Any second-hand vaping concerns?

[ZambucaLu]

There is no second hand risk. None.

It isn't the PG that people are worried about....it's the nicotine....even in minute traces. And this is why most people are concerned about vaping around babies/small children.

And I don't think anyone is qualified to conclude this until there's been years of study on it.

What we'd like to think...or what opinions we form...does not mean that's the facts of it.

Lu

 

[NY JETS]

From a purely scientific view, everything needs to be tested. But until that happens, let's just all agree not to vape around babies?

 

[Doc]

There are many uncertainties in the field of medicine. Science was never meant to replace common sense. Years of second hand smoke studies have never shown nicotine to be a factor regarding second hand exposure. Very often physicians are required to assimilate all of the information available whether scientific or based on clinical experience. The concern of the lay person is understood however this does not change the FACT that the danger of second hand nicotine inhalation from e cig vapor under normal e cig use is of no concern (it may be of little concern for the primary user). Other nicotine exposure from the liquid directly such as ingestion may be of concern and there could be other dangers for the primary user. The second hand concern in question however can easily be put to rest.
Alexander Kaye MD
Community Health and Family Medicine

 

[Doc]

What we'd like to think...or what opinions we form...does not mean that's the facts of it.

Lu

I however agree with Lu's sentiment. Facts, objectivity and common sense.

 

[ZambucaLu]

The concern of the lay person is understood however this does not change the FACT that the danger of second hand nicotine inhalation from e cig vapor under normal e cig use is of no concern (it may be of little concern for the primary user). Other nicotine exposure from the liquid directly such as ingestion may be of concern and there could be other dangers for the primary user. The second hand concern in question however can easily be put to rest.

Alexander Kaye MD
Community Health and Family Medicine

Quite honestly, if you could point me to some links to support this with up to date, legit studies and research, I would be glad to take a look at it.

Lu

 

[wv2win]

My Wal-Greens pharmicist told me that PG was used in medical inhalers for what it is worth.

 

[Doc]

Quite honestly, if you could point me to some links to support this with up to date, legit studies and research, I would be glad to take a look at it.

Lu

Many studies attempt to link nicotine with disease. Clearly, there is not a study that specifically states...nicotine is safe....

You may already be aware of the studies attempting to link nicotine addiction to second hand smoke. The only thing that could be shown was kids exposed to second hand smoke had higher probability of becoming smokers. As you can imagine, this proves nothing about nicotine itself. The environmental variables (such as social situation and parents that smoke) are essentially impossible to control for. Nicotine itself even in primary users has not been proven to cause significant disease. Many studies link nicotine to increases in angiogenesis and transiently elevated blood pressures, both of which have potential connections with cancer and cardiac disease respectively, however these are SUPPOSED but no direct link between nicotine and these diseases has been proven without question. Now we are not even talking primary users, but secondary exposure, and we are not talking about smoke at all, but a vehicle for nicotine that at best is a modest delivery system, far weaker than tobacco smoke. We can hardly detect nicotine in e cig users. Second hand PG vaporized nicotine exposure is just not going to happen to any measurable degree, let alone disease from second hand nicotine exposure for PG vaporized solutions.

I am committed to an objective, scientific approach in my practice of medicine. That does not mean I discard logic and avoid making any medical decision if there is not one study that answers the precise question I am asking. The key concept is assimilation of all the studies we do have regarding a particular question and applying reason and experience. If you could look up one study online and answer any medical question you might have on any particular topic you would not need a physician.

The FDA uses similar arguments. Rather than leaving the decision up to the doctor that you trust based on your research of her credentials, her experience and your experience they will protect you and have you wait 20 years for their study to ask the question....is e smoking safe enough?

Even if you don't believe me, maybe you can agree that second hand e cig vapor is better for babies than smoke.

 

[Momof3]

But, I'm not a parent, and I do understand that parents have a skewed sense of risk where the rugrats are concerned, so if you want to baby-proof it by going outside anyway, I will forgive the lapse of rationality.

You'll be happy to know that most of that rationality will return with child #2. I've seen many perfectly sane people go off the deep end with their first. I've even seen a pediatrician paged off the golf course on a holiday weekend because a couples 1st baby had sleep in it's eye!



I smoked outside. I have no restrictions on vaping. Someone else's house, vehicle or business, I get permission first. I keep my stuff out of reach and secured. Second-hand vape is a non-issue for me. My kids, my decision. To each his own.

To the OP, if it really worries you, go outside. No need to expend the energy worrying about something you can easily resolve. Kids give you so many things you can worry about. Save your energy for something bigger.

 

[paladinx]

Wth, doesnt the latest studies say that even someone directly inhaling vapor only gets 1/5th the amount of nicotine in their blood, and now we are worried about someone getting nicotine from the air??? lol

Doc, have you ever seen the reports on the dangers of second hand tobacco smoke? I took a look at them and I realize t hey are completely bogus. The 2nd hand smoke bullcrap was propoganda set up by the anti tobacco groups in order to get cigarettes outlawed and banned everywhere. There is really no HARD scientific data that supports this idea at all.

 

[testerjtester]

You'll be happy to know that most of that rationality will return with child #2. I've seen many perfectly sane people go off the deep end with their first.

Well, you pegged me, this is my first... But the deep end behavior makes sense when you don't know what you're doing, and are afraid anything you do could break something they might need later, and if you have any more (which we won't), you're working with some experience, and everything you do doesn't loom so large...

To the OP, if it really worries you, go outside. No need to expend the energy worrying about something you can easily resolve. Kids give you so many things you can worry about. Save your energy for something bigger.

See, but that's the thing... it wasn't so easily resolved for me, because I want to spend that time inside, with my family, and not banished with my filthy habit. This IS the something bigger.

Just like with any other decision made by a parent, it should be an informed one, but once I satisfy myself regarding the risk or lack thereof with vaping - which, with the help of the kind contributors to this thread, I believe I have - I can have it all... and I believe I will. With tobacco smoke, it was never an issue, because there was no choice for me.

Although every now and then, Daddy still needs his alone time...

 

[ZambucaLu]

Even if you don't believe me, maybe you can agree that second hand e cig vapor is better for babies than smoke.

Well I definitely agree with this but here is the dilemma. My daughter is a chiropractor and also teaches nutrition/health/biology/physiology at a college where she lives. My grandson is 2...he sometimes sits on my lap. She is also due for a second one. This has obviously caused some concern with my vaping.

I really have no need to vape in that close proximity to any baby/child but my point is, am I really safe in quoting you, an MD, with "There is no second hand risk. None." when on the other hand you state "Clearly, there is not a study that specifically states...nicotine is safe...."

I don't vape anywhere near my grandson but I would love to be able to show her some definitive testing/research to support your stance that it's not harmful.

To me, I'd much rather hear someone say "There are no known risks" than there are no risks, without some type of documentation to that effect.

There truly would be nothing I would rather do than be able send her some links to support your assertion but no matter where I've turned, it seems there is no such evidence.

I do find it a bit distressing that so many are quick to aver there is no risk in second hand vapor when no one seems to be able to provide any proof of that...nor can I find any anywhere.

Again, when opinions are not drawn on fact then they are just that...opinions. And going back to my daughter and saying "Well most people believe second hand vapor is not harmful in any way" just isn't going to work....not with her anyway.

Lu

 

[Doc]

I really have no need to vape in that close proximity to any baby/child but my point is, am I really safe in quoting you, an MD, with "There is no second hand risk. None." when on the other hand you state "Clearly, there is not a study that specifically states...nicotine is safe...."

Lu

Lu, you are clearly an intelligent person. Please excuse my cavalier personality. You are correct in all that you have stated. I have 4 young kids also. The pc statement should have been no known risk however this does not express the confidence one should have concerning how low the known risk is concerning second hand exposure. There is an abundance of peripheral data, not only in the medical field, but in the field of physics and the nature of the mechanics of this type of vapor and the likelihood of any residual second hand vapor as compared to the heavy lingering of smoke's particulate matter.

A much bigger issue is the social ramifications of the young witnessing smoking type behavior. I understand your family's concern and there is no need to raise any question with them until you have the proof you need. Something must be telling you that e cigs are safer yet there is no one study to prove it. I think your skepticism is very scientific. I did not mean to discourage that philosophy. You have fortunate kids and grandkids.

 

[Momof3]

Well, you pegged me, this is my first... But the deep end behavior makes sense when you don't know what you're doing, and are afraid anything you do could break something they might need later, and if you have any more (which we won't), you're working with some experience, and everything you do doesn't loom so large...

Even with just the one, eventually you'll hit a point where you are less worried about you breaking something they might need later and more concerned with them breaking your stuff now. 8-o And FYI that checking to see if they're still breathing at night, well that one seems to stick.

Just like with any other decision made by a parent, it should be an informed one, but once I satisfy myself regarding the risk or lack thereof with vaping - which, with the help of the kind contributors to this thread, I believe I have - I can have it all... and I believe I will. With tobacco smoke, it was never an issue, because there was no choice for me.

And I think you've summed up Doc's point. There are many, many things in this world that we just have to take the facts available and reason out for ourselves. Find me one study/expert that says this or that and I'll find you one that refutes it. As I often have to remind my children in regards to other's, I'm not his/her parent. I make my rules/decisions for mine and whether or not I agree with another parent, I always respect their right to do the same for theirs.

Although every now and then, Daddy still needs his alone time...

 

[Sir_Puffalot]

I think TBob posted that the vapor leaves a residue on computer monitors, so I've been purposely blowing my vape at my monitor to see what kind of residue it leaves. I'm starting to think that the amount of nicotine transferred by the vapor isn't very high and that whatever is in the vapor is absorbed by all the mucous membranes in our mouth and throat in addition to our lungs, just like smoke.

Anyone know any more on this? I pretty near exclusively vape infront of my monitor and I`ve also noticed specks of hard residue building up on the monitors glass front. It`s almost glue like that needs a nail to scratch it off

It could be coincidence but it`s not as bad now I`ve switched to a VG based liquid.