Aspire official statement on Atlantis coils material

[chargingcharlie]

Naturalistic fallacy- what's natural is inheritably safe, what's not natural is inheritably not safe or unhealthy....

The naturalistic fallacy is based more on the perceived desire and appeal of natural things. The fallacious appeal to nature is aimed more at the perceived safety of natural things. Tomato/Tomahto, IMO, but a lot of high falutin' scientists get irritated by those of us that confuse the two [emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[The Ocelot]

If you had one of those dogs with dread locks you may be on to something...

Nope, Border Collies. I like dogs that can play mind games.

 

[Lilvapie]

The naturalistic fallacy is based
more on the perceived desire and appeal of natural things. The fallacious appeal to nature is aimed more at the perceived safety of natural things. Tomato/Tomahto, IMO, but a lot of high falutin' scientists get irritated by those of us that confuse the two [emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Aww. Makes sense.

 

[stevegmu]

Nope, Border Collies. I like dogs that can play mind games.

I was once in Prague around Christmastime and a Modelesque Russian lady wearing a full mink coat exited the escalator from a metro station and promptly pulled out a teacup Daschund from her purse, who was wearing a matching full mink coat. The little dog peed on a lamp post and they carried on into the night. That was a mind trip...

 

[Ryedan]

I've been considering dog hair, since I have so much around. I often find it in my tanks and on my wicks anyway.

I used to use dog fur. It was really, really good. Then one day
<--- she started to avoid me when I approached her with scissors in my hand and that was the end of the dog fur


Now I use rayon ...

 

[Ryedan]

If it was a lead atomizer and the person wasn't forthcoming about any specific changes they made to make it safe... well it's a lead atomizer. If it was arsenic flavored ejiuce and the person wasn't forthcoming about how they made the arsenic inert, well it's arsenic flavored ejuice (would taste like almonds). If it's an atomizer using ceramic paper or fiberglass paper and the people aren't forthcoming about how and why it is safe -- and in fact *admit* it isn't safe under at least some circumstances -- well...

I get what you're trying to say about not jumping to conclusions, but that just isn't where we are here. The burden of proof for using something like that isn't on the people going "uhhhhh," and we're even well past that point.

A thousand times this

 

[Katya]

Welp, being the antsy person I am, and not having any japanese cotton. I went ahead and rebuilt the spare head that came with my tank with standard 100% organic cotton. Needless to say, it is vaping great!

Now then, I did notice something when taking apart the unused head. There are 2 separate sheets of stuff wrapping the coil. The outside layer looks like the stuff you all are worried about, but the material under it just looks like cotton. Have any of you taken a stock head apart and seen this as well?

View attachment 398493View attachment 398494

Interesting. That cotton wrap on the outside is clearly a new addition. It was not there when the coils were first introduced and people started complaining about the crumbling filler material. So the wrap is on the outside of the filler, but not on the inside--next to the coil, correct?



And Part 2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU9PlSfNWSs

No cotton in sight.

 

[Katya]

That ties in with something I was thinking about. The PDF I linked to earlier is in English. Is it possible that the name of the sample Aspire provided was mistranslated?

Anything is possible. However, it is my understanding that the certificate (now gone from their site) was issued by a Swiss-based lab in English. And it said "fiberglass." Aspire still claims that it's ceramic. Either way, neither is suitable for inhalation.

http://srs.unm.edu/industrial-hygiene/media/docs/silica.pdf

This is a fact--not a preconceived notion.

Unless Aspire has indeed invented a new form of fiberglass/ceramic. If so, I would love to learn more about it and perhaps send it to someone like Dr. Farsalinos for some tests.

 

[Katya]

afaik none of the wicking material used in vaping has been certified by any1 as safe to be used around a heating coil for atomizing liquids, and its pretty much guaranteed than "no" wicking material is safe to inhale if dryburned

Amorphous silica and and polyfill wraps (in cartomizers) have been studied and no dangerous emissions have been found. Check the Drexel study (there have been many others). CASAA website has links to other studies, too. Look at Dr. Farsalinos's studies, also.

 

[Katya]

I just got a new Toothbrush ..
Im concerned about the type of material the bristles are made from..
I contacted CVS and they gave me the run around...
Seems like they dont know or care about the....
Wait a minute...
Im on the wrong Forum!!

You should contact the manufacturer of your toothbrush. I'm sure they will be happy to give you all the information you want.

 

[Katya]

I just don't understand how someone can worry so much about a tiny swab of material that would literally take at least 5-20 years to affect your health,

Do you know something that we don't or are you just speculating, Charlie?

 

[Katya]

There is such a thing as safer vaping. I see many posts about people who simply don't care, whether it be this issue or the issues with custards. We do need lab rats, though, so I guess it is a good thing some simply don't care what they vape...

Yup. The most popular argument is "I smoked for 30 years and this can't be worse than smoking." The second one is accusing the OP of hysteria, fear-mongering and/or nitpicking. It happens on every thread and on every forum. I guess some vapers feel very protective of vaping and don't want it attacked or even questioned.

 

[Katya]

Trust me...I agree. That's partly why I won't go above 20W. I personally believe any more power than that is unnecessary and pointless.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Why 20 watts? It seems like an arbitrary number. OK, this is YOUR limit (self-imposed) and it's right for you. But not for others. I know people who vape (and do it safely and responsibly) at 50 and 70 watts. They need higher wattages to curb their urge to smoke. And I also know of other vapers who get nasty dry hits and inhale smoke at 8 watts, mostly because they are inexperienced or don't understand the limits of stock coils. We all make judgement calls and decisions based on what we know (or think we do). But a conversation is always good. An exchange of information is good.

You won't vape above 20 watts, I won't use coils stuffed with fiberglass. But we can still be friends, no?

Nothing personal, mind you.

 

[Katya]

Please don't accuse me of making a straw man argument, because my stance is far from it. Yes, ceramic fiber is a known carcinogen when inhaled. I never argued that. What I'm arguing is whether or not the ceramic fiber they use is a carcinogen when used in the way it's designed. And the same goes for cotton. I'm curious about how you feel about these studies that explain the health risks associated with the inhalation of cotton fibers and the smoke from burnt cotton (hint: both cause cancer)

Diffuse lung disease caused by cotton fibre inhalation
Thorax | Mobile

OK, now we're talking facts. "Cotton lung" is a very well-known disease of people who worked in cotton mills without respiratory protection in the past, but I always thought that that it was dry cotton "dust" that caused the disease. The cotton used in vaping doesn't seem to crumble and disintegrate like Aspire's fiberglass filler does, so I assumed it was OK to use in vaping. As a matter fact, if you wet a strip of Japanese cotton that we use for wicking, it becomes very strong, solid and almost unbreakable.

Impact ofCarbon Monoxide on CardiopulmonaryDysfunctionAfterSmoke Inhalation Injury
http://circres.ahajournals.org/content/66/1/69.full.pdf

We don't want to burn our filler. No argument here.

One if my biggest peeves is when people assume that things are better for you just because they are natural or "organic". It's honestly one of the most rediculous thought processes I've encountered. Arsenic and Mercury are 100% natural, but I'd happily inhale a pinch of ceramic or rayon fibers over either of those if I had a gun to my head.

Silica is as "natural" (whatever that means) as arsenic and cotton (or dog hair, for that matter).

 

[Ryedan]

Kudos Katya, great posts

 

[Katya]

Kudos Katya, great posts View attachment 398876

TY, Ryedan.

You know I'll be stealing that smiley, don't you.

 

[Katya]

The bottom line is that nobody knows and that doesn't necessarily mean that it's harmful. Do you kno exactly what material is used for the wicking materials and/or coil materials of each comercially available atty?

Not in each commercially made atty in the world, but I know what's in the atties I use. I'm very particular about it.

Do you know all of the exact ingredients that are in any pre-mixed juice you buy?

Not all the exact ingredients, but I'm very particular about that too. I only buy from reputable juice makers who can actually provide lab certificates (and are members of trade organizations). I also I ask a lot of questions--on vendors' forums and via emails. If a vendor can't or won't cooperate, I don't buy from them. I also choose to avoid diketones and cinnamaldehyde in my juices. I don't buy juices that are very sweet, dark, and I avoid NETs. I prefer clean, clear, translucent eliquids that won't clog my coils. And I dilute most of them. I also vape unflavored.

How do you know if they are, in fact, using USP grade PG/VG and not farm grade?

I'm fairly certain that they are. The ones I buy (PG, VG and nic) come with lab certifications. I prefer UK-sourced bases because they were the earliest ones to offer said certifications and I have developed a taste for them.

And, if you don't know all of those things, and you can't back it up with chemical analysis papers for each of them, then why are you so concerned about this one material?

Oh, but I do. And I can back it up. So can my vendors. And I expect the same candor and transparency from Aspire.

 

[chargingcharlie]

Do you know something that we don't or are you just speculating, Charlie?

Total speculation based on the following: Over 13 billion Kent cigarettes with asbestos filters were smoked over a four year period (before being pulled) and, 60 years later, there have only been 150 cases of respiratory disease as a result of those filters. And, yes, that surprised me too.

Why 20 watts? It seems like an arbitrary number.

It is arbitrary but, to be honest, I'm perfectly happy with the 8W one of my mods provides. My 20W "limit" was based on the availability of quality devices, that seem to stay around the 15W-30W, as well as my understanding of electronics based on my experience. Anyone who understands electricity, with anything more than a very basic level, would agree that the high wattage being used in these is mostly pointless. The only benefit I can see would be that a higher wattage device, would require a thicker coil, which could provide a more even heating surface. But you and I know that's not why people buy them [emoji6]

Not in each commercially made atty in the world, but I know what's in the atties I use. I'm very particular about it.



Not all the exact ingredients, but I'm very particular about that too. I only buy from reputable juice makers who can actually provide lab certificates (and are members of trade organizations). I also I ask a lot of questions--on vendors' forums and via emails. If a vendor can't or won't cooperate, I don't buy from them. I also choose to avoid diketones and cinnamaldehyde in my juices. I don't buy juices that are very sweet, dark, and I avoid NETs. I prefer clean, clear, translucent eliquids that won't clog my coils. And I dilute most of them. I also vape unflavored.



I'm fairly certain that they are. The ones I buy (PG, VG and nic) come with lab certifications. I prefer UK-sourced bases because they were the earliest ones to offer said certifications and I have developed a taste for them.



Oh, but I do. And I can back it up. So can my vendors. And I expect the same candor and transparency from Aspire.

You're one of the very few, wouldn't you agree? The only vendor who I've purchased from, who provide lab results/certificates for their products, is NudeNicotine.

While I think it's great that you go to that level of awareness with what you buy, I think you'll agree that many people don't. My post wasn't directed at you, personally, it was meant to point out that a lot of people freaking out about these coils don't pay attention to most other things they buy in the eCig world. I'm all for science, and I'm not opposed to changing my mind when the facts give me a reason to. I just don't see anything reason for concern yet. Is there a potentially bad aspect to these? Yes there is. But, IMO, I just don't see anymore of a health risk in these over the other options available.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[beckdg]

Anyone who understands electricity, with anything more than a very basic level, would agree that the high wattage being used in these is mostly pointless. The only benefit I can see would be that a higher wattage device, would require a thicker coil, which could provide a more even heating surface. But you and I know that's not why people buy them [emoji6]

methinks it's pretty obvious you've missed entire subforums on this site to proclaim such.

me, for example (and to a certain extent i'm certainly the exception), i vape 50mg/ml somewhere in the 80 watt range day in and day out. i don't do it to "be cool". i do it because i like a loose draw and a <1 second hit that provides more vapor than one can get off of maxing out a 10 second limit imposed on many regulated devices using most clearos, cartos and/or RTAs on the market.

though there may be no others (which i've seen posts that suggest otherwise) that do what i do at such high nic contents, there are certainly entire sub forums on this site of people doing what i do (or very similar) day in and day out for smoking cessation purposes. because it works... and works better for them than your 8 watt comfort zone.

by all means, do what works for you. though, maybe, just maybe, the judgement you've passed on others is unfounded. take your emotion out of your chosen vape style and maybe you can see that for yourself.

P.S. i own a solderer/desolderer and an oscilloscope and i know how to use them.

 

[chargingcharlie]

methinks it's pretty obvious you've missed entire subforums on this site to proclaim such.

me, for example (and to a certain extent i'm certainly the exception), i vape 50mg/ml somewhere in the 80 watt range day in and day out. i don't do it to "be cool". i do it because i like a loose draw and a <1 second hit that provides more vapor than one can get off of maxing out a 10 second limit imposed on many regulated devices using most clearos, cartos and/or RTAs on the market.

though there may be no others (which i've seen posts that suggest otherwise) that do what i do at such high nic contents, there are certainly entire sub forums on this site of people doing what i do (or very similar) day in and day out for smoking cessation purposes. because it works... and works better for them than your 8 watt comfort zone.

by all means, do what works for you. though, maybe, just maybe, the judgement you've passed on others is unfounded. take your emotion out of your chosen vape style and maybe you can see that for yourself.

P.S. i own a solderer/desolderer and an oscilloscope and i know how to use them.

I never intended to insinuate that people sub-Ohm or vape at a higher wattage to be cool. In fact, I hate when anyone says that people vape to be cool in the first place. What I meant was that a lot of people have a mindset that "bigger and more powerful is better" when it just isn't the case in many situations. While I understand that some of you who vape at higher a wattage have a very valid reason to, I'm sure you would agree that many others do it just because it has more power. The only negative thing I have against it, personally, is that I feel that it makes vaping look more dangerous in the eyes of the public as well as those who are against it. My personal reason for not going higher is that I like my batteries to last longer, and I'm perfectly happy with the vapor that the lower watt devices produce.