Announcement at my son's middle school

[englishmick]

I think there is also another facet to this agenda. Obviously, they want to discourage the kids from using vaping products. Sure, fine, they're lying about it, most of us are in agreement here. But they are also trying to influence the kids' perception of a parent who uses these products. If they can get a kid to feel morally superior and more intelligent than their parent, then they have successfully created a rift in the family unit. Once they have done this, the kid then begins to doubt the authority of the parent and trust more in their "educators", who are nothing more than government employees. Honestly come on folks, who is the rightful authority, and ultimately cares more for the best interest of the child-the parent, or the government? I'm almost afraid of what some people will answer. This isn't just about vaping, either.

Since the 60's most kids have thought they knew better than their parents, and their teachers. Probably before that as well but I wasn't around so I don't know for sure.

Maybe the programming details have changed but it was always there. Not better or worse than it was before. They fed me plenty of bull when I was a kid. They tried to convince me that an angry wizard in the sky was watching my every move, and various really nice things would turn me into a drooling zombie. Now they want to stop kids using Juuls by telling them Juuls are Really Bad. Yeah, that's going work for sure.

I've met plenty of parents who have what I see as awful ideas on raising kids. And they would like to see their own theories taught in schools.

Fortunately neither the parents nor the teachers will have much success. Learning to filter out all the ideologies and other nonsense that are thrown at you is part of growing up. From what I've seen of current 20 somethings they have a better understanding of how the world works than the average oldie with their set in stone theories. Just my opinion.

 

[scott58]

Anything based on a lie is still a lie.

 

[ScottP]

A "pop quiz on health" was conducted over the loudspeaker at my son's school yesterday, and they posed the question:

"Which is worse: smoking or vaping?"

The correct answer they gave was "vaping". I have had many conversations with my son about this including showing him the recent video from PHE, so he knows the truth. But I think it's a bit of shock to him that he is getting such contradictory information from the authority figures in his life.

It irritates me beyond words that these lies are being so loudly and broadly distributed not only to the general public, but also directly to our kids! End rant.

Honestly, I would have gone to the school, showed the principal all the evidence to the contrary and demanded he retract what he said. If he refused, then right there, still in his office, I would call a local news station and ask if they wanted a scoop on a principal that wanted middle school kids to smoke. Something tells me he would ask you to hang up so you could "work something out".

 

[Brewdawg1181]

From what I've seen of current 20 somethings they have a better understanding of how the world works than the average oldie with their set in stone theories. Just my opinion.

I only wish I could agree with you. I have 2 twenty something kids, and they are pretty good, and getting better. But for the last 37 years, I've also employed primarily 20-30 somethings. I know every generation rues the mindset of the subsequent one, but it's really pretty amazing these days. There's simply no comparison to years past, and the last 6-8 years, the decline has accelerated. This is not just my perception- I've been forced to make fundamental and costly changes to the way we operate our business.

These are employees that instruct classes for us remotely. For decades, they demonstrated "ownership" of their accounts. They handled not only the instruction, but relationship building, were dedicated to growing their base (and income), and prompt communication with the corporate office. Four years ago, it became apparent that I had to hire a dedicated Customer Care representative to travel to their accounts, deliver marketing materials (most instructors can no longer be trusted to do this on a timely basis), and keep the accounts happy. Most now expect us to simply assign them to full, growing classes.

I can no longer trust the majority of instructors to handle the critical task of gathering info on customer schedules - this is now done by my corporate office staff. Our training system has been revamped. The percentage of instructors that go through paid 2 month training that simply bail without proper notice has risen dramatically, so I have to hire and train more than I actually need to keep the pipeline full. The idea of honoring a commitment to their classes of children through the school year term - a thing of the past.

The hiring process itself is downright depressing - so few of them treat it as important, that we end up being forced to hire those that would have been summarily rejected just a few years ago. The idea of receiving complete, well structured resumes with cover letters customized to the position, and thoughtful follow-up communication is just antiquated. My franchisees in 3 southern states report the same issues, and it's going to be the primary focus of our upcoming semi-annual company meeting.

But then, to be fair, your statement was actually about them understanding how the world works. So maybe this is partially true- selfish entitlement seems to be how the world is working, and they know they can get away with it. But a true understanding of the world? The majority now get their news passively from social media platforms, which by nature are actively customized to be echo chambers of the people they interact with and issues they've shown an interest in. So that understanding will, of course, be limited.

Sorry, all, for the rant! Guess i just had to get that out.

 

[stols001]

Yes, I'm super sorry but this generation of young adults are DENSE. Like, crazy dense. You really have to handhold them.

I mean-- this medical assistant, that is a COLLEGE degree. She performs PROCEDURES. If she can't pair a clipboard a form and a pen correctly, what will happen when she irrigates some kid's EAR.

I will say it's not ALL of them. But a lot of them or not out of state or older, or just naturally smart? I am going to guess 70% of hires are, not DUMB exactly, they've just never been forced to confront reality.

When all that whining and crying and safe spaces stuff was going on, I gave my kid a snowflake test and asked him if he wanted one, and he was like, "Nah, Mom, that sounds pretty worthless to me, if you want to do me a favor, stock me up a bunker but I really think I'm fine."

He is one of the 30% I guess, since his first real job is begging him to train to be a manager, quite a bit. LOL. Desperate times, means the non foggy ones should excel. Etc.

ANna

 

[englishmick]

I only wish I could agree with you. I have 2 twenty something kids, and they are pretty good, and getting better. But for the last 37 years, I've also employed primarily 20-30 somethings. I know every generation rues the mindset of the subsequent one, but it's really pretty amazing these days. There's simply no comparison to years past, and the last 6-8 years, the decline has accelerated. This is not just my perception- I've been forced to make fundamental and costly changes to the way we operate our business.

These are employees that instruct classes for us remotely. For decades, they demonstrated "ownership" of their accounts. They handled not only the instruction, but relationship building, were dedicated to growing their base (and income), and prompt communication with the corporate office. Four years ago, it became apparent that I had to hire a dedicated Customer Care representative to travel to their accounts, deliver marketing materials (most instructors can no longer be trusted to do this on a timely basis), and keep the accounts happy. Most now expect us to simply assign them to full, growing classes.

I can no longer trust the majority of instructors to handle the critical task of gathering info on customer schedules - this is now done by my corporate office staff. Our training system has been revamped. The percentage of instructors that go through paid 2 month training that simply bail without proper notice has risen dramatically, so I have to hire and train more than I actually need to keep the pipeline full. The idea of honoring a commitment to their classes of children through the school year term - a thing of the past.

The hiring process itself is downright depressing - so few of them treat it as important, that we end up being forced to hire those that would have been summarily rejected just a few years ago. The idea of receiving complete, well structured resumes with cover letters customized to the position, and thoughtful follow-up communication is just antiquated. My franchisees in 3 southern states report the same issues, and it's going to be the primary focus of our upcoming semi-annual company meeting.

But then, to be fair, your statement was actually about them understanding how the world works. So maybe this is partially true- selfish entitlement seems to be how the world is working, and they know they can get away with it. But a true understanding of the world? The majority now get their news passively from social media platforms, which by nature are actively customized to be echo chambers of the people they interact with and issues they've shown an interest in. So that understanding will, of course, be limited.

Sorry, all, for the rant! Guess i just had to get that out.

That's certainly another side of the picture. I think you hit on some good points regarding why they are the way they are. Why care or make the effort in a world like the one we've created for them. Gig economy. Go to college and be saddled with debt you can never make enough money to pay off. Work your .... off for steadily declining pay. Robots coming along to take the jobs. Watch all the goodies move inexorably up to the top of the tree. The country run by and for the rich. A bit like it was for my grandparents generation back home, the titled elite running the country and half the world for their own benefit.

And on top of all that they have schools throwing a rule book at them of all things they shouldn't do because it's bad for them.

Just hope I'm gone before the revolution starts.

 

[BrotherBob]

A "pop quiz on health" was conducted over the loudspeaker at my son's school yesterday, and they posed the question:

"Which is worse: smoking or vaping?"

The correct answer they gave was "vaping". I have had many conversations with my son about this including showing him the recent video from PHE, so he knows the truth. But I think it's a bit of shock to him that he is getting such contradictory information from the authority figures in his life.

It irritates me beyond words that these lies are being so loudly and broadly distributed not only to the general public, but also directly to our kids! End rant.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?
re:
FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb wrote,

“it’s the other chemical compounds in tobacco, and in the smoke created by setting tobacco on fire, that directly and primarily cause the illness and death, not the nicotine.”

Dr. Gottlieb further goes on to say,
“even with unanswered questions about benefits and risks, there are now different technologies to deliver nicotine, for those who need it, that doesn’t bring with it the deadly consequences of burning tobacco and inhaling the resulting smoke.”

Dr. Gottlieb says the FDA is,
“looking at ways to reduce nicotine levels in cigarettes so that they are minimally or non-addictive, while not altering the nicotine content of noncombustible products such as e-cigarettes, is a cornerstone of our new and more comprehensive approach to effective tobacco regulation.”
re: Protecting American Families: Comprehensive Approach to Nicotine and Tobacco
American Cancer Society Position Statement on Electronic Cigarettes
E-cigs 'definitely' safer than smoking
Vaping is the reason for massive decline in UK smoking
Government legalises e-cigarettes in effort to make New Zealand smokefree by 2025
Australian and New Zealand psychiatrists endorse vaping
http://blog.mtbakervapor.com/new-cdc-study/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email

 

[suprtrkr]

(Sigh)

The End Is Nigh.

Think I'll paint me up a sandwich board and let my hair grow.

 

[Brewdawg1181]

That's certainly another side of the picture. I think you hit on some good points regarding why they are the way they are. Why care or make the effort in a world like the one we've created for them. Gig economy. Go to college and be saddled with debt you can never make enough money to pay off. Work your .... off for steadily declining pay. Robots coming along to take the jobs. Watch all the goodies move inexorably up to the top of the tree. The country run by and for the rich. A bit like it was for my grandparents generation back home, the titled elite running the country and half the world for their own benefit.

And on top of all that they have schools throwing a rule book at them of all things they shouldn't do because it's bad for them.

Just hope I'm gone before the revolution starts.

You seem like one of the good guys here, Mick - so I hate to disagree again, but I kinda do. Focusing on those negatives can create self-fulfilling prophecies. My 27 year old, though (like me) loves to have his fun, has taken work seriously. Had a great job, was offered an even better one by a larger competitor, and took it. Didn't realize he'd signed a non-compete and the previous company got him fired 2 days after he closed on his first house with his new wife. Surprisingly, he never complained once or asked a single penny of me - he just got an unglamorous job selling roofing replacement door-to-door evenings and weekends to pay the bills, and do what he needed to do for his family (I'd never been more proud!). 2 years later, he's got an even better job, multiple promotions, and got a huge raise yesterday. His friends that are work-serious, like him, are all doing very well. The others, just kind of gliding along, wondering why things aren't turning out better for them.

It' ain't the world we grew up in, but success can still be had for those that want it. In fact, the argument could be made (see my previous post ), that competition is weaker than ever!

 

[englishmick]

You seem like one of the good guys here, Mick - so I hate to disagree again, but I kinda do. Focusing on those negatives can create self-fulfilling prophecies. My 27 year old, though (like me) loves to have his fun, has taken work seriously. Had a great job, was offered an even better one by a larger competitor, and took it. Didn't realize he'd signed a non-compete and the previous company got him fired 2 days after he closed on his first house with his new wife. Surprisingly, he never complained once or asked a single penny of me - he just got an unglamorous job selling roofing replacement door-to-door evenings and weekends to pay the bills, and do what he needed to do for his family (I'd never been more proud!). 2 years later, he's got an even better job, multiple promotions, and got a huge raise yesterday. His friends that are work-serious, like him, are all doing very well. The others, just kind of gliding along, wondering why things aren't turning out better for them.

It' ain't the world we grew up in, but success can still be had for those that want it. In fact, the argument could be made (see my previous post ), that competition is weaker than ever!

My granddaughter just finished college and she's going to be a teacher. She will do OK. Her brother joined the Marines. The Gates and Zucks will still fly high no matter what. My guess is that the percentage of kids who fight their way through to the dream is a lot smaller. There's a lot less space up there. And the % of kids who move out of their parents economic group is rapidly shrinking. That isn't entirely or mainly because kids are different these days. Lazy and unambitious are results not causes. The structure has changed. Even the big dogs at Davos the other day were saying the same thing, unless we do something about income inequality and loss of economic mobility first world economies are on the way downhill.

Anyway, that's what I think. Probably should let this one go before the mods sneak up behind us with their hammer.

 

[CMD-Ky]

...

It' ain't the world we grew up in, but success can still be had for those that want it. In fact, the argument could be made (see my previous post ), that competition is weaker than ever!

Agree wholeheartedly.

 

[Bruce C]

There were too many comments I wanted to quote and reply to, so I'll shrink it down to a couple of comments. And please don't take offense at what I say it's meant as constructive criticism only.

A couple of people in here need typing/English syntax/punctuation skills. The walls of text that were nearly unreadable gave me a headache translating, lol.

To dcdozer, it's good your son realized the BS that was being thrown at him, however he's not just getting it from school. Our former friend "The Truth" has begun spouting the same message at kids and young adults via television. I cringe every time those muppets drown out that "vaping is safer than smoking" in their latest tv campaign. Almost every commercial break on Adult Swim contains this advert.

Millennials in general that I encounter are pretty close to the 70% entitled "neck-beards" mentioned in other posts.

I too am awaiting the next revolution mentioned, but just wish my body was ready for it at nearly 65yo and an amputated leg. It's coming soon I am almost positive of it.

And yes even a well meant lie is still a lie. and in this case a dangerous one for the health of our kids.

Once again at dcdozer I hope we hear from you as to the response from your son's school on this misuse of power.

 

[jamie]

Yes, from what I see on Siegel's blog does sound like it's the campaign Bruce mentions. It's Siegel's most recent entry also.
The Rest of the Story: Tobacco and Alcohol News Analysis and Commentary: "Truth" Campaign to Kids: Better to Smoke 19 Cigarettes than to Vape One Juul Pod

Might not be a bad idea for the OP to shoot Siegel an email about the school incident. I don't know if there is way to contact through the blogger platform, but I know he can be contacted via his prof address. He'd seemed appreciative when I'd contacted him a few years ago about an incident of similar interest.

Michael Siegel | SPH | Boston University

 

[Mordacai]

Extract from article.

One respiratory therapist warned that because a single Juul pod contains as much nicotine as a pack of cigarettes, a youth who vapes is in danger of dying from nicotine poisoning.

Now how many ex smokers here could go through a pack or more a day?

 

[Rossum]

Now how many ex smokers here could go through a pack or more a day?

A better question would be: How many ex-smokers here didn't go through at least a pack a day?

The notion that someone is going to die from nic poisoning via vaping is absurd. Just as with smoking, they'll get nic-sick long before there's and danger, and it's unpleasant enough to make 'em stop.

 

[Mordacai]

Rossum, that's what I implied.

The statement doesn't add up, because supposedly a Juul has the same amount of Nicotine as a 19 cigarettes (no it doesn't, approx 3). And a Juul supposedly could cause Nicotine poisoning, yet a pack or more of cigarettes would not.

It's biased science at its worst, I'd like to know where the money came from which promoted this drivel. Bet it would have something to do with either big Tobacco, big pharma or healthcare.