Anyone know about other wire to use for DNA40 other than nickel?

[invisiblehand13]

Okay, so I have decided that me and nickel are breaking up, yes...I know it has a learning curve and once you get it down it will all be okay...I have heard all that and I don't care for it and that's that. I refuse to believe that there is no other wire out there that could be used other than nickel and titanium grade 1. So I have some titanium grade 1 ordered and already possess the graphs necessary to make the temp settings what they would be with nickel wire, that is not really my question here...my question is that since we already know that there is one other viable option and we have already mapped the differences (and yes, I know that potentially there is a +/- accuracy of 20 degrees with the titanium as opposed to +/- of only 10 degrees with ni200) BUT there HAS to be other viable options and one thing I was interested in experimenting with is sterling silver...I need to do some serious research into the chemical composition of silver (and the resistance may be potentially too low for our uses, I dunno yet though) and possibly some other well conducting purer metals that would have resistance that changes just like nickel and titanium...all of this being said (lol) I am very interested in anyone's idea's or thoughts or theories and such and see where this leads (potentially nowhere is a possibility )

 

[invisiblehand13]

was hoping for some idea's at least....grrrr

 

[twgbonehead]

tungsten, zinc, iron.

 

[invisiblehand13]

tungsten, zinc, iron.

What about niobium? That's supposed to be close to titanium too right?

 

[drunkenbatman]

Unobtanium?

My understanding is the software is using a lookup table to measure resistance changes in the wire which it can correlate with the temp of the wire as it gets hotter and colder, and nickel has a pretty high temp/resistance ratio besides being widely available in various sizes. Because that sounds like gibberish, most metals when you heat them up increase in resistance. How much is their "temperature coefficient of resistance/resistivity."

Since the software is calibrated towards nickel, while titanium is you mentioned it'll be ~20% off. If you check out this table "Resistivity and conductivity of various materials" and see Nickel's coefficient and then compare against others, you'll get the idea:

Electrical resistivity and conductivity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Titanium is missing, but my notes say it's .0038, the same as lithium. I'm pretty sure you aren't interested in vaping lithium wire, and silver might be close, but as you mentioned then you're running into conductivity issues let alone what their software would do (I don't know).

The temp control was and is a great idea when people were talking about it several years ago, but it's in a bit of a messy state and a lot of things are far from ideal -- you definitely aren't the only one who's already over nickel.

 

[twgbonehead]

One thing I always worried about with higher-tempco wires is that it seems to me this would cause more hot-spots. (or worse hot-spots).

As one section of the wire heats up, it's resistance rises, causing the dissipation in that section of wire to go up (assuming you're running VW). It seems like the power dissipation would tend to get concentrated in these "runaway" spots..... The higher the tempco, the worse the problem.....

 

[twgbonehead]

DB have you ever found a temperature coefficient for stainless steel (at least one alloy of it)?

 

[drunkenbatman]

Why yes! From my notes, which I'm sure I swiped from somewhere:

Stainless steel (74% iron + 18% chromium + 8% nickel): .00094

Carbon Steel (99% Iron, 1% Carbon): .005

High Silicon Steel (96% Iron, 4% Silicon): .002

There's a few other 0.001-.002 blends if iron/nickel/aluminum/etc in my notes like Invar, Alnico I, Iron Alloy 142, etc. Brass has the same resistance as nickel and is only .002, but I don't know about that....

 

[invisiblehand13]

Sterling silver has spiked my interest and I already have stainless steel but give me five minutes and I will tell you if that works or not, I am not sure if I would feel safe vaping on silver though, thoughts batman?

 

[invisiblehand13]

Why yes! From my notes, which I'm sure I swiped from somewhere:

Stainless steel (74% iron + 18% chromium + 8% nickel): .00094

Carbon Steel (99% Iron, 1% Carbon): .005

High Silicon Steel (96% Iron, 4% Silicon): .002

There's a few other 0.001-.002 blends if iron/nickel/aluminum/etc in my notes like Invar, Alnico I, Iron Alloy 142, etc. Brass has the same resistance as nickel and is only .002, but I don't know about that....

psss...still there?

 

[drunkenbatman]

Sterling silver has spiked my interest and I already have stainless steel but give me five minutes and I will tell you if that works or not, I am not sure if I would feel safe vaping on silver though, thoughts batman?

My pals call me db. If you mean like... byproducts of heating it with eliquid? I'm too wonky at the moment to go down the path of thinking about it. However, considering you want a resistance wire...

Resistivity (Ohm/mil-foot)
Stainless Steel: 440
Titanium: 259
Iron: 58.5
Nickel: 42
Copper: 10.2
Silver: 9.65

Copper is used for semi-conductor interconnects for a reason, so your coil might be a bit large in many atomizers. But if you build your silver coil and have it hooked up to a bank of car batteries I should probably look into eliquid effects.

*gives the horns*

 

[invisiblehand13]

so I just made a 316l coil and it works fine with tc, I may be wrong but I could have sworn alot of people said that this would NOT work, although I did notice that at 240 it does singe cotton so tried 210 and not problems, slight singeing at 220 and 230 so I feel like THIS is a metal that you must cut in half for the temp functions and titanium is 300 so about 2/3 of what it is with nickel...now I am kind of kicking myself but I have 200 feet of titanium incoming so more testing coming with that and I still want to try silver, that sounds fun actually lol

 

[invisiblehand13]

My pals call me db. If you mean like... byproducts of heating it with eliquid? I'm too wonky at the moment to go down the path of thinking about it. However, considering you want a resistance wire...

Resistivity (Ohm/mil-foot)
Stainless Steel: 440
Titanium: 259
Iron: 58.5
Nickel: 42
Copper: 10.2
Silver: 9.65

Copper is used for semi-conductor interconnects for a reason, so your coil might be a bit large in many atomizers. But if you build your silver coil and have it hooked up to a bank of car batteries I should probably look into eliquid effects.

*gives the horns*

I have been considering a 12 volt at home setup for clouds...not too redick or anything but something to show off when I am "drunkn" lol, still don't know if I want to build and test something at 12 volts holding it up to my face though....jury is out at the moment

 

[invisiblehand13]

P.S.- Titanium still a go due to 316l switching back to voltage...this is interesting, I used it on two different builds and it WAS working on BOTH, now that I have the builds in place and went to go relax on the couch now they are both back to a voltage setting...hmmm...I don't know why they did that but now that they are "broken in" they are both NOT working with tc...oh well, titanium in excess is incoming

 

[twgbonehead]

Look, you can't use silver! It's extremely conductive (very very low resistance) and it's the resistance that generates the heat.
Well, never say "can't" but you're going to have REAL problems getting a coil of any reasonable size and gauge to actually work.

But very cool, the experiments with the 316l!!! Maybe you'll get it to work with a little tweaking! (Did you just happen to have some on hand?)

 

[drunkenbatman]

Handy, don't make us stage an intervention about this silver thing, as by your posts you'd take more sedatives than I can get my hands on.

Really interesting info on the wire though -- a negative result is still a really valuable result.

*gives the horns*

 

[invisiblehand13]

Look, you can't use silver! It's extremely conductive (very very low resistance) and it's the resistance that generates the heat.
Well, never say "can't" but you're going to have REAL problems getting a coil of any reasonable size and gauge to actually work.

But very cool, the experiments with the 316l!!! Maybe you'll get it to work with a little tweaking! (Did you just happen to have some on hand?)

Yeah I had some 316l laying around from when I found out that was what gplat was (or maybe 317l but whatevs lol) and I used it for a few of my comp builds but I have kind of fallen out of the cloud blowing thing (for now, another big comp and I may get back into it, plus I have alot of mechs feeling VERY neglected lately) and about the silver thing....don't tell me something is dangerous...it's not the way to get me to NOT do it but I may just stick to the titanium depending on the results I end up getting with it so don't fret...unless I find titanium unsatisfactory that is....

 

[invisiblehand13]

Handy, don't make us stage an intervention about this silver thing, as by your posts you'd take more sedatives than I can get my hands on.

Really interesting info on the wire though -- a negative result is still a really valuable result.

*gives the horns*

It's "downers" not "sedatives man!!!! jk jk (maybe) and I will be making a post hopefully saturday night about my findings with titanium (assuming usps delivers as expected, no need of Icey repeats here lol...wait, he didn't even do that review, he said they "lost" it to get out of it I think) but I had high hopes with the 316l but maybe some tweaks are in order...in any case I am no longer in the coiling mood...maybe a couple "dranks" can fix that though lol, if there is need of the intervention with the silver you will be the first to know db...handy...lol, that is a new one, the first one was invisy...don't know which is better, oh well...I think I have a sterling silver necklace around here somewhere...hmmm

 

[invisiblehand13]

Yeah I had some 316l laying around from when I found out that was what gplat was (or maybe 317l but whatevs lol) and I used it for a few of my comp builds but I have kind of fallen out of the cloud blowing thing (for now, another big comp and I may get back into it, plus I have alot of mechs feeling VERY neglected lately) and about the silver thing....don't tell me something is dangerous...it's not the way to get me to NOT do it but I may just stick to the titanium depending on the results I end up getting with it so don't fret...unless I find titanium unsatisfactory that is....

In theory I could make a 60mm device for a silver coil to work...(I looked at that resistance chart and holy crap that is SUPER low) but mayber 60mm would only be enough room for a single coil???

 

[dlipford370]

You ever get the titanium delivered? How'd it work? As far as silver goes, you could get it to make a coil. Just going to have to make a lot of twist. Very interested in what you've found. As for your 316l jumping back into volts, from temperature mode, it may be other things than the material. What atty were you using? Some are prone to not solid connections so could be that. I doubt you would use your lemo for experiements like these, but when I use my lemo with temp control, it hops back and forth from voltage to temp way too often. (It's the wonky 510 connection it has). Let me know what you find, thanks!