Aspire official statement on Atlantis coils material

[Katya]

I thought that the doctor that Katya has mentioned did a study on possible negative health affects caused from vaping at too high of a temperature? I could be wrong, but I thought I saw that mentioned somewhere. I'll have to look it up and see what it said.

He's working on it as we speak.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/e-cigarette-research-temperature-of-evaporation

BTW, that's one of the reasons Evolv has introduced the dna 40 with temperature regulation technology. Quite brilliant, IMO. I'm still reading and learning, but I'm pretty sure that my next mod will be an rDNA 40. A technology that will forever eliminate overheating coils and burning fillers is a game changer--at least on paper.

 

[Katya]

Katya, it's a Kolobok smiley and you can get the whole set here for your browser. Lately the coding has changed from them or maybe the forum software has changed and I have to edit the code to include just '

' after the file extension. It adds a small button on Firefox that I click to have all the smileys appear in a window on the left side of the Firefox window. I've had it for a year at least now and it has not done anything bad to my system (that I know of).

Have fun

Thanks, but stealing from you is so much more fun!

 

[nopoison]

I greatly appreciate everyone's input on this thread! I for one expect to see something come of this very soon. My guess is that they will change to all cotton heads on all of their vertical coil offerings. I just started using the Atlantis about a week ago and have not used one of them with the factory heads. It's been quite easy for me to rebuild these with standard horizontal coil and except maybe for the newly released Kanger Subtank (which comes with organic cotton wicking from the factory) no other clearomizer comes close to providing the amount of airflow and airflow control. There is a seperate thread for rebuilding these heads on this forum for anyone interested. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/coil-builds/635637-anyone-rebuilt-aspire-atlantis-coil.html

 

[Katya]

Total speculation based on the following: Over 13 billion Kent cigarettes with asbestos filters were smoked over a four year period (before being pulled) and, 60 years later, there have only been 150 cases of respiratory disease as a result of those filters. And, yes, that surprised me too.

Asbestos was great--until it wasn't. My mom had a couple of asbestos heat diffusers in her kitchen; they were great for slow cooking. Other than that, the dose meketh the poison.

It is arbitrary but, to be honest, I'm perfectly happy with the 8W one of my mods provides. My 20W "limit" was based on the availability of quality devices, that seem to stay around the 15W-30W, as well as my understanding of electronics based on my experience. Anyone who understands electricity, with anything more than a very basic level, would agree that the high wattage being used in these is mostly pointless. The only benefit I can see would be that a higher wattage device, would require a thicker coil, which could provide a more even heating surface. But you and I know that's not why people buy them [emoji6]

I couldn't understand high wattage vaping myself for the longest time, until people like Ryedan and Beckdg finally explained it to me. And yes, there are people who engage in cloud blowing competitions, but as long as they know what they are doing, it doesn't really bother me anymore--but it used to. People do extreme things all the time. I will never vape at 50 watts, I'm pretty sure of that, but I may try, say, 15W, some day--as soon as I get my DNA 40 mod.

You're one of the very few, wouldn't you agree? The only vendor who I've purchased from, who provide lab results/certificates for their products, is NudeNicotine. While I think it's great that you go to that level of awareness with what you buy, I think you'll agree that many people don't.

I don't know, honest. I've been vaping for 5 years and when I started in 2009, we really had no idea what we were doing. That's why I found this forum and never left. I can't speak for other people, but there are many threads here (and on other forums) endlessly debating risks and possible dangers of this and that material or ingredient--from kanthal to diacetyl... I'm not a health freak and I'm not paranoid, but I like to be aware and informed. I read labels when I grocery shop, I look both ways before I cross the street, and I wear a seat belt. But other than that, I do live a normal life. Promise.

My post wasn't directed at you, personally, it was meant to point out that a lot of people freaking out about these coils don't pay attention to most other things they buy in the eCig world. I'm all for science, and I'm not opposed to changing my mind when the facts give me a reason to. I just don't see anything reason for concern yet. Is there a potentially bad aspect to these? Yes there is. But, IMO, I just don't see anymore of a health risk in these over the other options available.

Fair enough. I get that. Many of my ECF buddies use and love those coils and are willing to take the risk. Others are unaware that a risk even exists. I never said that BVC coils were dangerous--they may turn out to be quite harmless. I'm just asking questions.

 

[chargingcharlie]

He's working on it as we speak.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/e-cigarette-research-temperature-of-evaporation

BTW, that's one of the reasons Evolv has introduced the DNA 40 with temperature regulation technology. Quite brilliant, IMO. I'm still reading and learning, but I'm pretty sure that my next mod will be an rDNA 40. A technology that will forever eliminate overheating coils and burning fillers is a game changer--at least on paper.

I agree. The burning of any wicking material is a bad situation. I'm not a fan of the box mods (I just like the tube style form factor better for some reason) so I hope that technology makes its way into some tube style mods.


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[Katya]

I can respect that.

I do want to point out though that regardless of perception, the only solid (legitimized) issue the public has been made aware of via the media is explosions and fires due to the (mis) use of ecigs. Almost all of which that are reported and/or known being traced back to ego style batteries.

Sent from my device.

And user error...

 

[chargingcharlie]

Asbestos was great--until it wasn't. My mom had a couple of asbestos heat diffusers in her kitchen; they were great for slow cooking. Other than that, the dose meketh the poison.



I couldn't understand high wattage vaping myself for the longest time, until people like Ryedan and Beckdg finally explained it to me. And yes, there are people who engage in cloud blowing competitions, but as long as they know what they are doing, it doesn't really bother me anymore--but it used to. People do extreme things all the time. I will never vape at 50 watts, I'm pretty sure of that, but I may try, say, 15W, some day--as soon as I get my DNA 40 mod.



I don't know, honest. I've been vaping for 5 years and when I started in 2009, we really had no idea what we were doing. That's why I found this forum and never left. I can't speak for other people, but there are many threads here (and on other forums) endlessly debating risks and possible dangers of this and that material or ingredient--from kanthal to diacetyl... I'm not a health freak and I'm not paranoid, but I like to be aware and informed. I read labels when I grocery shop, I look both ways before I cross the street, and I wear a seat belt. But other than that, I do live a normal life. Promise.



Fair enough. I get that. Many of my ECF buddies use and love those coils and are willing to take the risk. Others are unaware that a risk even exists. I never said that BVC coils were dangerous--they may turn out to be quite harmless. I'm just asking questions.

I don't blame you. I just saw some posts over at some other site where people were freaking out like the sky was falling. I think that it just made me a little sensitive to the whole subject. My dad smoked non-filtered cigarettes his whole life because of the of asbestos and fiberglass being used in filters way back when. If he "bummed" a smoke off a friend he always tore the filter off before lighting it.


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[Katya]

I agree. The burning of any wicking material is a bad situation. I'm not a fan of the box mods (I just like the tube style form factor better for some reason) so I hope that technology makes its way into some tube style mods.


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I didn't like them either--until I started using them. Now my ProVari feels unwieldy.

I also used to think that eGo-class batteries were way too big for me and that I would never ever buy one.

 

[chargingcharlie]

I didn't like them either--until I started using them. Now my ProVari feels unwieldy.

I also used to think that eGo-class batteries were way too big for me and that I would never ever buy one.

My wife is in that stage right now. She has a small eGo style and doesn't want anything bigger. I'm going to try to convince her to take my Coolfire 1 when the Provari I bought arrives. She's still using iClear 16 clearos and I always feel like I've sucking on one of those tiny red straws when I fill and prime them for her.


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[Katya]

My wife is in that stage right now. She has a small eGo style and doesn't want anything bigger. I'm going to try to convince her to take my Coolfire 1 when the Provari I bought arrives. She's still using iClear 16 clearos and I always feel like I've sucking on one of those tiny red straws when I fill and prime them for her.


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It's a process. It takes time. Other than that, whatever works. Has she tried Innokin VV V3? Same size as eGos, but with all the features of the MVP2--vv/vw, ohms reader...

Having said that, I never liked top-coil clearos. I was always worried about wicking and I kept tilting and turning them upside down to make sure that the coil is wet. But there are people who love them.

 

[chargingcharlie]

It's a process. It takes time. Other than that, whatever works. Has she tried Innokin VV V3? Same size as eGos, but with all the features of the MVP2--vv/vw, ohms reader...

Having said that, I never liked top-coil clearos. I was always worried about wicking and I kept tilting and turning them upside down to make sure that the coil is wet. But there are people who love them.

The only others she's tried are the Coolfire and a Vision Spinner II. I have a feeling she'll wind up using my Coolfire at home and will carry a smaller eGo style with her.


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[Racehorse]

Interesting stuff, Firecrow. Thanks for posting it.

I always considered vaping to be harm reduction.

I don't know where some of the % that people throw out, like vaping is 98% safe, come from. There are far too many variables to consider, both in the eliquid that is vaporized to the delivery devices that make that happen. And a lot going on in between.

Many of the studies I'm waiting to see don't even complete until 2019, etc. so........I guess we'll be waiting a while.

 

[Ryedan]

I don't advocate people saying these are perfectly safe anymore than I advocate people saying that they are harmful.

Well, is there anything in life that is perfectly safe?

No, but that statement is too broad to apply to everything as a rationalization for doing it.

Firecrow, I was responding to chargingcharlie's statement above and it probably didn't come across the way I meant it which was that the first part of what he said goes without saying. I didn't mean because everything has some risk attached, that excuses taking on all risk.

I'll try to be more clear next time

 

[chargingcharlie]

Interesting stuff, Firecrow. Thanks for posting it.

I always considered vaping to be harm reduction.

I don't know where some of the % that people throw out, like vaping is 98% safe, come from. There are far too many variables to consider, both in the eliquid that is vaporized to the delivery devices that make that happen. And a lot going on in between.

Many of the studies I'm waiting to see don't even complete until 2019, etc. so........I guess we'll be waiting a while.

I think a lot of those numbers are just educated guesses at this point. As long as there's no combustion, and only the basic ingredients are used (PG, VG, Nic, and small amounts of flavoring known to be safe), then I would be surprised to see the negative health effects to be anywhere close to as harmful as cigarettes. But who knows what we'll know 5-10 years from now. People thought cigarettes were safe at one point too, and we wonder how they could ever have thought that. Maybe we'll be the dummies this time [emoji23]


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[Ryedan]

Subohming introduces far more risk because the temperatures create radiant and contact energies high enough to result in thermal decomposition and that is an alarm bell that we should ALL be aware of.

Two points Firecrow.

It's not always about sub-ohm anymore though that concept is still rampant, it's about high power vaping. You can get 60 watts from a mechanical mod running a 0.2 ohm coil or you can get the same power from a regulated mod set at 60 watts running a 1.5 ohm coil.

Also, more heat does not necessarily result in higher coil temperature in a wet atty. I think more in terms of heat flux, or power per coil surface area. The coil is wet and as long as the heat flux is low enough and the wick can keep up, the vaporization process and air flow will keep the coil cool. You probably know way more about this than I do so feel free to correct me if I have that wrong

OTOH, even a 6 watt atty can burn juice or cotton because the coil temperature got too high.

Sorry, its a long post but I wanted to brain dump this to put the picture into the context as I see it. You're welcome to whatever conclusions you want to make yourselves, but that's mine.

Thanks for sharing, we certainly think a lot alike and I enjoyed the read. I downloaded the Powerpoint file and will read it shortly

 

[bwh79]

...As long as there's no combustion, and only the basic ingredients are used (PG, VG, Nic, and small amounts of flavoring known to be safe), then I would be surprised to see the negative health effects to be anywhere close to as harmful as cigarettes.

May be slightly off-topic, but I wasn't aware there were such things as flavorings "known" to be safe.

 

[beckdg]

Subohming introduces far more risk because the temperatures create radiant and contact energies high enough to result in thermal decomposition and that is an alarm bell that we should ALL be aware of.

If sub ohm coils burn hotter they're done incorrectly. The point is more surface area at the same temperature as a smaller (higher resistance due to thinner wire) coil.

Better coils are ones made of ... material that is evenly distributed and create even temperature and greater surface area and thus more vapor with less likelihood of creating an over-temperature situation for the wick material, resulting in thermal decomposition.

This snippet describes a sub ohm coil pretty well.

NR/R/NR wire works very well if the topper using them is constructed well. Hence why the sophia, divo, etc. Get rave reviews. some folks even built their own tsaf(s) to make their own wire for clearo heads (seemed to be almost an underground trend for the protank family for a while there) to keep the termination leads from burning the grommets that kept the poles separate.

This is simply either a bad design, people over powering them with higher wattage devices or using them too often to allow wicking to keep up.

Sent from my device.

 

[Firecrow]

Firecrow, I was responding to chargingcharlie's statement above and it probably didn't come across the way I meant it which was that the first part of what he said goes without saying. I didn't mean because everything has some risk attached, that excuses taking on all risk.

I'll try to be more clear next time

Sorry Ryedan, I wasn't singling you out, I was just using it as a way to expand the discussion on risk. You didn't come across badly at all, it just raised a common point about risk that I was actually formulating a reply for. I was just replying conversationally.

 

[chargingcharlie]

May be slightly off-topic, but I wasn't aware there were such things as flavorings "known" to be safe.

I don't know of any specific brands that are documented as being safe. What I meant is if we only used flavors that are known to be safe along with the bases that are known to be "safe" (compared to cigarettes). As with anything, the key is to have as few ingredients as possible to minimize the potential risk. IMO, if you really want to be safe while vaping, then you'd probably be better off limiting your lung intake as much as possible. I've noticed that I tend to vape a lot when i drive, so I puff on it more like a pipe when I drive, just to get the flavor, and then take an occasional lung hit.


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[Firecrow]

Two points Firecrow.

It's not always about sub-ohm anymore though that concept is still rampant, it's about high power vaping. You can get 60 watts from a mechanical mod running a 0.2 ohm coil or you can get the same power from a regulated mod set at 60 watts running a 1.5 ohm coil.

Also, more heat does not necessarily result in higher coil temperature in a wet atty. I think more in terms of heat flux, or power per coil surface area. The coil is wet and as long as the heat flux is low enough and the wick can keep up, the vaporization process and air flow will keep the coil cool. You probably know way more about this than I do so feel free to correct me if I have that wrong

OTOH, even a 6 watt atty can burn juice or cotton because the coil temperature got too high.

Thanks for sharing, we certainly think a lot alike and I enjoyed the read. I downloaded the Powerpoint file and will read it shortly

Glad you liked it - this thread has been great for information. I'm learning a lot here too.

What I should have said actually was "subohm vaping with the Aspire Atlantis subohm tank" - I was too general, although I have seen people confuse the relationship between power and resistance, so its a good point. Once a vaper understands that, when (if) they rebuild, they're better equipped to understand when adding power won't yield better results based on coil and wicking choices. And you're absolutely right on the vaporization cooling effect. Its why we use fire on water - common misconception is that we are smothering the fire, and in some cases that's true, but in most cases we're attacking the heat side of the fire tetrahedron and trying to bring the reducing agent below its ignition temperature. Same principle as it applied to e-liquid's cooling effect on a coil - as you say, provided your wick is 100% effective, 100% of the time - and those are tough odds for even the best of us.

And no, I probably don't know a lot more than you on this, and while I've worked with microelectronics at the board level in my life, nothing in that world prepared me for heating a specially composed wire for the purposes of vaporizing a fluid I usually see those sorts of things post accident as an ignition source - so while my knowledge on the combustion side is high from my profession, there are those here with a better grasp of power to resistance as it pertains to vaping.

I just love my rDNA40 as I can finally set temperature without a lot of build-voodoo!