Article in local paper

[jennlsnoopy]

This article was in my local paper this morning. Talks about the e-cig.

Makers of E-cigarettes promise a healthier way to smoke | Spokesman.com | Sep 29, 2009

 

[jennlsnoopy]

Oh. Looks like someone already posted this article from thier paper. Sorry.

 

[Mo JJC]

Thats Ok, I missed the first one and dug it off your post

 

[bassn99]

I wish every article would stop quoting the FDA's mis-information. It's like they are the absolute authorities and can do and tell no wrong. SInce When?

 

[jennlsnoopy]

I know. I hate when they twist the information around. I also think it's interesting that they are always using the "antifreeze" thing in the articles I read. I may be wrong, but I thought PG was put in antifreeze to make it LESS toxic.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

jennlsnoopy -

We were just talking about it in another thread today... http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-tyler-cbs-news-spread-more-fear-tonight.html (Nestran has some good words on the whole thing) the fact that PG is put into antifreeze to make it less toxic... and actually, it is used in food processing plants, home type situations that would call for antifreeze and antifreeze with PG is less likely to be found in vehicles.

You are not wrong and recently, I just read a study from the EPA that notes, in a nutshell, that they would rather see PG used as it dissipates extremely quickly and is basically non-toxic to the environment. The green movement is slowly moving us towards a less toxic world...

 

[dragonpuff]

I'm gonna say the same thing i said about the article in the other post:

I love how this article begins and ends with consumer's experiences! The words most likely to be remembered in any article are the first and the last, and this article definitely leaves a great impression

I wouldn't worry too much about double-threading this one, it deserves the extra attention!

Mo, do you have a digg link?

 

[misterME]

I know. I hate when they twist the information around. I also think it's interesting that they are always using the "antifreeze" thing in the articles I read. I may be wrong, but I thought PG was put in antifreeze to make it LESS toxic.

The article isn't claiming that PG is the toxic substance also found in anti-freeze. It specifically calls out diethylene glycol, which is toxic to humans. I believe it was found in one of SE's cartridges that the FDA examined.

Because of the similar-sounding "propylene glycol" and "diethylene glycol" (presumably because they both have the word "glycol" in them), the findings have been misrepresented in a lot of articles and interviews, stating that PG is the dangerous ingredient found in the FDA's studies.

What makes it worse is the anti-freeze confusion. Some toxic anti-freeze solutions contain diethylene glycol. Non-toxic (or less-toxic) anti-freeze solutions contain PG instead. It lowers the toxicity and makes the substance less environmentally harmful.

While PG is not dangerous, and is actually FDA approved for use in foods and drugs, the diethylene glycol is toxic. It is the finding of that in their tests that gives the FDA ammo for its current campaign.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

I know this is a double post but as there are two threads discussing PG/DEG etc... I pulled this article from the time machine this morning and thought it was a great point that VocalEK made in her article and should be on our minds when DEG is being discussed:

Is tobacco safer than electronic cigarettes? - by Elaine Keller - Helium

"The e-cigarette cartridges tested by the FDA can hold between 0.5 and 1 ml of liquid. The FDA testing found 1% DEG in one of the cartridges. It would take 100 of the 1 ml cartridges or 200 of the 0.5 ml cartridges to yield 1 ml of DEG. Therefore a 150-pound user would have to consume between 6800 and 13600 cartridges in a single day to take in a toxic level of DEG. On average, an e-cigarette user consumes one cartridge per day."

 

[jennlsnoopy]

The article isn't claiming that PG is the toxic substance also found in anti-freeze. It specifically calls out diethylene glycol, which is toxic to humans. I believe it was found in one of SE's cartridges that the FDA examined.

Because of the similar-sounding "propylene glycol" and "diethylene glycol" (presumably because they both have the word "glycol" in them), the findings have been misrepresented in a lot of articles and interviews, stating that PG is the dangerous ingredient found in the FDA's studies.

What makes it worse is the anti-freeze confusion. Some toxic anti-freeze solutions contain diethylene glycol. Non-toxic (or less-toxic) anti-freeze solutions contain PG instead. It lowers the toxicity and makes the substance less environmentally harmful.

While PG is not dangerous, and is actually FDA approved for use in foods and drugs, the diethylene glycol is toxic. It is the finding of that in their tests that gives the FDA ammo for its current campaign.

I see what you mean. That could get really confusing. It's too bad that a company had to use diethylene glycol and give the FDA this "ammo" because most companies out there do not use that.

When I tell people about the e-cig for the first time and tell them whats in it I sometimes get "oh, propylene glycol is in antifreeze." That right there can scare someone away. I guess they figure if it's in antifreeze then it must be bad. I've been telling them that its put in antifreeze to make it less toxic, and I was hoping I was giving acurate information.

I'm so happy for once in the last 13 years I acually feel healthy and am not coughing all the time. Me and my husband are always saying "its a miracle!"

 

[Dredbull]

I agree it is a miracle! a freaking act of god!

My co workers, family, and friends are all braced for me to go insane.. Not even close I am at peace and content, smelling good and feeling better. I feel for the people who have made the choice of going the BP route, and am very worried for them it may not be the right choice. The press should do an article about the adverse reactions to Zyban and Chantix.. I have seen a few people go down the chantix path and wound up doing some pretty drastic stuff.

 

[jennlsnoopy]

For sure! Some of those drugs out there are scary. With the e-cig I tell people to give it a couple of days. For me I was fine right away, but there are others that have to get used to it, since it is a little different. I just love how you get the same feeling as an analog, but you don't have the smokey taste (which the thought of it becomes disgusting after a while) and also the smell. I now smell like bubble gum and my husband smells like vanilla. Yum!

 

[LaceyUnderall]

I now smell like bubble gum and my husband smells like vanilla. Yum!

Vanilla is a natural aphrodisiac so if you thought he was attractive before and smelled good as a smoker... be careful!!!!

 

[jennlsnoopy]

Vanilla is a natural aphrodisiac so if you thought he was attractive before and smelled good as a smoker... be careful!!!!

News Story: The e-cig and vanilla flavoring....great for marriages!

 

[misterME]

I agree it is a miracle! a freaking act of god!

My co workers, family, and friends are all braced for me to go insane.. Not even close I am at peace and content, smelling good and feeling better. I feel for the people who have made the choice of going the BP route, and am very worried for them it may not be the right choice. The press should do an article about the adverse reactions to Zyban and Chantix.. I have seen a few people go down the chantix path and wound up doing some pretty drastic stuff.

I tried the Chantix several years ago when my ex-wife and I became pregnant (well, she wasn't my ex then, and she was way more pregnant than I was). It worked very well at first; I kicked analogs to the curb after about a week and half of being on the drug.

Flash forward to three months later. My daily ritual at work was to show up and spend my first hour or two yelling at my employees for the dumbest stuff. I actually fired someone who'd been working with me for two years for insubordination, and I can't for the life of me remember what they did (probably nothing). When my assistant came to me and had a heart-to-heart about how much of a raging bear I had become, I quit the Chantix cold-turkey (which was itself a mistake; I was unable to function for almost two weeks). And I picked up cigarettes again right after.

With e-cigs, I haven't had any of the symptoms of withdrawal. The only time I've backslid into smoking was when my first atty died before my replacements came in.

This stuff is a wonder-drug. For now.

 

[HaploVoss]

Ok, I tried Chantix... under the supervision of my neurologist. There was the added issue of my epilepsy medications and possible conflicts, etc. etc. Well let me tell you. There were conflicts. I was on Chantix for a total of three weeks. The first one wasn't too bad, didn't really notice much. The second was when the nightmares started, and the third week was when I called my doctor because I was having horrific, I mean awful nasty indescribable nightmares about losing my mind and killing those around me.

I am serious. Me of all people. Other than that one and a half weeks of horror, I've never even had a thought or dream of hurting anyone just for the heck of it much less *killing* anybody!! I mean holy crap!! I literally felt like I was losing my mind!

So one night I called the emergency number and told Doc that it was getting worse and I was sure it was related to the Chantix. He took me off of it. Within 3 days the anxiety and dreams stopped. Within 3 days after that I had caught back up on sleep and everything was back to normal - except I was back to smoking of course.

Sorry, but I am a firm believer that Chantix, and many other drugs that work on the same premise are *worse* for you than smoking or whatever they are trying to cure. Maybe they do help a small percentage of the population I suppose, but I don't know if that outweighs how many lives they take / destroy.

- Hap

 

[MrKai]

"The e-cigarette cartridges tested by the FDA can hold between 0.5 and 1 ml of liquid. The FDA testing found 1% DEG in one of the cartridges. It would take 100 of the 1 ml cartridges or 200 of the 0.5 ml cartridges to yield 1 ml of DEG. Therefore a 150-pound user would have to consume between 6800 and 13600 cartridges in a single day to take in a toxic level of DEG. On average, an e-cigarette user consumes one cartridge per day."

This quote is misleading on several levels and is why we must be *ever vigilant* against confirmation bias.

DEG is NOT allowed by US Code in any food or drug due to its toxicity. The amount percentage found, as quoted, is 5X the maximum allowed, at .2% and this is mixed with another glycol.

The fact that any DEG was found at all is a serious matter and trivializing it makes us seem disingenuous.

On the other hand, because it was found in what amounts to statistical noise in this dataset it is a leap for FDA to have made the pronouncement it did in the way it was done.

-K

 

[LaceyUnderall]

This quote is misleading on several levels and is why we must be *ever vigilant* against confirmation bias.

DEG is NOT allowed by US Code in any food or drug due to its toxicity. The amount percentage found, as quoted, is 5X the maximum allowed, at .2% and this is mixed with another glycol.

The fact that any DEG was found at all is a serious matter and trivializing it makes us seem disingenuous.

On the other hand, because it was found in what amounts to statistical noise in this dataset it is a leap for FDA to have made the pronouncement it did in the way it was done.

-K

VocalEK would need to argue for her numbers...

I do not disagree with you that DEG found causes concerns as it is something that can and should be totally avoided and your last comment regarding the FDA is right on base.

However, I would like to point you to this: Powered by Google Docs http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...v/downloads/Drugs/.../Guidances/ucm070347.pdf

According to this FDA document, DEG IS allowable to .1% when mixed with other glycerins. So while it appears that Vocals .2% might be off... she again could probably defend where that number came from.

EDIT: Last thought: There is no reason for DEG to be in any eLiquid and should definitely be an industry standard going forward.