AN OPEN LETTER TO ALL SELLERS OF "NEW REVISION-THICKER WICK" CE2s/E2s.

[mwa102464]

Bottom line = We all could buy from China for cheaper pricing, but we let the vendors do it and they make a profit off of the customer, that's business, but when a problem like this arises we the customers shouldn't have to pay for it, that's why where buying from our US vendors and giving them our business. They in return need to take care of us and sell us what is advertised and what we think we are purchasing or we wont continue giving them out business so they lose in the end, just like the OP's main point was in his thread I believe, honest business practices good pricing & great CS keep customers.!

 

[aprioristic]

Can I join this class action suit?

Maybe these guys aren't so bad but I had a horrible experience with GotVapes and the first run of Clearomizers. These were supposed to be all new "more untwisted" wicks and all the old problems were solved. They claimed that they worked with the manufacturer to ensure that no primer would be used and so on.

I don't know if it was primer, but whatever was in the first one I tasted was probably the nastiest taste in vaping I have ever had. Luckily I tried Ikenvape after this debacle and never looked back. I tried all the tips on using them, spending way more hours than is reasonable just trying to not get a carto that completely ruins vaping for you. A few weren't as nasty as the first I tried, but there was always still some nasty flavor (yes I cleaned them too).

Besides the fact that the product just sucked, I had ordered 5 boxes of 510 and KR8 in all three levels of Ohms and 2 or 3 of the boxes were the wrong size/resistance. I told this to the owner and what do I get? I get offered a discount (25% I think) on my next order... My next order??? Yeah ....ing right. I advise you all to run, far far away from anyone selling these things.

 

[hellcatrydr]

Can I join this class action suit?

No. You've somehow missed the point completely.

 

[aprioristic]

And by the way... "Oh gee, we didn't know they were the old versions" is NOT an excuse! It is YOUR responsibility to send the buyer the PRODUCT ORDERED, (YES! The one you described in such vivid and tantalizing detail on your website!) not a similar but older model. (hoping they won't notice the difference!) So sellers, please remember: Ineptitude is pretty much equal to dishonesty... Because the end result is the same.

NOTE TO OTHER MEMBERS: Has this happened to you? Please let us know. But if you respond, please refrain from naming individual suppliers in this thread. There's time for that later if they don't change their ways.

Oh well tl;dr I want my money back

 

[hellcatrydr]

BTW, Aren't you a little young for vapin'?

I'm a little seepy now. Time to check out.

PS... No Refunds.

My doctor says I have a malformed public duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre and that I am therefore excused from saving universes.

 

[mwa102464]

Quote from aprioristic
"Yeah ....ing right. I advise you all to run, far far away from anyone selling these things."[/QUOTE]


PPPfffftttt ya right OK, Issac sells a great product and is a good friend, but to run from anyone selling the CE2 or call them a bad supplier for trying to bring new innovative product to the vaping community,, now that's just uncalled for, you really should take that one back. In fact, it's the innovative people within this community that make it what it is today.!!!

 

[hairball]

I agree with the OP. If a vendor is selling something and advertising it a certain way, then that is what should be sold. However, how would the vendor know what it really is? I mean, if he/she is being lied to by the manufacturer? We all know that RS has a horrible habit of doing this kind of business.

Sorry if that didn't make sense..I'm on tylenol 3 so things aren't so clear to type. Bottom line, the manufacturer is lying to the vendor, the vendor believes it so it's passed onto us. Only we can reverse the crap rolling flow so that it goes back to the manufacturer (or at least I hope it does).

 

[hairball]

I'm changing back to filler carto's. I have plenty of ce2's to last me a long time but I'm tired of the BS. For once, you would think that RS would get it "right". I found a new love for Boge, Nhaler, and Ikenvape's cartomizers and until RS gets their heads pulled out, I'm sticking with these. Nuf said.

 

[firhill]

PPPfffftttt ya right OK, Issac sells a great product and is a good friend

Better watch out, he considered me a good friend too... 'til I spelled his name wrong.

I'm a little seepy now. Time to check out.

Me too, I'm off to find some depends.

Can I join this class action suit?

Maybe these guys aren't so bad but I had a horrible experience with GotVapes and the first run of Clearomizers. Luckily I tried Ikenvape after this debacle and never looked back.My next order??? Yeah ....ing right. I advise you all to run, far far away from anyone selling these things.

You should probably post your likes and dislikes of vendors in the review forum.

No need to flame me here. And please stop trying to twist my meaning.
You have made your position clear: You support unethical sellers. I only support ethical sellers. Calm down. Find something to do. Maybe you have some old clearos to ship? yes?

It is what it is.
It's a downer but sometimes you just have to chalk it up as a learning experience and take the "once bitten, twice shy" approach.

IMO....cartomisers sucked when they first hit the market. Two years removed, they still suck.

 

[hellcatrydr]

UPDATE:
It's a good news/bad news story.

One of the 2 sellers has made it right! (Turns out they'd been out of town for 2 weeks on urgent family business.) They asked me for a photo of the wicks because they had a number of emails about this and had not been on the forum for 2 weeks so they really had no idea. (This was no problem since I'd already cut the metal tubes off for Map Tanks.) I sent the pic and they were understandably sad and felt betrayed by Royal Smoker.

The WOW factor...
But the first thing she said was: "Oh my gosh! I need to send emails to everybody we sold those things to."!!! Before I had fully recovered from having my faith in mankind restored, she went on: "I'm going to pull a little sample out of my 3 ohm batches and open them... I want to SEE what I got from them!!! (RS)" Yeah. Her very first thoughts were about her customers.
She offered to refund now or send the right ones later if she found any. I couldn't do it. She pressed a little but... she had treated me honestly and because I'm good with the old style too. I'll use em. She pulled down the New Revision site page & put back the Old Rev page with a note saying 'We'll have the New Rev models back up soon. Will update'. My respect for her, and trust in her word will take me back there frequently in the future.


The OTHER wow factor...
GotVapes is the other vendor. (This is a Registered Seller here on ECF!) Over the last 5 days this "company" has done everything humanly possible to stonewall and sandbag me. Dan may or may not even answer an email, and never the same day: Heming & hawing and delaying and finally, after 5 days, He tells me: No Refund - No Replacement until after I return em back to him in New Condition! (with all 5 out of the wrappers and 2 cut open, this will be difficult. Not to mention I'm not in a mood to trot down to the post office to save GotVape Dan $12 anyway!) Plainly, Dan was telling me 'I'm keepin' your money. Tough!
REMEMBER, Even through all of this, THEY WERE STILL DOING IT!!! Still cheating people with the false site ad! So the 'Oh gee, we just found out' excuse is off the table.
So yesterday, I sent him a link to this OPEN LETTER thread and told him the unnamed dishonest seller is his company: GotVapes. Last night, this notation (also false) appeared on his 3.2 page:
We have found that some in this particular ohm (3.0-3.2 510 XL Black) may have the old style wick in them, they are still good but we want to let you know this upfront...... No. Not some, ALL. Not may, DO. And I guess "upfront" is GotVapesese for 'We took advantage of you for 2 straight weeks, but then we got caught. so we're dropping a little note of semi-truth in this beautiful but untruthful site page.'
Judge for yourself, HERE

GotVapes has been knowingly defrauding ECF members with their Bait & Switch sell/ship tactics for 2 weeks (re 3.2 blk fluxomizers.) BECAUSE THEY COULD! The moral here is, unethical sellers exert unfair profit leverage that is unhealthy all of us and if tolerated, will flourish, with negative effects to the vast majority of sellers who are honest. We are NOT UNregulated. We are SELF regulated.

Next week, I will be forced to cancel the entire charge ($55 +/-) and file complaints to Visa and ECF.

Thanks to all.
Check out time.
...........................................................
Here's a few as yet unanswered questions off GotVapes' ECF page. I feel bad for these guys. (Colored & shortened, nothing added.)

The Black XL listed as a CE-2 X (3.0-3.2) is what I ordered, and it appears to be identical to the standard rev4's. I cut the first one open (for modding), and sure enough it has the dual thin looped wicks in it.
The Black CE-2 X is supposed to be the same style as the new clearomizers, correct? I'm not sure if I should open any more in the box or not. I know another well known site was getting mixed shipments, where some boxes had some of the new version, and some of the rev4 in the same box (for non-clearos).
Has anyone received Black CE-2's in the new style?
I'm kind of disappointed, considering I paid more than another site sells rev 4's for, specifically to try the new version. Should I cut more of them, to see if the whole box is rev4? I double checked the receipt, and it definitely states that it should be a CE2-X, and the post here seems to list the black ones in with the clearos, as being the new style.I checked the PRD and EXP codes on the side, and they're identical to rev4's, from another non-fluxomizer branded company

...would love to try the 2.6ohm, but there was a mix up & I was sent the old ones

Did anyone answer your question? I like to know too.

Not yet, I'm afraid.

 

[daisyd]

Madvapes does not list any CE-2 as CE-2 X, or in the 3.0-3.2 ohm range. They only say R4 on the black ones. The clearos do not list a revision at all. If that's what it said when you ordered it, it would seem that they did do as you asked and changed their site so as not to make false claims. What is your beef with them?

 

[Enigma32]

Bottom line = We all could buy from China for cheaper pricing, but we let the vendors do it and they make a profit off of the customer, that's business, but when a problem like this arises we the customers shouldn't have to pay for it, that's why where buying from our US vendors and giving them our business. They in return need to take care of us and sell us what is advertised and what we think we are purchasing or we wont continue giving them out business so they lose in the end, just like the OP's main point was in his thread I believe, honest business practices good pricing & great CS keep customers.!

See, thats the whole problem guys. Can't have all of it. People want cheap prices, steep discounts, a full fledged call center, free shipping, highest quality... hey wait a minute thats $100 worth of product and service you're paying $50 for, where is the rest coming from?

Most vendors are small, but people seem to think they're sitting on multibillion dollar bank accounts just because theyre a business.

Cut the guys a break, its not their fault, its the fault of the manufacturer. royal smoker being the sole manufacturer, got very cocky about everything and don't care about their buyers. China being china, the CE2 has now been copied, and you'll start seeing supply on the market from better factories soon.

 

[hellcatrydr]

Madvapes does not list any CE-2 as CE-2 X, or in the 3.0-3.2 ohm range. They only say R4 on the black ones. The clearos do not list a revision at all. If that's what it said when you ordered it, it would seem that they did do as you asked and changed their site so as not to make false claims. What is your beef with them?

Typo. Meant GotVapes. No idea how I wrote MadVapes in that 1 place. Must be seepy. I fixed it. My bad. Thank you for pointing it out.

 

[dannoman]

Reluctant to be pulled into the morass, would you like to post our emails that were sent back and forth that tell the complete story without paraphrasing?

There is no villainry goign on here. You wrote to us stating the product, a box of FLüXomizer CE2-X Black XL 3.0-3.2 ohm cartomizers were in fact the older style wicks. I responded by apologizing and explaining that we did not send older style wicks to you on purpose - that these were not in a clear tube and we obviously could not verify that they were thinner wicked FLüXomizers. I then offered to you to send them back, unused (meaning you hadn't vaped with them) and we would refund you the purchase price plus any shipping costs you might incur.

You then sent back another email stating we were 'dishonest', 'trying to pull a fast one', among other similarly stated accusations. I then wrote back to you:

"Steve - we had some 3.0-3.2's in XL Black that seem to have some of the old
wick in them. These are the only ones that were reported back to us. Of
course we could not verify they were the older wick as they are in a closed,
non-clear cartomizer. At this point we can refund you for these but we would
need to have the other ones returned, we will pay/credit you for the
shipping cost and the product once these are received back. Please make a
short note in the return that you want a refund so that Chris can tell me
when you have sent them back. You can send back to

Chris Olic - GotVapes.com
1263 152nd Street
Whitestone, NY 11357


thanks,
Daniel"

As I stated in a response to you in our own forum, I am not sure what else you would have wanted us to do.

I just wanted to post this to set the record straight on this and again, if you wish, we can post the complete record of emails that went back and forth in a chronological fashion.

I think it is also imortant not to take lightly calling a vendor 'unethical' and cast other disperions as you have done, against any vendor on ECF. All of us work very hard and, as one poster stated, none of us are Fortune 500 companies or even approach being recognized as a large unfeeling corporate entity. We are all fairly small 'mom and pop' operations who are vapers ourselves and work with relatively thin profit margins. Each order we make that comes from China's mainland is fraught with stress as we never know when the FDA and one of its policing agencies such as US Customs is going to seize our shipments and quite possibly cause enough serious financial harm as to even, possibly, cause anyone of us to shut down. So again I say, don't so cavalierly or lightly accuse us or any ECF vendor of beign 'unethical' in a given emotional moment.

Again just wanted to set the record straight on this. I am very busy as witnessed by the late hour of this post and will not be responding in this thread other than this post.

UPDATE:
It's a good news/bad news story.

One of the 2 sellers has made it right! (Turns out they'd been out of town for 2 weeks on urgent family business.) They asked me for a photo of the wicks because they had a number of emails about this and had not been on the forum for 2 weeks so they really had no idea. (This was no problem since I'd already cut the metal tubes off for Map Tanks.) I sent the pic and they were understandably sad and felt betrayed by Royal Smoker.

The WOW factor...
But the first thing she said was: "Oh my gosh! I need to send emails to everybody we sold those things to."!!! Before I had fully recovered from having my faith in mankind restored, she went on: "I'm going to pull a little sample out of my 3 ohm batches and open them... I want to SEE what I got from them!!! (RS)" Yeah. Her very first thoughts were about her customers.
She offered to refund now or send the right ones later if she found any. I couldn't do it. She pressed a little but... she had treated me honestly and because I'm good with the old style too. I'll use em. She pulled down the New Revision site page & put back the Old Rev page with a note saying 'We'll have the New Rev models back up soon. Will update'. My respect for her, and trust in her word will take me back there frequently in the future.


The OTHER wow factor...
GotVapes is the other vendor. (This is a Registered Seller here on ECF!) Over the last 5 days this "company" has done everything humanly possible to stonewall and sandbag me. Dan may or may not even answer an email, and never the same day: Heming & hawing and delaying and finally, after 5 days, He tells me: No Refund - No Replacement until after I return em back to him in New Condition! (with all 5 out of the wrappers and 2 cut open, this will be difficult. Not to mention I'm not in a mood to trot down to the post office to save GotVape Dan $12 anyway!) Plainly, Dan was telling me 'I'm keepin' your money. Tough!
REMEMBER, Even through all of this, THEY WERE STILL DOING IT!!! Still cheating people with the false site ad! So the 'Oh gee, we just found out' excuse is off the table.
So yesterday, I sent him a link to this OPEN LETTER thread and told him the unnamed dishonest seller is his company: GotVapes. Last night, this notation (also false) appeared on his 3.2 page:
We have found that some in this particular ohm (3.0-3.2 510 XL Black) may have the old style wick in them, they are still good but we want to let you know this upfront...... No. Not some, ALL. Not may, DO. And I guess "upfront" is GotVapesese for 'We took advantage of you for 2 straight weeks, but then we got caught. so we're dropping a little note of semi-truth in this beautiful but untruthful site page.'
Judge for yourself, HERE

GotVapes has been knowingly defrauding ECF members with their Bait & Switch sell/ship tactics for 2 weeks (re 3.2 blk fluxomizers.) BECAUSE THEY COULD! The moral here is, unethical sellers exert unfair profit leverage that is unhealthy all of us and if tolerated, will flourish, with negative effects to the vast majority of sellers who are honest. We are NOT UNregulated. We are SELF regulated.

Next week, I will be forced to cancel the entire charge ($55 +/-) and file complaints to Visa and ECF.

Thanks to all.
Check out time.
...........................................................
Here's a few as yet unanswered questions off GotVapes' ECF page. I feel bad for these guys. (Colored & shortened, nothing added.)

 

[simply me]

Always nice to hear the other side of the story.

 

[simply me]

Always nice to hear the other side of the story.

 

[Credo]

Holy smoke...these are cheap consumable goods from a fledgleing industry. It's good to push for more/better QC and to hold folks to standards and make them accoutable, BUT at the same time consider that pushing too hard will ultimately drive prices much higher.

I've seen no 'trickery' at any of these sites. They're trying to stay on the cutting edge, and spending a good deal of their own time and money to communicate with manufactuers all over the world in order deliver better products to their coustomers.

Interestingly enough, this is still a small enough industry that these vendors often get to know us all on a first name basis. Be reasonable, and they'll bend over backwards to keep you happy. Go overboard, and they'll suffer in ways that will trickle down to everyone that enjoys the products they try to provide for us.

So in short...you can push for more QC, stiffer return policies, and reem every little pv related imperfection attempting to force everyone to get it perfect the first time...and that'll ultimately drive up costs. Or, you can cooperate with the current system and occasionally get a dud, or be dissapointed at times, waste a few pennys when this happens. Either way...it's going to cost time and money. In my experience...it's the former that kills fledgeling industries faster than anything else. So...go ahead and push...just be aware that it could drive up costs for everyone sooner rather than later.

Relax a little

 

[BAZYRKYR]

Bravo...Awesome "Rant"...I TOTALLY agree! Have you seen my thread about the counterfit eGo & eGo-T. There are about 6 fairly large manufacturers just pumping them out in volume and the biggest counterfiter is Joye's biggest competitor.....Sailebao(SLB). All of the retailers know this and they also know that Totally Wicked...TECC...Janty....and Ovale have an EXCLUSIVITY AGREEMENT with Joye Technology and yet 95% of the retailer advertise that they carry the "Joye eGo & *NEW* eGo-T". The deciete is uncalled for...we all should boycott the offenders for literally stealing from us. Do they really think that this sort of behavior is OK and that the vaping community will tolerate it just because they have the newest product out and they slap a silly tradename on the side of it? They have GOT to have their head in the clouds (of vapor).

Sent using my Samsung Epic 4G via Tapatalk

 

[Credo]

P.S.
After a few months of PV use, I've purchased stuff from many vendors, including gotvapes.com
I've had some bad stuff from nearly all of them...all from the manufacturer...not the stores.
They ALL bent over backwards to take care of me and make it right.

Thing is, most of this stuff that sometimes is a dud, is so cheap...it cost less to write off the one bad one, use the rest, and move on than to try to ship it back. I just send them pictures and testimony that they can use to work with their supply sources, and they almost always offer a replacement, discount, or some other sample product on my next order as compensation.

I've had very good service with GotVapes.

 

[Credo]

Bazyrkr,

I'm confused. Are you suggesting we not tolerate any rebranding like "Fluxomizer", or are you saying that some other company is breeching patents, counterfitting/copying the Royal Smoker CE2, and selling them as 'Fluxomizers'?

So long as the patent holder is getting his cut and various franchise/brand name standards are met...does it matter where it is manufactured what what brand it is sold under?

If someone is infrenging patents and counterfitting, then I fully agree. They need to pay the fees or come up with their own designs.

I personally have no problem with 'legitimate' rebranding.