Another question about total flavoring %

[rhythm rambler]

I'm still trying to keep my total flavoring ratios to a minimum but it can be tough especially with lower-concentrated flavorings like TFA. I'm wondering if a lower-concentrated flavoring means it has a higher base (PG or VG) ratio? For example, maybe using 10% of a TFA flavoring is actually the same amount of flavoring as a 4% FA?

I don't know if that makes sense. Trying to state it differently- are some flavorings less potent simply because they have more PG or VG base in them?

 

[RocketPuppy]

I can't answer for certain, but it makes sense. I think people may find it easier to work with because if they're off .1ml or so, it wouldn't make too much of a difference if the concentration is more diluted.

 

[dannyv45]

Different manafactures have different percentages for instance loranne needs 12 - 20% FA tobaccos up to 7%. TFA are all different. You need to go on the sites that you bought them from and look for there recommendations. Theusually gice a range for example 5 - 15%. Always start with the lowest recommended percent and work up. Listing the flavors in the thread may help as so that have used it may be able to give you recommendations.

 

[rhythm rambler]

Hey Danny- I'm not asking for flavoring percentages. I'm wondering from a health point of view (which we're all guessing guinea pigs anyway), if for example vaping 15% of TGA Graham is essentially using the same net amount of flavoring as, say, 5% of a FA flavor because the TFA is more dilute.

 

[Jonathan Tittle]

Hey Danny- I'm not asking for flavoring percentages. I'm wondering from a health point of view (which we're all guessing guinea pigs anyway), if for example vaping 15% of TGA Graham is essentially using the same net amount of flavoring as, say, 5% of a FA flavor because the TFA is more dilute.

It'd be hard to compare X flavor from Y manufacturer and X flavor from Z manufacturer as the process to make the flavors is most likely entirely different in terms of what they use to create the flavoring. Most FlavourArt flavorings are indeed many times more concentrated, IMO, than Flavor Apprentice flavors, but there are some from both that are stronger/weaker if you do a comparison.

The same could be said of any of manufacturer, including Capella's, Hangsen etc. They all seem to have a few that are really strong and a few that are really weak, hence the wild range of % usage.

From a health standpoint, it's all flavoring and it's being further diluted with the PG/VG we mix in. Short of flavors with diketones like Diacetyl, Acetoin and Acetyl Proprionyl, I honestly don't see one as being any more healthy than the next without further breaking down exactly what it took to create each flavor; something many are not going to do as that would essentially give away the composition of their flavoring.

 

[rhythm rambler]

From a health standpoint, it's all flavoring and it's being further diluted with the PG/VG we mix in.

Thanks for your thoughts. Your statement above gets more at what I'm thinking about. But it isn't all flavoring right? It's flavoring dispersed into a PG or VG base, right? So it seems to me that just like our recipes have a total flavoring-to-base ratio, each individual flavoring has its own flavoring-to base ratio (possibly the reason for weak vs strong flavorings?), and this should also be considered when thinking about minimizing flavorings in recipes.

Or I could just stop thinking about this

 

[Stosh]

The flavorings from any vendor are all in a PG or PGA carrier, and in different strengths, for example...
For Espresso flavor, I find the FA the strongest and use it at about 4%, TPA needs 8% and Capellas 5%....but for say Lemon flavor the numbers would be very different, and TPA would be stronger than Capellas (to my taste anyway, YMMV).

With each vendor and each flavor, the strengths can be all over the place, the carrier PG / VG / PGA would not make as much difference as which flavor and which vendor you're using....

 

[Jonathan Tittle]

Thanks for your thoughts. Your statement above gets more at what I'm thinking about. But it isn't all flavoring right? It's flavoring dispersed into a PG or VG base, right? So it seems to me that just like our recipes have a total flavoring-to-base ratio, each individual flavoring has its own flavoring-to base ratio (possibly the reason for weak vs strong flavorings?), and this should also be considered when thinking about minimizing flavorings in recipes.

Or I could just stop thinking about this

But it isn't all flavoring right?

- In "pure" form, most flavoring is either in a gel-like form or crystallized (if you'll see some notes from TFA/TPA - you'll see that they state some flavors may crystallize and need heating/shaking to recombine them). More often than not, they're in crystal form, similar to how Ethyl Malitol if it's not mixed with a solution, and they're mixed with PG, PG & VG, Alcohol, Water or a mix of all four solutions to develop a product that's usable.

So it seems to me that just like our recipes have a total flavoring-to-base ratio

I'm sure that would be the case since all flavoring is composed of different chemical structures, just as most fruits are. That doesn't mean they're all safe, but if we take TPA/TFA and soon, Capella's, as examples, they're identifying which flavors have the chemicals that are deemed unsuitable for vaping or, at the very least, chemicals that some prefer not to vape (such as Acetoin and Acetyl Proprionyl which is what gives custards their buttery flavor). There's no set X to PG, VG, Alcohol, Water ratio that we'll be able to identify. Such ratios are what comprise the flavor and such ratios probably will not be divulged.


That all being said, some flavors are simply going to be weaker than others. If we took caramel and espresso and compared them, I'd expect espresso to be much stronger, so usage would be less to achieve the same level of flavoring as 2-10x that of caramel. The same could be said of a true espresso flavor versus a standard coffee flavor due to the way espresso is made.

Much like how the usage rates vary, I'm sure Company X's dilution rates vary and giving up how much of Flavor X is mixed in with their diluted product isn't something many will venture to divulge.

 

[03FXDWG]

I also think many companies are using the same chemicals but pre-diluted to different amounts. The absolute lowest totals of flavoring I have seen are Nude Nicotine's. They are also PG free. I haven't tried any but search the thread here and you'll see that those who have are all using less than 7% and many are less than 5%.

 

[Jonathan Tittle]

I also think many companies are using the same chemicals but pre-diluted to different amounts. The absolute lowest totals of flavoring I have seen are Nude Nicotine's. They are also PG free. I haven't tried any but search the thread here and you'll see that those who have are all using less than 7% and many are less than 5%.

NudeNicotine actually makes their flavorings, last I recall and they're designed to be stronger to save money for us DIY'ers. I have their Strawberry Banana Smoothie and more than 5% is overkill (and I mean, OVERKILL ).