Any type of guidance

[chopsuey1562]

So since e cig are fairly new is there any rules and regulations out for them yet? idk if they have updated the AFI to include PVs. I still feel strange vaping in a vehicle while people are around sometimes ill just take a quick puff and hold it in so no one sees any vape coming out. Its kinda wierd my first shop super was fine with me vaping in the shop I even had a puff in front of my commander and first shirt and they were kinda like are you crazy then i explained it to them and they said it was a good idea. Once he retired though the new guy in charge told me no more he didnt like it. It was wierd though cause he dips around the shop (clearly against AFI) but when i take a toke hes up in arms.

 

[lorikay13]

This is based soley on what I have been told by military customers.....so I am NOT saying it is necessarily correct.....but what I have heard is that IF one is on the battlefield....light restrictions are a problem. The workaround for this is a piece of duct or electrical tape over the led end of the ecig.

 

[Para]

I would just stealth vape until you get to know the new boss a little better. Talking to him might change his point of view about ecigs.

 

[Klaven911]

Lol. Amusing how the double standard applies eh? Truthfully though whether its dip or vaping, its unprofessional. I would just take a vape break and head outside. As far as AFI's go, there typically isn't specific guidance but I would follow your basic common sense...no walking and vaping in uniform, vape in designated smoking areas, etc.

A good way to check if they have updated AFI's is to read them. Relying off information shared by complete strangers in a forum that is shared by all branches of service isn't a good idea. Not that anyone would purposefully try to give you wrong information, but me personally...if I was concerned I would look it up because misguided information can affect your career. Doubtful that the AFI specifically addresses PV's, but they can't cover everything in the world ya know....they would be ridiculously long. Just do it smart and you should be fine.

 

[slantdeyevision]

Just vape outside and stealth vape... I stealth vape in my bathroom just so I don't bring any unwanted attention to what I'm doing. I work at BDE level so their is alot of brass around.

It is clearly going to be up to your 1st Line and whoever is in charge of you though, so if he says that he doesn't like it don't do it. I would think he would be more accepting of the fact that your not smoking analogs since he dips but that doesn't seem to be the case.

I wouldn't bring up any regulations that goes against what he tells you unless he is by the book and will take heed to what the reg says.

SSG DJ

 

[oldsoldier]

Lol. Amusing how the double standard applies eh? Truthfully though whether its dip or vaping, its unprofessional. I would just take a vape break and head outside. As far as AFI's go, there typically isn't specific guidance but I would follow your basic common sense...no walking and vaping in uniform, vape in designated smoking areas, etc.

A good way to check if they have updated AFI's is to read them. Relying off information shared by complete strangers in a forum that is shared by all branches of service isn't a good idea. Not that anyone would purposefully try to give you wrong information, but me personally...if I was concerned I would look it up because misguided information can affect your career. Doubtful that the AFI specifically addresses PV's, but they can't cover everything in the world ya know....they would be ridiculously long. Just do it smart and you should be fine.

@ Klaven: Pretty solid advice. I retired as an E7 and have worked on military installations on and off since I retired. Its good to see someone give advice thats not the "....house lawyer" version.

@ the OP: Truth be told even if the AFI doesn't expressly forbid using your PV there are a ton of ways your supervisor can enforce it's non use. The UCMJ always favors those in charge/command. With that said, if you play it smart and use it in the same manner as you would an analog there is very little short of a direct and probably unlawful order that they can do to make you stop. If you've been in the service any length of time I don't need to explain to you that if he REALLY wants to make it tough on you he will take it out on you in other ways not related to using your PV.

In addition to the AFIs you need to consider other safety related concerns if you are working in a hangar, on the flightline, or in a shop. Anyplace you can't smoke or that requires explosion proof flashlights is a place you better not vape

Oh and I was in the Army, I spent the last 18 years of my Army career as an aviator, several of those years were on joint assignments on AFBs, Jojnt Bases, and LPHs. My advice is based off lots of experience with the UCMJ, plus lots of time spent with Chief Master Sergeant's, Chief Petty Officers and a few Master Gunnery Sergeants. And I would allow my troops to use a PV anywhere that was safe, but thats just me. Hell I wish we had PVs in those days.

 

[Klaven911]

I found a *little* guidance on the portal as I was checking on some stuff today...turns out the AF classifies it as a tobacco product so it is only supposed to be used in "designated tobacco use areas" Search the title "Electronic Cigarettes: Risky Business" and you should be able to see what I saw. Doesn't say much but hey...its a start? lol.

Oldsoldier has some good points in regards to UCMJ and such...I didn't think to tell you that, but he is spot on. It is really up to those in your chain to decide whether it is acceptable or not. Talk it over with your Supervisor, have him/her run it up the chain and see what he comes back with. If you handle it right you might be pleased with the answer, but there is always the chance that you wont.

If your looking for regs to say *BLAMO* it says I can right here that I can do this or that, it isnt a good approach. Put yourself in thier shoes. As you grow through the ranks would you want your subordinates questioning and fighting everything you say/do? For sure there are instances were it is required, but common sense is your most valuable tool! Use it, too few do these days.

 

[oldsoldier]

If your looking for regs to say *BLAMO* it says I can right here that I can do this or that, it isnt a good approach. Put yourself in thier shoes. As you grow through the ranks would you want your subordinates questioning and fighting everything you say/do? For sure there are instances were it is required, but common sense is your most valuable tool! Use it, too few do these days.

/amen
@ the OP: It is really important to choose your fights wisely. That Commander that is a PITA will be gone sooner or later, but those E7-E9s will see you more and probably be your boss again in the future. Best of luck with your supervisor and even if they don't rule in your favor - you will have at least planted the idea and given them some knowledge. Things can take a long time to change in the Military; but with time and knowledge, the attitude toward PVs will change.

 

[HzG8rGrl]

If there is a smoking restriction, then take it as a vaping restriction. I see no reason to push boundaries. You didn't do it with cigarettes, so why do it with a pv.
I know they say/advertise that they can be used anywhere, This just isn't true. There are smoking rules in place and we are accustomed to those rules. Stick to the smoking rules and all will be fine.
The more we try to push vaping on others the more they will push back.

 

[cheymike]

Hi all. Retired USAF MSgt/First Sergeant here. Good advice about not pushing limits or bucking the system too hard. It will only lead to heartache. One thing though... I would somehow make SURE word got up the chain (anonymously) about that supervisor taking his dips. Double standards exist but that doesn't make them right and they undermine the "good order and discipline" of the services as much as anything does. Perhaps a pic taken with a cell phone and emailed from a ghost account ???? *chuckles*

 

[ID510]

Long ago, an old MSgt uttered these words "Better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission".

 

[kornesque]

Here's CG guidance...same as above, except they cited the FDA. That's the best they could come up with? Then they offer us a website. "SN Billybob, go clean the paint locker.". There's NO way vaping could be worse for you than that, and I get the blinks just checking it during my rounds.

The logic followed is flawed as all get up. "Treat vaporizers like any other tobacco product (even though they don't necessarily contain nicotine...at least that's MY goal), but chew the gum and wear the patch wherever. They're FDA approved and don't resemble an analog."

They're ignorant, but the .gov being what it is will follow it's own. FDA...pshaw!

R 121804Z OCT 10

ALCOAST 492/10
COMDTNOTE 6100
SUBJ: NEW ON-LINE TOBACCO CESSATION PROGRAMS AND E-CIGARETTES
A. COAST GUARD HEALTH PROMOTION MANUAL, COMDTINST M6200.1(SERIES)
B. COAST GUARD WEIGHT AND BODY FAT STANDARDS PROGRAM MANUAL,
COMDTINST M1020.8(SERIES)
1. THIS MSG ANNOUNCES THE RELEASE OF THE NEW TOBACCO CESSATION WEB
SITE Quit Smoking Facts, Effects of Cigarettes Smoking, Chewing Tobacco at Quit Tobacco—Make Everyone Proud. THIS SITE IS FREE FOR ALL:
A. ACTIVE DUTY AND RESERVE PERSONNEL
B. FAMILY MEMBERS OF ACTIVE DUTY AND RESERVE PERSONNEL
C. CIVILIAN EMPLOYEES
D. RETIREES AND VETERANS
2. THIS SITE HAS MANY PROGRAMS TO HELP COAST GUARD MEMBERS QUIT
TOBACCO PRODUCTS:
A. OPTIONS TO CREATE YOUR OWN QUIT PLAN, QUIT CALENDAR, AND QUIT
BLOG.
B. ON-LINE ASSISTANCE, CHAT LIVE, ONE-ON-ONE, WITH A TRAINED
TOBACCO CESSATION COACH FROM 0800 TO 2200 EST.
C. SUPPORT INFORMATION ABOUT DIFFERENT KINDS OF MEDICINES TO HELP
YOU QUIT.
D. VIDEO MESSAGES FROM MASTER CHIEF LEAVITT ON TOBACCO PRODUCTS.
E. FREE MATERIALS SUCH AS POSTERS, POSTCARDS, AND DVDS TO USE IN
YOUR SMOKING CESSATION PROGRAMS.
F. FACEBOOK PAGES, MYSPACE AND TWITTER FOR MORE ON-LINE SUPPORT.
3. THE FOLLOWING ARE REMINDERS CONCERNING COAST GUARD TOBACCO POLICY:
A. MEMBERS CONSIDERING NICOTINE REPLACEMENT THERAPY (NRT) SHOULD
CONSULT THEIR MILITARY PRIMARY CARE MANAGER OR HEALTH, SAFETY, AND
WORK-LIFE PHARMACY OFFICER ON HOW TO OBTAIN NRT PRODUCTS. THE COST
OF NRT PRODUCTS PURCHASED AT A LOCAL PHARMACY WILL NOT BE REIMBURSED
TO THE MEMBER.
B. AVIATION PERSONNEL SHALL CONSULT THEIR FLIGHT SURGEON BEFORE
TAKING ANY NRT PRODUCTS.
C. MEMBERS WHO ARE CONSIDERING QUITTING TOBACCO PRODUCTS, BUT ARE
AFRAID OF BECOMING OUT OF COMPLIANCE WITH THE WEIGHT STANDARDS SHOULD
CONSULT REF B FOR THE TOBACCO CESSATION EXCEPTION.
4. ELECTRONIC CIGARETTES (E-CIGARETTES) ALSO KNOWN AS E-CIGS ARE
BATTERY OPERATED DEVICES THAT DELIVER NICOTINE VIA A VAPOR. THESE
PRODUCTS ARE NOT REGULATED BY THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION AND
ARE NOT CONSIDERED A SMOKING CESSATION AID. NICOTINE IS VERY
ADDICTIVE AND POTENTIALLY VERY DANGEROUS WITH POSSIBLE SIDE EFFECTS
SUCH AS HEADACHES, INCREASED STRESS, AND INCREASED BLOOD PRESSURE
WHICH CAN LEAD TO OTHER MORE SERIOUS PROBLEMS. E-CIGARETTES SHALL BE
TREATED LIKE ANY OTHER TOBACCO PRODUCT CONTAINING NICOTINE, AS
OUTLINED IN REF A, AND SHALL ONLY BE USED IN DESIGNATED SMOKING
AREAS.
5. I REALIZE HOW HARD IT IS TO QUIT TOBACCO USE. I ENCOURAGE COMMANDS
TO SUPPORT MEMBERS WHO ATTEMPT TO QUIT AND STRONGLY RECOMMEND THAT
ANYONE WHO USES TOBACCO OR NICOTINE PRODUCTS TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THESE
SERVICES.
6. POC FOR THIS PROGRAM IS MR. TIM MERRELL 202-475-5146,
TIMOTHY.M.MERRELL(AT)USCG.MIL.
7. RADM MARK TEDESCO, DIRECTOR OF HEALTH, SAFETY, AND WORK-LIFE,
SENDS.
8. INTERNET RELEASE IS AUTHORIZED.

 

[LEDshine]

HOAH, I am an Active Army SFC, Working in TRADOC so here is the low down skinny for all Army Guys and it should apply for our other brothers in arms. Electric Cigarettes (whether they have nicotine or not) when considered for the areas of use are a tobacco related product and should only be used in areas designated tobacco use areas.

In the case of PV use it is always better to ask you local OIC/NCOIC what they think about it prior to assuming that you can use them anywhere. You may be surprised when they say just keep it private behind closed doors as they do in many cases with dippers. Then it is your responsibility not to abuse your newly afforded privilege.

 

[soulkeeper]

Cigs, dipping and e-cigs (classified as tobacco product in AF now) are to only be used in designated smoking locations (smoke pits).

That’s what I tell my troops and that’s what my boss tells me, there is a AFI somewhere that states that E-cigs are considered tobacco products, they sent it in a e-mail a long long time ago, but have no idea what that AFI was or where to find it.

 

[soulkeeper]

2.2. NICOTINE REPLACEMENT PRODUCTS. Used in treating nicotine addiction are allowed in work spaces as long as they do not emit any smoke, fumes or vapors that would be in violation of AFI48-145, Occupational and Environmental Health Program

this was in the tobacco AFI 40-102

only thing i could find in the AFIs that they could possibly hold you to.