PG with VG and up to 10% flavors to end up around 65VG/35PG 12 mg) Now I'm doing RTAs and need thicker juice with less nic... next time I'll just get nic, VG and PG separate so I can have different bases. Forgot and vaped 12 mg juice in a dual coil at 40 watts... didn't last long!
     
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