Aspire official statement on Atlantis coils material

[blusean]

wow. awesome,
is it mean that we can bought a bomb? then shout "fire in the hole". lol

 

[Katya]

Ease up on the eggnog, Kitty?

 

[The Ocelot]

Aspire has provided an explanation and even provided a detailed diagram as what is inside the head and how it works.
The vapor is coming off the organic cotton. Yet people are still worried about vaping off the ceramic paper.
I have seen pictures of the coil/materials looking like hell. The cotton burnt through. But also I bet these same people vaped the crap out of the coil at 30-40 watts for more than a week.

Newsflash - Don't overvape on these coils at a high wattage. At 30 W and going through 5-7ml of eliquid on a daily basis, you won't get more than 3 days out of these coils. At 20 W about 5-6 days. I'm down to 22W instead of 30W. Got to make the sacrifice bc i'm not good at rebuilding and the coils are not the cheapest.

I don't think the point is how long the heads last, but rather how the components degrade.

 

[Katya]

I don't think the point is how long the heads last, but rather how the components degrade.

Right.

Not only that; Aspire specs for the Atlantis coils suggest the optimal wattage range of 20 to 30 watts. However, people are taking them all the way up to 50 and even 70 watts. And there are all kinds of tutorials on YouTube teaching people how to dry burn BVC coils.

 

[WharfRat1976]

I was following this thread when it was first posted and I have to say it made me a little nervous about the wicking material. I pulled the mesh screen off and looked inside and noticed a lot of charring, more than I would expect as the Atlantis is my least used tank (Reo/RM2 is #1 and the Protank2 with rebuilt coils is my stealth vaper). I have has the Atlantis shelved for a few days until I felt I could properly remedy the situation. So I just sat down and deconstructed the head- the wicking material was even nastier than I suspected- and rewicked with Koh Gen Do. I have to say I am very pleased with the results, great vapor, better flavor and feeling better about the wick has led to a more enjoyable vape. I imagine it would be fairly easy to most who rebuild coils frequently, I only ruined one coil in the process.

Did you make sure to remove ALL the other fill material in the head? Specifically the unknown sheath that covers the saturation holes?

 

[nopoison]

I don't think the point is how long the heads last, but rather how the components degrade.

I think it's more like eliminate the hazardous material and avoid the risk all together. How the hell could they knowingly put a hazardous material inside these things and expect perfect operation 100% of the time? It's like saying, "ok here is the best vaping experience you will ever have in your life, but be careful to follow instructions exactly to the T and have faith that nothing will EVER go wrong that might allow the deadly internal component to escape the device and enter your system." It's nonsense!

 

[Firecrow]

Aspire has provided an explanation and even provided a detailed diagram as what is inside the head and how it works.
The vapor is coming off the organic cotton. Yet people are still worried about vaping off the ceramic paper.
I have seen pictures of the coil/materials looking like hell. The cotton burnt through. But also I bet these same people vaped the crap out of the coil at 30-40 watts for more than a week.

Newsflash - Don't overvape on these coils at a high wattage. At 30 W and going through 5-7ml of eliquid on a daily basis, you won't get more than 3 days out of these coils. At 20 W about 5-6 days. I'm down to 22W instead of 30W. Got to make the sacrifice bc i'm not good at rebuilding and the coils are not the cheapest.

Not me. I leave my rDNA30 set between 11W-14W so whatever ohms law calculates out to is what I was using it at and still had those results.

 

[Rondo9]

Not me. I leave my rDNA30 set between 11W-14W so whatever ohms law calculates out to is what I was using it at and still had those results.

How long did you vape on it at 11-14 w before looking at the coil?

 

[Rondo9]

I don't think the point is how long the heads last, but rather how the components degrade.

But its a chain reaction some people are failing to recognize. The first few days you vape it at 30w, the cotton that is closest to the coil is going to work. So the material beside it (ceramic paper) is not being "fired" on. But when ppl take it over the limit(higher than 30w) or vape it too long, the cotton is going to burn through. Then they start worrying about something else other than the cotton burning.

The subtank is the same kind of deal. At 20 w you cant vape on it more than a week . maybe 4-5 days to be safe. Unless you want to inhale burnt cotton.

These coils are not "miracle" items that can last forever and take punishments without potential issues. The solution is replace the coils on a timely basis

 

[Topwater Elvis]

Not me. I leave my rDNA30 set between 11W-14W so whatever ohms law calculates out to is what I was using it at and still had those results.

The rdna30 doesn't down regulate output below battery voltage, you weren't vaping an Atlantis head at 11-14 w.
example;
4.2v /.5 = 35.28watts.
4v / .5 = 32watts.

 

[Firecrow]

The rdna30 doesn't down regulate output below battery voltage, you weren't vaping an Atlantis head at 11-14 w.
example;
4.2v /.5 = 35.28watts.
4v / .5 = 32watts.

Understood, it will go to ohms law. I was just identifying the setting. I switch between atomizers during the day that will vape at that level.

 

[WharfRat1976]

My letter:

Allen Liu, CEO
Aspire
Building B3, Xin Hongtai Industry Park
Jian'an Road 14
Tangwei
Fuyong Town,Bao'an District
Shenzhen, China December 28, 2014

Dear Mr. Liu,

Thank you for the products Aspire makes in the e-cigarette industry. I have enjoyed your company’s products for over a year now and enjoy them almost daily. It must be greatly satisfying to you to know your company helps thousands of people to quit smoking.
I have a product inquiry, specifically regarding the Aspire Atlantis tank and specifically the atomizer. I purchased this tank about a month ago and I agree that the flavor and vapor production are a significant improvement on other refillable tanks.

I have a background in respiratory protection, so I am particularly interested in the products I use in my vaping past time as it pertains to my health. Once I use a product, I take it apart to see the state of the atomizer after its use. I would like to share with you what I found with the Aspire Atlantis BVC atomizer and ask you a few questions that you will hopefully be able to answer.

On the third page is a picture of the disassembled atomizer for your reference. Here is my use information below:

Vapor Device: VaporShark rDNA30
Mode & Power: Wattage, 11W-14W
Atomizer Use: Daily for 2 weeks
Number of refills: 5

You’ll note in the photograph areas of concern, specifically charring and missing material. Your undated release of information located on the Aspire Forums website, posted by Kiki Chan on August 6, 2014 addresses the construction, some materials and testing of the components of the Atlantis Atomizer in order to address “false information and rumors spread on the internet about our product.”. I appreciate that you shared this information with the community in order to assure your customers.

As you can see in the photograph, the cotton directly adjacent to the coil is completely thermally decomposed, exposing the ceramic wick. The document does not address the composition of the ceramic wick, only to say it was tested by SGS for specific toxins which are not present. Being in the business of e-cigarettes I am sure you feel you’ve chosen safe materials to construct the atomizer with, however, when materials thermally decompose, they undergo chemical changes as well as the release of byproducts of combustion. Since as you can see in the photograph the cotton separating the coil from the ceramic paper is completely burned away, exposing the high temperature coil, specifically 3 loops, direct to the ceramic paper, there was thermal decomposition present. Charring and missing materials confirms this.

In using the atomizer there was no indication of combustion in the temperature or taste of the vapor, other than the taste became flat. There was no burnt flavor, but the atomizer continued to produce vapor in the same quantity as before.

My concern is the nature of the ceramic paper under conditions of thermal decomposition which the SGS testing does not address. Since this ceramic paper is unique to your company and I understand the need to protect intellectual property, its specific composition is unstated anywhere. Further the SGS testing does not address failure of the cotton layer to protect the ceramic paper from 1) exposure, or 2) combustion.

The response to the community in the post on the forum refers to “as long as it is properly used and kept saturated during use, it will performed as designed.”

So my question, which is not answered anywhere in your available product documents is, how does Aspire define “designed use”? I used this at 11W-14W for 5 tank refills. I commonly rebuild Kayfun RTAs and use Kanthal wire and cotton and do not have thermal decomposition such as is evidenced in this photograph, so I have to presume it is different from your product – but I cannot find any recommendations anywhere.

My questions are as follows:
1. What is the recommended lifespan and wattage use for this product?
2. Is it acceptable to Aspire that the Atlantis atomizer fails to the point of thermal decomposition in this manner and can a fail safe be designed into it to alert the user that the atomizer has expired?
3. What byproducts of combustion have I been exposed to since the coil had direct contact with the heated coil?
4. Was I exposed to microparticles of ceramic paper because the wicking cotton layer burned away and does your company have health advice that I can seek with a respirologist?
5. What is the ceramic paper composed of so that I can reference its properties to my respirologist?

As in Kiki Chan’s reply, “Aspire will spend more time communicating with our customers and friends to further educate and actively listen to your feedback / recommendations to further develop safe, healthy products.” In that spirit I look forward to your recommendations to me regarding using your product as designed in a healthy manner.

Killer letter- I wonder if it gets a response.

 

[Steam Turbine]

I find it funny that people are worried about what happens to the ceramic when it thermally decompose but don't care about what's being released when the cotton char and decompose. Just because it's cotton doesn't mean it can't release toxic gases and other particles....

I dunno.... Just sayin...

 

[Katya]

I find it funny that people are worried about what happens to the ceramic when it thermally decompose but don't care about what's being released when the cotton char and decompose. Just because it's cotton doesn't mean it can't release toxic gases and other particles....

I dunno.... Just sayin...

I can't speak for others, but with BVC coils, I'm mainly concerned about loose fiberglass/ceramic particles getting into my lungs.

Burning filler, no matter what kind, is another story. I don't want to inhale smoke, period.

 

[Firecrow]

I clarified the wattage setting with Aspire:

(from me)

​The rNDA30 will automatically calculate the lowest setting for the atomizer based on ohms law and fire it at that wattage. So whatever your lowest setting is for the unit, that will be it. I've also confirmed my rDNA30 is working properly in this regard.

...and they replied thus far:

Dear Customer,
We learn from our battery engineer.
DNA30/40 is a kind of battery can automatically calculate the lowest setting for the atomizer based on ohms law and fire it at that wattage.
But when using this kind of battery,in order to get better accurate wattage,which need the material of the wire is full nickel,or nickel2100.
But the material of wire in our coil is not pure nickel or nickel2100,it is kanthal.
Have a nice day!

I've asked for further clarification.

 

[beckdg]

I'm curious if they'll figure out and let on about the Dna not down regulating.

Sent from my device.

 

[JayWer]

I find it funny that people are worried about what happens to the ceramic when it thermally decompose but don't care about what's being released when the cotton char and decompose. Just because it's cotton doesn't mean it can't release toxic gases and other particles....

I dunno.... Just sayin...

Simply a case of choosing the lesser of two evils till something new and more safe comes out.

 

[MrsMojoRisin]

I can't speak for others, but with BVC coils, I'm mainly concerned about loose fiberglass/ceramic particles getting into my lungs.

Burning filler, no matter what kind, is another story. I don't want to inhale smoke, period.

I agree, also, cotton under normal circumstances has telltale signs it is burning (dry hit/burnt hit/ general distaste in flavor and decreased vapor) that seems to be absent in the Aspire coils for some reason. I don't want to smoke cotton either but I can surely tell when I am.

 

[Firecrow]

I find it funny that people are worried about what happens to the ceramic when it thermally decompose but don't care about what's being released when the cotton char and decompose. Just because it's cotton doesn't mean it can't release toxic gases and other particles....

I dunno.... Just sayin...

I didn't wander into that mine field - somewhat unfair as cotton is commonly used by vapers in other applications and we can be exposed to it with other products. My focus of concern is really the 1) unknown material 2) why the atomizer broke down under what I thought were normal vaping conditions.

I am not ruling out that I used the atomizer wrong, I just don't see how. And this isn't a blame game, its a serious inquiry. I accept responsibility for my decision to purchase and use the product and the accompanying risks associated with that decision and vaping in general. But it doesn't preclude me from a line of inquiry regard the byproducts of unknown materials and the potential exposure which a responsible manufacturer should be able to disclose if indeed they are as thorough in their testing as their communications leads us to believe.

This is the "red pill". I seek the truth, nothing more.

 

[JayWer]

I am surprised Aspire even took the time to type up such a lengthy rebuttal. Typically in their support forum they like to copy and paste a response over and over whether it fits the issue someone has or not.