FDA ANOTHER Petition for the FDA

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CES

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they FINALLY, in an email that i received within the past hour, responded to the last whitehouse.gov petition. The one that we got 25K signatures for a year or so ago. The official response was signed by Mitch Zeller of the FDA. grrr.

Regulation of Electronic Cigarettes by the FDA

By Mitch Zeller, the Director of the Food and Drug Administration's Center for tobacco Products.

Thank you for your petition on electronic cigarettes.

First things first: While we are seeking to regulate products like electronic cigarettes, the proposed regulation would not ban them.

Some background, which you may already know: The Family Smoking Prevention and tobacco Control Act that Congress passed in 2009 gave the FDA immediate authority to regulate certain tobacco products -- cigarettes, cigarette tobacco, roll-your-own tobacco, and smokeless tobacco -- under the Federal Food, Drug, & Cosmetic Act. And while it didn't apply right away to other tobacco products, such as electronic cigarettes, the law gave the FDA authority to cover those products through regulation.

We've issued a proposed rule to allow the FDA to regulate those products in the April 25, 2014 issue of the Federal Register. Electronic cigarettes containing nicotine derived from tobacco would meet the statutory definition of "tobacco product" and so they'd be subject to the FD&C Act when the proposed rule is finalized.

Now the petition states that sections 905 and 910 of the FD&C Act would "ban all e-cigarettes," and that's not true.

If the FDA finalizes the rule in its current form, electronic cigarettes manufacturers will need authorization to sell products not commercially marketed as of February 15, 2007 -- but this doesn't mean these products would be banned. Sections 905 and 910 describe the applications and reports manufacturers will need to submit to sell their products.

There will be two primary ways for tobacco products to obtain that authorization: either an application for "substantial equivalence," or an application for premarket approval.

"Substantial equivalence" would ask manufacturers to compare their products to another product that was already commercially marketed by February 15, 2007 or that was previously found by FDA to be substantially equivalent -- though we acknowledge this may be challenging for electronic cigarettes. Second would be the premarket tobacco application, where a manufacturer submits information to the FDA establishing it would be "appropriate for the protection of public health" to allow the product to be marketed.

We know that those applications may require time and resources to develop. That's why the FDA does not intend to take legal action against manufacturers for marketing their products without prior authorization until the FDA issues its decision on the application -- so long as the manufacturer gets its application in within two years and thirty days after the final rule is published. Our hope is to provide manufacturers flexibility as the FDA completes its review.

So why are we seeking to regulate these products in the first place? As we discuss in the proposed rule, though all tobacco products are potentially harmful and potentially addictive, different categories of tobacco products may have the potential for varying effects on public health. There's still a lot we don't know about these products, and this rule will expand the amount of information available to the FDA and the public -- that's good for everyone.

Some people believe that e-cigarettes may help smokers quit smoking and that switching from regular cigarettes to e-cigarettes may reduce exposure to harmful components and constituents in cigarette smoke. But again, we don't know enough to make that call. This rule would help us to continue to analyze the potential benefits and risks of e-cigarettes, including their impact on nonusers and on the population as a whole.

It's important to remember that this rule isn't final yet, though. We're seeking comments on the proposed rule as to how e-cigarettes should be regulated based on the continuum of nicotine-delivering products, and the potential benefits and risks associated with e-cigarettes.

The opportunity to comment on FDA's proposed rule is now open and comments are due on July 9, 2014. We encourage you to do so, and to provide any data and information you may have to support your comments.

Related links:

See the proposed rule
Submit a comment on the proposed rule

Tell us what you think about this response and We the People.
 

Tyrawr

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PLEASE STOP!!!

(1) We were asked to WAIT for CASAA to issue some guidance on what we should do and when.

(2) The petition contains false statements. The very first sentence is FALSE. The FDA has only PROPOSED regulations.

(3) The petition is poorly worded and contains spelling, grammar, and syntax errors. It doesn't help us if it reads as if it was written by a third-grader.

I understand how you feel; we're all _____ (nervous, scared, angry). But we can't go off half-cocked on our own with a petition here and a letter there. We need to put forth a unified effort and we need to do it intelligently.

Please don't sign the petition. WAIT for CASAA's guidance.

If you're not a member of CASAA, please join. If you are a member, please donate!

BUMP.
Are you online petition signers paying any attention?
PLEASE, if you want to "do something", take a couple of good deep breaths and maybe a couple of pulls off of your favorite vape.
Read this comment from another great thread :
(Moderators if this belongs elsewhere please move it)

With the release of the proposed deeming regulations by the FDA I am seeing a whole lot of vapers in "OMG what can we do to stop this" mode. I thought I would post my thoughts of what next steps can be taken.

1. First of take a vape and calm down. NOTHING is going to do any good if we are all running in different directions and not really working together or thinking things through.

2. Educate yourself. Read up on the governmental processes involved here. Read up on the studies pro and con of vaping. Find out what rights you actually have. READ the proposed deeming regulations. Not a synopsis by a commentator. Sit down with a a pen and notepad and READ the proposal. Take notes. Write down questions you have about what things mean as you read it. Odds are if you haven't found the answer by the time you finish reading then that is a good question vapers need an answer on.

3. Join CASAA and help them financially if you are able. These folks are on the frontline of our defense. They are the ones that have the staff (if I remember rightly several ARE Lawyers) and the connections to get things done. GET INVOLVED. They will help you with ideas on how you can get involved not just nationally but locally as well. Yes they are silent right now. THey are not going to say anything until they have carefully analyzed the document. Why? See #1 & #2.

4. Realize that even amongst vapers there are going to be differing opinions on the issue. Some think we have no worries and others see potential for big trouble. Try hard not to let the differences become personal or flare into divisiveness. A house divided cannot stand and time spent bickering is time lost fighting. Sometimes it is better not waste time in an argument and why show the cracks in the community to the opposition so that they can widen them.

Once you have done all of the above then
1. Write to legislaters
2. Comment during the 75 day comment period for the proposal
3. Blog/vlog
4. Social media (whichever one you use)
5. Write editorials for your local fishwrap (newspapers)
6. Make the rounds of vape shops handing out CASAA card and making sure they know what is happening. Try to enlist their aid in getting word out to their customers (bring cards and posters for them).
7. Get your family and friends involved even if they do not vape. Never underestimate the power of a spouse who is just happy you are going to be around longer to share life with. Get them onto their social media.

In short stand together as a community and get the word out to grow or community and get our voices heard.

Poorly written online petitions aren't going to get us very far in any unified direction, on any topic.
I'm very glad to see such energy and enthusiasm. It scares me to see the hive-mind buzzing into near hysteria.
Many other important decisions were and are being made this week (ask net neutrality... At the very least, the FDA is opening some form of dialogue. Everyone panics. The FCC sells the internet. No one bats an eye.). Vaping is very important to all of us, obviously, but realize that the rights we are fighting for apply in all areas of our life. The only thing we are lacking at this point is organization, unity, and good ideas.
Don't panic! Please, let's open up communication with one another, and stop putting our signatures on every petition that happens to pop up on our computer screens. It does not serve our cause.
 

StefanDidak

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Bump again, just for bumpness sake.

It scares me to see the hive-mind buzzing into near hysteria.

I feel strangely responsible in an unintended way. For months I've been telling other vapers to get off their lazy selfish butts because their "oh, I am stocking up, I will have enough to last me a while, I will think of me first, second, and third" attitudes. Of course, you may be well aware that the real advocates and activists are only a small portion of the total if you combine us all and I really wanted to see our numbers grow. Seeing this go down, this farce of a "petition" action, I am starting to seriously doubt whether the idea of trying to get more vapers to take action and not sit idly by is a mistake. Maybe we should ask them to go sit on the butts again, be selfish, and whatever you do, remain that way. It might be less damaging to all of us.

The real serious issue with well intended but beyond poorly executed shoot-from-the-hip-gung-ho actions is that if there are any more uncoordinated and random actions like these us serious vapers who've worked very hard to organize, study, understand, and respond to actions may simply be ignored because the perception will be that we're part of the large bunch of irrational screamers.

There's a lot of serious, mature, thinking and intelligent vapers out there but I am starting to wonder if we're just a tiny minority given the number of signatures on that "petition". That number scares me. I don't scare easily.
 

shelzmike

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In all due fairness, I have to say that his response was actually somewhat decent and not at all us v. them as they could have made it. I don't like regulation as much as the next tea partier. :p but we all knew regs were impossible to avoid entirely and the best thing we can do is be firm but play nice..we need to vigilant but not vigilantes

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk
 

JD4x4

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PLEASE STOP!!!

(1) We were asked to WAIT for CASAA to issue some guidance on what we should do and when.

(2) The petition contains false statements. The very first sentence is FALSE. The FDA has only PROPOSED regulations.

(3) The petition is poorly worded and contains spelling, grammar, and syntax errors. It doesn't help us if it reads as if it was written by a third-grader.

I understand how you feel; we're all _____ (nervous, scared, angry). But we can't go off half-cocked on our own with a petition here and a letter there. We need to put forth a unified effort and we need to do it intelligently.

Please don't sign the petition. WAIT for CASAA's guidance.

If you're not a member of CASAA, please join. If you are a member, please donate!

IMO, the wording in the petition is not relevant.
The title asks the White House to Veto FDA regulation. HHS is FDA's parent & POTUS directs HHS within the legal constraints of Congressional mandate.

Regardless ... this is a show of numbers for people that are fed up. Period. Show me where CASAA or anyone else has shown in public exactly how many reasonably verifiable vapers are against this regulation. If it accomplishes that alone it's worth the effort. If it does more, then that's better. Elections are coming.

Ignore rhetorical responses from anyone in govt.
They are on thin ice and I think they know it.

13249 and growing every few minutes. Needs to get to the B&M's for posting on their doors & windows, imo.

As for intellegence and above grade school grammar, there is PLENTY of it in the numerous research papers that the FDA IGNORED in their deeming dissertation. What makes you think being a scholar will help? Voters count.

Besides, if CASAA comes up with a better petition then nothing keeps us from signing that too. And, it will benefit another petition if this gets more of the people who were previously afraid to sign up off their butts and signed up.
 
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StefanDidak

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IMO, the wording in the petition is not relevant.

Regardless ... this is a show of numbers for people that are fed up. Period.

So, let me see if I understand this. You're saying that this is about showing how many people without a clue you can get to sign a petition that most probably didn't even read and if they did possibly didn't understand because the wording and content of the petition is irrelevant?

Well, if the goal is to just get people to sign to that and send a signal saying "this is how many uneducated vapers we got to go along" then I'd say it's going fairly well. In the meantime I'm sure it will help our opposition greatly to show this in combination with their other allegations of how vapers "are ignorant" about our e-liquid and everything else. All they need to do is hold up that petition and the numbers and say "you would trust these ignorant people on the subject of ecigs?". And they'd have a damn good point.

If I were on the strategy and marketing team for an ANTZ related organization I'd put up a petition just like that to poison the well. Especially if it shows a large number of vapers being more ignorant than those who are trying to oppose it.

The level of idiocy reminds me of the movie, Idiocracy.
 

AndriaD

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I signed it yesterday but today I posted it to my Facebook wall... If I could figure out how to tweet something that's not a "retweet" I'd tweet it too. Can anyone help me figure that out, or point me to a @twitter thingie that will let me retweet it?

Thx
Andria
 

AndriaD

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AgentAnia

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Thanks... just submitted the "Join Group" thing...

But I still need to know how to tweet something that isn't a retweet... I've never been able to figure that out. Twitter mostly escapes me, though I'm happy to hit "retweet" on anything beneficial to vaping.

Andria

Andria, look at the upper right corner of your twitter page. It should look like this:

twittersnip1.JPG

If you click on the far right box (w/ feather, "Compose New Tweet"), you'll get a screen like this:

twittersnip2.JPG

Enter text in box, hit "tweet" button, and you're a tweeter... Hope this helps.
 

AndriaD

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Andria, look at the upper right corner of your twitter page. It should look like this:

View attachment 329761

If you click on the far right box (w/ feather, "Compose New Tweet"), you'll get a screen like this:

View attachment 329763

Enter text in box, hit "tweet" button, and you're a tweeter... Hope this helps.

Thanks! I was able to get it tweeted! :thumb:

Andria
 

Tyrawr

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Uhh.. what?? I thought the whole point was to get plenty of signatures before May24, which isn't that far off.

Andria

Just out of curiosity, did you happen to read any comments in this thread after page 1?
That quick task would probably elucidate Stefan's comment pretty quickly and effectively.
What happens on May 24th?
 

Tyrawr

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Bump again, just for bumpness sake.



I feel strangely responsible in an unintended way. For months I've been telling other vapers to get off their lazy selfish butts because their "oh, I am stocking up, I will have enough to last me a while, I will think of me first, second, and third" attitudes. Of course, you may be well aware that the real advocates and activists are only a small portion of the total if you combine us all and I really wanted to see our numbers grow. Seeing this go down, this farce of a "petition" action, I am starting to seriously doubt whether the idea of trying to get more vapers to take action and not sit idly by is a mistake. Maybe we should ask them to go sit on the butts again, be selfish, and whatever you do, remain that way. It might be less damaging to all of us.

The real serious issue with well intended but beyond poorly executed shoot-from-the-hip-gung-ho actions is that if there are any more uncoordinated and random actions like these us serious vapers who've worked very hard to organize, study, understand, and respond to actions may simply be ignored because the perception will be that we're part of the large bunch of irrational screamers.

There's a lot of serious, mature, thinking and intelligent vapers out there but I am starting to wonder if we're just a tiny minority given the number of signatures on that "petition". That number scares me. I don't scare easily.

I'm glad that you are here and awake :)

I think the "stock pile" idea is pretty poorly thought out. As it stands, we probably have at least a couple of years before regulation anyway. In a couple of years, "your stock pile" will have spoiled and become outdated, even if you managed to store it properly and not use it all up. And when you run out?

What is alarming to me (in all arenas) is just how much most people think that they "know", and how often people confuse their emotions and beliefs surrounding themselves with knowledge or wisdom, especially concerning things outside of themselves. Pseudo-advocacy is rampant in many of our cultures today. It's alarming how many people think that they have done their "duty", serving on the front line, by signing an online petition and posting links on facebook and twitter. Then, feeling good about their hard work, they order some more innokin products and put in a juice order. What if we all spent one week's (vaping/etc.) budget contributing to CASAA (etc.), and spent our shopping and preaching time actually working at being responsible and active advocates and citizens. This is not exclusive to vaping, and I love all of the energy and enthusiasm of the community as a whole. However, many of these actions and ideas, while definitely well-meaning, are very poorly guided, educated, and executed.

These issues have always plagued human systems and growth. Look at our history, reflect on your own experience, and think about it for a second. There are a lot of serious, matured, compassionate deep-thinkers all over the place. It's such an exciting time, because lots of people are remembering their being-ness, and our interconnectedness. The "high-level" human count, in my experience and reality, is definitely increasing. But this type of person, in this system, has always been the minority.

I'm relatively new to the forum and community as well, so I derive a really strange perspective from seeing this vaping freedom militia thing from 2, 3, maybe 4 month old forum members/vapers. As an observer/lurker type, it disturbs me. Some random "sign this vaping is good, regulations are evil" link pops up and says "sign me!" and everyone jumps on it. Then talkers syndrome kicks in: people come into forum threads just to post "signed it" without reading what they signed, or even checking out the 10 or 20, or even 100 posts discussing the topic. There is usually a general deficiency in slowing down, reflecting, and listening. "People" have a notoriously hard time thinking for themselves, questioning, and genuinely forming their own opinions. We also have a hard time unifying on common grounds, with a large, concentrated, effort. We can all work at it ;)

Anyway, I think you are doing fine. And it is nice to see people doing something, with their hearts in the right place. I think this is an exciting and wonderful time to be alive. I think that we tend to forget our power, and I think that a lot of these issues are more basically simple than we tend to make them out to be. It is concerning though. Let's work at slowing down, unifying, and thinking for ourselves and questioning. Let's work on figuring out exactly what we actually want, and how we are going to get there. Regulation is inevitable, as it stands. Let's make it work out for all sides.
 
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