Another B&M rant

[Rocketpunk]

Sub ohming and rebuildables were nigh unheard of a little over a year and a half ago. While vaping is still growing, dripping meant a 510 atomizer. There will always be room to grow but I'll be darned if hotrodder young'uns who hijacked the scene will tell me they're the ones who know what's up.

People over a year ago didn't need sub-ohming to get them off cigarettes. An ego and a CE4 was all it took for me and countless others.

You've all reduced it to numbers, amp limits, wire gauges, and how big a cloud you can blow. It's infected every aspect of vaping and has altered ECF to something almost unrecognizable as a vaping community.

Yes. Rebuildables do help the industry -- a tad -- with ingenuity and innovations. But those who only care about the tightest coil design, the biggest cloud, who has what latest gear... yes, it is most definitely a hobby. I mean, mech mods, authentics, clones. Who honestly gives a blank? So you own or make a metal tube. A metal tube. Elaborate on that, please, and explain how it makes a difference? Copper contacts? Buttery threads? A clean switch? Brass?

When did this go from quitting smoking to be the defining aspect of ECF?

Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk

 

[crackizzle]

Really? I said better battery life, and possibly lower amp draw. If I'm running a .25 coil build with 2.2 volts through it vs a .81 ohm coil with 8 volts through it I'm drawing similar amp loads (much higher watts on the .81 build) but slightly lower amps on the lower resistance. Actually read what was there. The solid assertion was that battery life would improve at lower voltage, which it does. If I was to last all day on two batterys in my Sigelei I can't go over 45 watts and I have to use a .25-.35 coil. That is the only set up that I have found that produces the cloud and throat hit that I want that lasts for true all day (12+ hours) battery life. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough, but that type of condescension is what I was talking about in my last post. I'm young and male and chase clouds, obviously I can't do math. Build for what you want. If you want a low, voltage low (10a or lower) current built it almost needs to be sub ohm if you want any type of true RDA performance.

 

[lm7nyne]

When I got my 50w box the guy at the store absolutely refused to sale me any kind of rba/RDA simply because I am new and had no idea what I was doing. I was mad at first but quickly figured out (thanks to this forum) that he was doing me a favor. The lady at their "tasting bar" also tried steering me away from any juice with tobacco flavor because it would make it harder to quit.

 

[WattWick]

Also... Hate to double post, but what's wrong with vaping to vape... I definitely cloud chase, but not always, I was a 3 pack a day smoker. I also had a hookah and a pipe, I enjoyed the feeling of smoking and of lung hits. The attitude that it is wrong to vape to the extreme is ridiculous. I smoked to the extreme when I did smoke, and now my all day vape is a 0.2 28 gauge quad coil at 55 watts on my Sigelei. It's not wrong, just different. This is still the best forum for vaping on the internet, but I almost feel like an outsider, hated by all the "real" vapers here.

Can't we accept that different people want different things out of vaping? My girlfriend only likes about 6 watts of power, and that's how her set up works. She also was only ever a cigarette smoker, and hated my hookah. Just like there are choices for tobacco users there are choices for vapers and that's a good thing.

I think the frustration is more about cloud chasing coolkids becoming the face of vaping. It's just not an image many of us want to be related to in any way. As always, it's not so much what people do; it's about how they go about doing it.

 

[Rossum]

Yes. Rebuildables do help the industry -- a tad -- with ingenuity and innovations. [...] When did this go from quitting smoking to be the defining aspect of ECF?

Some of us didn't get into rebuildables blow bigger clouds. I got into rebuildables to be confident that I could continue to vape (and thus continue to stay smoke-free) no matter what the goobermint does.

 

[Rocketpunk]

WattWick and Rossum speak truth and filled in the other aspects I forgot to mention or include.

Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk

 

[WattWick]

This exactly. I went to Sears roughly 2 years ago and bought a chainsaw. Nobody explained the safety aspects, nobody asked my experience level with chainsaws, etc. As an adult consumer, the responsibility is on me....as it should be.

There is a considerable difference. It is understood that chainsaws are extremely dangerous. Not so much with batteries.

Shops could easily handle it in a nice, polite way by i.e asking "Are you familiar with rebuildable atties and battery safety, or do you want me to walk you through it?"

 

[AndriaD]

Really? I said better battery life, and possibly lower amp draw. If I'm running a .25 coil build with 2.2 volts through it vs a .81 ohm coil with 8 volts through it I'm drawing similar amp loads (much higher watts on the .81 build) but slightly lower amps on the lower resistance. Actually read what was there. The solid assertion was that battery life would improve at lower voltage, which it does. If I was to last all day on two batterys in my Sigelei I can't go over 45 watts and I have to use a .25-.35 coil. That is the only set up that I have found that produces the cloud and throat hit that I want that lasts for true all day (12+ hours) battery life. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough, but that type of condescension is what I was talking about in my last post. I'm young and male and chase clouds, obviously I can't do math. Build for what you want. If you want a low, voltage low (10a or lower) current built it almost needs to be sub ohm if you want any type of true RDA performance.

I did the math (well actually I let steam-engine.org do the math!) on the 2 builds you mention at the top, and you're right, the .81 draws more amps. But when I see either 19.36w or 79.01w, I can't figure out why anyone would want that anyway, *especially* the latter!

On my kayfuns, I use a 1.8Ω coil, and I set my mod for about 8-10 watts, and it's a great vape, great throat hit and flavor.

My cartotank, I use a 3.xΩ single-coil carto, and it's on a Vamo v2 set for 9.5w-10.5w -- and with that resistance and that setting, it's a great vape, great throat hit and flavor, and an 18650 2250mAh (regular ol Efest 10A) lasts *all day long*.

I can't think of a single reason to run either of those in any other way, although if my asthma is causing me any problems, I sometimes decrease the power. So the whole concept of the kind of massive wattage generated by the examples you gave is like a foreign language to me; I just scratch my head, completely uncomprehending.

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

When I got my 50w box the guy at the store absolutely refused to sale me any kind of rba/RDA simply because I am new and had no idea what I was doing. I was mad at first but quickly figured out (thanks to this forum) that he was doing me a favor. The lady at their "tasting bar" also tried steering me away from any juice with tobacco flavor because it would make it harder to quit.

Hmm, I would have told that lady to mind her own; I *required* a flavor that was very similar to the cigarettes I smoked, or I could not have done it at all. Now I really don't even like it much, but at the time, it was what was necessary to make the transition.

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

Some of us didn't get into rebuildables blow bigger clouds. I got into rebuildables to be confident that I could continue to vape (and thus continue to stay smoke-free) no matter what the goobermint does.

That's one of the major reasons I did, too; also because it's cheaper than endless replacement coils, and I never had much luck with the T3S or Mini PT II, they were constantly doing one weird thing or another; someone said a kayfun was a terrific vape and easy to maintain, not much fiddling, and that was right on the money -- they're both the best-vaping and easiest tanks I've tried so far. The cartotank is easier, but I think I'd give the kayfun the edge on vape quality -- generally I try to use light delicate flavors in the kayfun, and strong in-your-face flavors in the cartotank, and that works pretty well.

Andria

 

[Topher the Geek]

Hmm, I would have told that lady to mind her own; I *required* a flavor that was very similar to the cigarettes I smoked, or I could not have done it at all. Now I really don't even like it much, but at the time, it was what was necessary to make the transition.

Andria

My first two e-liquids were 555 and RY4 clones. They were great, and gave me great luck quitting!

 

[bluecat]

Why didn't your friend ask you for advice?

Many people vape that high. Personally I don't but I won't tell people they shouldn't. Noob goes into B&M and gets sold an ego/viva and the internet cried foul. Noob goes into a B&M and get sold a DNA mod that hits 100 watts. The internet cries foul.

I got up to plate my first baseball game and got drilled in the back by a pitch. I took my base.

Never seen Red Pannys. The PDs amd PFs are green...The CHs were grey.

Dude goes and buys a lambo... Flooors it out and runs into a telephone pool and then complains that he was sold a car with too much power. Some personal responsibility needs to be at play.

 

[BigBoyBlue]

Thankfully my local B&M is full of very friendly and informed staff. I have seen them sell multiple starter kits with simple 510 batteries and tanks. I've also seen them sell first timers a mech mod with a RDA. However the times they sold the mech mod the individual came in informed and knew what they wanted. Any people that come in with little to no knowledge get the starter kit(that was me).

As for sub-ohming it's a matter of preference. I sub-ohm at times, but mainly run a kayfun lite at or above 1 ohm. As long as people aren't ignorant then have at it. I understand that some people are just jerks and will be jerks doing whatever it is they are doing. I have met people that fall into this category but I wouldn't say that sub-ohmers are more prone to this. The problem is that when they are jerks they are huge jerks blowing huge clouds and drawing attention to themselves. This can give others a bad impression of people that sub ohm. That being said I've met people at church that were just as bad. Every crowd has bad apples, it's an unfortunate fact of life.

 

[rusty zipper]

I sure to goodness hope the pendulum swings back to normal vaping. This "extreme" version of vaping has lost all sight of what vaping was originally about (quitting smoking). It can be downright dangerous, and what we're seeing are the blind leading the blind. I work in a B&M and do you know how many kids (18, yes, but they're still kids) I just subconsciously shake my head at? They're all young men (I've only met two females -- both women -- who were into rebuildables, and they most definitely were not cloudchasers), the vast majority have never smoked (well, not cigarettes, anyway) and they care little for safety. You can do your best to emphasize safety first, but this cloudchasing crowd of boys will have nothing of it. The biggest umbrage I take to cloudchasers is how they look down their noses at anything that isn't a mech mod with an RDA on top. Please, kids, please realize -- rebuilding is NOT, by any means, the be all, end all, endgame for vapers. You're the fringe. Why, all of a sudden, is the ONLY way to "truly experience vaping" is via rebuilding?

And did you ever even smoke before? Are you trying to quit smoking? Or is it the new cool thing to do, and you want to be as cool as your buddies and do little vape tricks (that no one even really cares about except you and your friends.)

I was gonna say something here but decided not to.

 

[Confuzzled1969]

After reading through most of the posts in this thread; I have to ask, were are these stores?

I travel extensively through 14 states in the center of the country and I stop at a vape shop in every spot I go and I have never encountered a bad experience. They are all a little overly cautious on safety and have always been willing to talk about the experience at length.

The only thing they ever said that I question is apparently rampant in the vaping community and that is about rotating the position of the batteries when used in series.

Other than that, which is completely ambiguous at worst, I have had very good experiences. I have met a lot of interesting people, some more interesting than others for sure, but great experiences none the less.

There are a lot of uninformed people out there for sure, but I have not found them working at a B&M. Here's my humble suggestion, if you have a bad experience at your local B&M, let them know in a respectful way and give them the chance to get it right. If we simply come on here and rant about it, we are giving the government reasons for regualtions, and the cost will rise as a result of these regualtions...

This is a new industry, if we look at it from the stand point that we want it to stay unregulated, cheap, and lots of choices as it is today, we should try to correct the problems at the least common denominator, as a customer to business relationship.

 

[Tranquility Base]

"There's a sucker born every minute." -- P. T. Barnum.

"For every sucker there are two P. T. Barnums waiting to rip him off." -- me.

 

[Rocketpunk]

I was gonna say something here but decided not to.

Say whatever you want, it's a forum.

 

[Rocketpunk]

After reading through most of the posts in this thread; I have to ask, were are these stores?

Have to agree. Been to numerous brick and mortar stores in the Ohio and Tennessee regions and never once encountered someone who didn't know what they were talking about.

I have a feeling a lot of newer posters confuse smoke shops that started carrying e-cig merch, or mall kiosks, with legit B&M's. Also, there is this aura of superiority new users get after they join ECF. Hating on B&M's is a weekly occurrence here. Either they over-charge, the employees are nincompoops, or the poster ALWAYS knows more about vaping than the owners or staff. They're often told to go back in and educate the store, as if they're the only bastion of hope for knowledge. (If you're the superior one, why aren't you behind the counter, and not vice versa?)

Also, if you don't agree with the prices or the staff's knowledge, don't go there. I don't repeatedly go to a restaurant when I know I'm going to get sub-par service or food. I also don't go to those restaurants and then turn right around and rant about them online.

Honestly... I've encountered the "I know more than you do" customers, and in the long run, no, they don't. They're great at spouting things they've read or heard about online. But their air of superiority doesn't bother me in the long run. They just like to hear themselves talk, they revel in feeling like they're the superior ones, like they're teaching me. The truly knowledgeable ones are humble. They listen and think more than talk, and when they do talk, it's in a humble manner. I suffer the know-it-alls politely, but trust me, as soon as they take their pompous blank out of the store, I share a good laugh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFWeoxrhbE8 (*only* in this case, I do agree with Ron Swanson).

 

[AndriaD]

Alas, I can't shop at my local B&Ms anymore; both of them carry ejuices only in 50/50 or even more VG, which I simply cannot vape (or Halo, whose PG/VG is unknown, but I simply do not like!). I know it's far more common to be sensitive to PG, but you'd think these stores would get that there are some few of us that can't handle much VG, and offer at least one line that's 75/25 or more PG.

And I would never buy hardware at a B&M, if there is ANY alternative -- like, the internet! I understand fully why retail markup is so high, but that understanding does not give me the means to pay those prices.

Andria

 

[Rocketpunk]

I agree for the most part, Andria. And yes, mark-ups can be high. But if you factor in shipping and handling, the wait, and not being able to immediately fix a problem, or speak to a human face to face, things can get frustrating even more. Legit B&M's offer knowledgeable staff, hands on shopping, and return/refund/exchange policies. They'll work with people if it's a legitimate problem. Oftentimes you'll have to do the e-mail dance back and forth to get something purchased on-line straightened out. A legit B&M will not send you out of their doors if their products are not working. I still don't understand the hate for B&M's on this forum. Where are you people going?? I can't be the only one with decent, or more-than-above-average B&M's in the tri-state area.

No one, not anybody, can argue that in-store prices are cheaper than on-line prices. No one will ever argue that. It's stone cold fact. But posters should be careful when they demonize B&M's. Some are fly by nights, some are sincere.

EDIT: I'm aware of your reactions to VG. I understand you need PG heavy juice. But out of statistical observation, I've never, ever heard anyone tell me they can't handle vegetable glycerin. It has always been PG. Not everyone can cater to everything, and while I sympathize, major juice vendors cannot be at fault for this.

I remember first hearing "gluten free" three years ago. I worked in the food industry for fifteen years and no one ever said the words "gluten free" until then. After that, everyone was celiac.