anti e-cig commercial

[EddardinWinter]

All of us did briefly but to be honest with you I dont have much faith in them pursuing anything but their own agenda.

For any kind of regulatory e-juice association to be taken seriously they need to get the top e-juice manufacturers on board and also have a set of clearly defined goals and rules that all of those manufacturers can agree to.

I wouldnt call any of their members currently a "top-tier e-juice vendor". I also wouldnt make taking food coloring out of juices a top priority (even if I had an allergy to them like AEMSA's president). Bigger fish to fry and all that.....

I did not know the food coloring thing was a personal deal. That never made sense to me, Zapped, but now it adds up. What kind of rubbish is that?

Don't forget they do not permit WTAs as well. Why?

There is a reason very few top vendors are getting involved. AEMSA is a bad, bad idea. Their philosophy of "lets give away some freedoms so the FDA will be nice to us" is ridiculous. I purchase my e-liquid from several unregulated vendors, and it is first rate, with excellent quality control, and is not regulated by anyone. I will not stand with an organization that seeks to restrict the rights of vendors with rules that don't make any sense at all to me.

I stand with CASAA. A proven fighter for your right to vape.

 

[jerzi]

To smoke, tobacco has to be cured. That may be all that is needed for small pipe tobacco companies where customers look at year to year differences and embrace them. But big cigarette companies need consistency so they have to process that cured tobacco.
I would guess by the time it's all said and done it would be a wash to extract nicotine vs make cigarettes that taste the same year after year. You certainly can't post your big list of chemicals that go into "big tobacco" and then claim it's cheaper than extracting because extracting needs a few chemicals.

I read that there was also a lot of nicotine waste from tobacco manufacturers and was sold off for insecticide uses. I'm wondering what amount this is and if it is able to be used after being refined, if you know anywhere I could read about this process, I would appreciate the info.

 

[EddardinWinter]

"While these ingredients are approved as additives for foods, they were not tested."
It's the exact same things with ecigs, food additives, no long term inhalation study.

Additives were added for longevity of the analog and to sweeten them, because when tobacco is burned it tastes like .... Ejuice does not suffer from these issues.

That is nonsense, jerzi. There are plenty of tobaccos that can be cured and smoked with nothing at all added to them. Where on earth did you hear this? I no longer smoke, but I used to get tobacco from a farmer in the Clarksville, VA area that was awesome right out of his makeshift warehouse. He did not add any chemicals to it at all.

EDIT: Just so you know, few pesticides are needed for most tobacco crops, because nicotine is a natural pesticide. There are a few insects that are resistant to it, but a normal crop for Mr. Wilson did not use any chemical pesticides. He only used them if he discovered the pest during his inspections.

 

[zoiDman]

...

Additives were added for longevity of the analog and to sweeten them, because when tobacco is burned it tastes like .... Ejuice does not suffer from these issues.

This isn't Exactly true.

Many Chemicals are used because it is Cheaper to use them than it is to Cure Tobacco using "Natural" Methods. And the Icing on the Cake is that some of these Chemicals are Highly Addictive.

Wow... Cheaper and More Addictive. That's a Home Run for BT.

 

[jerzi]

That is nonsense, jerzi. There are plenty of tobaccos that can be cured and smoked with nothing at all added to them. Where on earth did you hear this? I no longer smoke, but I used to get tobacco from a farmer in the Clarksville, VA area that was awesome right out of his makeshift warehouse. He did not add any chemicals to it at all.

I guess it would be subjective to taste, but ingredients have been added to bring in a larger consumer market, like adding menthol over the process. I would of like to tried that tobacco you mentioned before I quit.

Maybe them tasting like ... wasn't quite how I wanted to say it, I apologize.

 

[jerzi]

This isn't Exactly true.

Many Chemicals are used because it is Cheaper to use them than it is to Cure Tobacco using "Natural" Methods. And the Icing on the Cake is that some of these Chemicals are Highly Addictive.

Wow... Cheaper and More Addictive. That's a Home Run for BT.

Yeah, it's the same reason why food manufacturers put certain ingredients into their food, even if it is at a higher cost. The extended cost will be offset by the people who keep coming back to purchase it. Usually the cheapest, most harmful additives, will produce this addiction.

 

[EddardinWinter]

I guess it would be subjective to taste, but ingredients have been added to bring in a larger consumer market, like adding menthol over the process. I would of like to tried that tobacco you mentioned before I quit.

I know. I do miss that, but I do not miss coughing up my lungs, running out of breath, getting sick, etc. I never rolled my own except after visiting that farm.

Some of the ingredients added DO improve the flavor for many smokers, I agree with that. That said, most cigarette makers add chemicals that DECREASES the taste with preservatives since most people don't have a humidor to keep their smokes in.

The natural tobacco flavor is really something else, nothing like the 'boros and camels I used to spend 5 bucks a pack on.

 

[jerzi]

EDIT: Just so you know, few pesticides are needed for most tobacco crops, because nicotine is a natural pesticide. There are a few insects that are resistant to it, but a normal crop for Mr. Wilson did not use any chemical pesticides. He only used them if he discovered the pest during his inspections.

I was inquiring on the wasted nicotine, I'm assuming that was lost in the curing process as I'm not familiar how it is actually done. It was sold off to use as insecticide for crops also with a tobacco powder, not sure if that was another waste from the curing process?

 

[ScottP]

They can produce mods in a production line that would make the price of handcrafted mods look like a joke.
It could never position itself on the nicotine market because this would disqualify medical companies from producing their nicotine replacement systems. That will never happen.

Just where do you think this production line would be? Oh yeah China, the same place the production lines already are making nearly all of the hardware that we use other than the big boy customs jobs and mechs that BigT would never bother with.

I agree, it might be a little more expensive on the extracting side, but analogs are quickly perishable, not the case with eliquid.

I will concede the cost bit since it is pure speculation on both of our parts.

 

[ScottP]

And if they can't get a lock on hardware because people can mod the same would apply to nicotine. It's not news that there are trailer park labs doing more difficult extractions. You don't have to grow good tobacco (or even tobacco for that matter) to extract nicotine and it's not illegal to grow tobacco.

That is just it. You don't think BigT will try to get DIY and self extractions to be be made illegal just like growing your own "other leafy herbs". Even if they can't get DIY to be illegal, how many people do you REALLY think are going to grow their own tobacco, do their own extraction, then make their own juice instead of just picking up a pack of smokes? Probably about as many that are willing to grow and roll their own analogs today.

 

[sbc83]

1. See my post above yours for why BigT is in the eCig biz.

2. I don't see Big-T posting THEIR ingredients list either: Cigarette Ingredients - Chemicals in Cigarettes

3. The ingredients list from above would be ALLOWED in your juice if regulated like tobacco.

4. If you wonder just what kind of morals BigT really has, watch this: Vanguard: Sex, Lies and Cigarettes

I just finished watching that entire "Clip".


Wow.

 

[ScottP]

I was inquiring on the wasted nicotine, I'm assuming that was lost in the curing process as I'm not familiar how it is actually done. It was sold off to use as insecticide for crops also with a tobacco powder, not sure if that was another waste from the curing process?

I SOOO hope you are not thinking that it would be a good idea for BigT to use WASTE product to make ejuice with after coming in here and talking about unsafe you think the current ejuices are. How could you even trust BigT to not put in some of the more addictive and harmful chemicals from cigarettes into the juice they make, just to make it more addictive? There are threads here on EFC already saying that after vaping for a while they are actually LESS addicted to vaping than they ever were analogs. You can rest assured that BigT will want to fix that asap.

Make no mistake, BigT is NOT pushing for regulations because they have your health and best interests at heart. They do not care if you have clean safe ejuice or not. They are NOT trying to be good a Samaritan. They want to make the most money possible and they will throw you under the bus and run back and forth over you to get it.

 

[jerzi]

Just where do you think this production line would be? Oh yeah China, the same place the production lines already are making nearly all of the hardware that we use other than the big boy customs jobs and mechs that BigT would never bother with.

I will concede the cost bit since it is pure speculation on both of our parts.

Yeah, everything is mostly produced in China at a lower cost as for electronics.

Honestly though, I doubt BigT would even be concerned with the people who are into the mods. The production of the generic ecig holds most of the market share, I beleive Blu holds about 25% of it and Njoy at 33%.

It will most likely be from someone getting nic poisoning or dying from it with instant restrictions enforced by the FDA, instead of BigT instituting a change.

 

[ScottP]

Yeah, everything is mostly produced in China at a lower cost as for electronics.

Honestly though, I doubt BigT would even be concerned with the people who are into the mods. The production of the generic ecig holds most of the market share, I beleive Blu holds about 25% of it and Njoy at 33%.

It will most likely being from someone getting nic poisoning or dying from it with instant restrictions enforced by the FDA, instead of BigT instituting a change.

So just out of curiosity what types of regulations would YOU support?

I have thought about it, and there are a few I would be ok with:
1. Standardized labeling. I think MBV already does a great job of this, not sure about other vendors though.
2. Requirement to only use Food grade ingredients (PV, VG, and flavorings) listing any food coloring for those with allergies.
3. Requirement to wear protective gloves when mixing eJuice. This should be done anyway but would help protect the mixers.
4. A cap of 36mg nic per ml on "ready to use" juice.
5. A cap of 72mg per ml on DIY base juice.

I would NOT support anything that:
1. Requires the use of an FDA, EPA, OSHA approved laboratory.
2. Blocks mail order sales of juice (pre-made or DIY).
3. Blocks the sale of juice at B&M's (pre-made or DIY).
4. Makes it illegal to do your own extractions.
5. Blocks the import of juice or pre-built hardware from overseas.
6. Anything that ties vaping to existing or future analog laws.

The only problem with starting down the regulation path is stopping it before it goes to far.

 

[jerzi]

I SOOO hope you are not thinking that it would be a good idea for BigT to use WASTE product to make ejuice with after coming in here and talking about unsafe you think the current ejuices are. How could you even trust BigT to not put in some of the more addictive and harmful chemicals from cigarettes into the juice they make, just to make it more addictive? There are threads here on EFC already saying that after vaping for a while they are actually LESS addicted to vaping than they ever were analogs. You can rest assured that BigT will want to fix that asap.

Waste as in throw it away, because they would of had no other use for it. I'm not sure on how liquid nicotine is processed completely from start to end. It could of been sold in a raw byproduct from the curing process without any other processes to stabalize it for the aforementioned use as an insecticide..

 

[jerzi]

So just out of curiosity what types of regulations would YOU support?

I have thought about it, and there are a few I would be ok with:
1. Standardized labeling. I think MBV already does a great job of this, not sure about other vendors though.
2. Requirement to only use Food grade ingredients (PV, VG, and flavorings) listing any food coloring for those with allergies.
3. Requirement to wear protective gloves when mixing eJuice. This should be done anyway but would help protect the mixers.
4. A cap of 36mg nic per ml on "ready to use" juice.
5. A cap of 72mg per ml on DIY base juice.

I would NOT support anything that:
1. Requires the use of an FDA, EPA, OSHA approved laboratory.
2. Blocks mail order sales of juice (pre-made or DIY).
3. Blocks the sale of juice at B&M's (pre-made or DIY).
4. Makes it illegal to do your own extractions.
5. Blocks the import of juice or pre-built hardware from overseas.
6. Anything that ties vaping to existing or future analog laws.

The only problem with starting down the regulation path is stopping it before it goes to far.

Yes, they all sound reasonable to me.

Also a dedicated area for the sole purpose of mixing eliquids.
Child Protection
Poison control info / Signs of nicotine poisoning / Dangers of Nicotine.

 

[cookiebun]

I'm going to agree, a lot of these juices aren't made in labs. You really don't know how a lot of the ejuices are processed and where the ingredients come from.

Make your own!

 

[jerzi]

Make your own!

That's not the point. The point is, if something happens, countless people will go back to analogs.

 

[zoiDman]

That's not the point. The point is, if something happens, countless people will go back to analogs.

I think even in a Worst Case Scenario, there will be Pre-Filled Cartos in up to 18mg.

 

[ScottP]

I think even in a Worst Case Scenario, there will be Pre-Filled Cartos in up to 18mg.

I would be concerned that for the sake of consistency they would make the limits 4mg and 2mg (the same as for the gum and lozenges).