Aspire official statement on Atlantis coils material

[Katya]

Aspire has a secret material like other companies do.

Perhaps. But as long as they keep referring us to the lab report that clearly says "fiberglass paper," it is fiberglass. And I don't want to inhale fiberglass.

What's next, ask KFC to tell us how their fried chicken is made?

What's wrong with asking them? Or you can just Google it--every ingredient that they use is listed here:

http://www.kfc.com/nutrition/pdf/kfc_ingredients.pdf

You cant bully them to use organic cotton imo. I just rather not use their product instead

I don't bully anybody, I ask questions. Sorry. And I won't use their products until they, in the words of SJ, "either get this sorted, or they substitute materials if it proves impossible to get accurate data."

For me there has been no studies done if vaping off organic cotton is any safer. Just bc its organic does not mean it is safer. I will stick with the Atlantis vape it off at 15 w for now

Nobody in this thread claimed that the organic cotton is safer by the virtue of being organic. It has to do with the length of fibers. It's been covered earlier in the thread, including byssinosis.

That's your decision and yours alone!

Good luck.

 

[Rondo9]

Perhaps. But as long as they keep referring us to the lab report that clearly says "fiberglass paper," it is fiberglass. And I don't want to inhale fiberglass.



What's wrong with asking them? Or you can just Google it--every ingredient that they use is listed here:

http://www.kfc.com/nutrition/pdf/kfc_ingredients.pdf



I don't bully anybody, I ask questions. Sorry. And I won't use their products until they, in the words of SJ, "either get this sorted, or they substitute materials if it proves impossible to get accurate data."



Nobody in this thread claimed that the organic cotton is safer by the virtue of being organic. It has to do with the length of fibers. It's been covered earlier in the thread, including byssinosis.

That's your decision and yours alone!

Good luck.

How do you know you are inhaling the material?

 

[Rondo9]

Perhaps. But as long as they keep referring us to the lab report that clearly says "fiberglass paper," it is fiberglass. And I don't want to inhale fiberglass.



What's wrong with asking them? Or you can just Google it--every ingredient that they use is listed here:

http://www.kfc.com/nutrition/pdf/kfc_ingredients.pdf



I don't bully anybody, I ask questions. Sorry. And I won't use their products until they, in the words of SJ, "either get this sorted, or they substitute materials if it proves impossible to get accurate data."



Nobody in this thread claimed that the organic cotton is safer by the virtue of being organic. It has to do with the length of fibers. It's been covered earlier in the thread, including byssinosis.

That's your decision and yours alone!

Good luck.

Question for you. If it was between smoking a cig or using the Atlantis , which one would you choose?

 

[Katya]

How do you know you are inhaling the material?

Rondo, I don't want to be impolite, but did you read the thread? It's all been covered before. We all keep saying that we don't know but we need to know, that's why we keep asking. At least some of us would like to know because of potential dangers associated with inhaling crystalline fiberglass particles.

I really don't want to post and repost the same stuff over and over.

I have pretty much said everything I had to say on the subject.

 

[Katya]

Question for you. If it was between smoking a cig or using the Atlantis , which one would you choose?

I don't know. Because I don't know what I'm inhaling when using coil heads stuffed with fiberglass. Both can cause cancer, fiberglass can also cause silicosis.

Luckily, I have other choices. I don't have to use BVC coils in order to vape.

 

[Jazzman]

I have no opinion on the subject of chrome plated brass vs. ss--I don't know enough about it. There is some concern about lead being added to the alloy, especially in China. I think people were mostly upset about false advertising--the tanks, both Nautilus and Atlantic, are advertised as ss, and they are not.

Kanger uses both all stainless (Aerotanks, Sub Tanks) and non-ss tanks--but they fully disclose it and they charge less for non-ss (Genitanks and ProTanks, etc.) I appreciate full disclosure and truth in advertising.

I don't really have an opinion about the use of chromed brass in the construction of a tank either. But I would think you would be a bit concerned about Kanger being disingenuous about the brass they use in their products also. Take for example the Subtank. The head is plated brass, or the heads for the aerotanks (and others of their line) which also have plated brass. If there was a problem with brass leaching I would imagine close proximity to a very high heat source would be a greater concern than plated brass that is in a cooler area of the tank. Since Kanger advertises all SS construction I think they really deserve the same treatment that Aspire is receiving now if you are concerned about health issues or truth in advertising, and yet no one seems concerned in the least.

Like I said, I'm not sure about the health concerns of plated brass in our tank products but I personally am not overly concerned. If this was truly an issue there would be no brass RDAs or driptips. I know there are some that have mentioned that they are leery of brass products in the past like in RDAs, but I have never seen it be raised to the point of an unsubstantiated witch hunt.

But what's good for the goose must be good for the gander, so all who feel this is an issue for Aspire should really hold Kanger (and others) to the same standard.

 

[drunkenbatman]

How do you know you are inhaling the material?

How do you know you aren't? Aspire's assurances are:

1. There's a cotton liner
2. There's a screen

They say the screen is there to help stop flooding into the tube and such, so it simply doesn't matter. Science says this, just on it's mesh size.

We know that cotton lining gets compromised awfully easily, exposing the filler directly to the coil. Some variation of "Aspire bvc tastes burnt" is one of the top things I come across in the forums. In a lot of the photos of used coils I've seen, it barely looks like the cotton layer was ever there. Maybe they're all holding it wrong.

My open question is: how well does the the liner, even when wet, stop particulate migration with the eliquid at all?

The only reason we have for thinking so is Aspire, yet they first explain why it's designed as it is *not* for safety but performance -- which all makes sense when you understand how cotton and other things wick vs hold eliquid. Then they say the cotton if wet will protect you. e.g., if it's on the inside to stop particulates from the fiberglass, why is it on the outside?

I can imagine particulate migration and breaking off is way worse when the liner is compromised and you're directly exposing the eliquid/fiberglass to the coil heat, but I really don't know if it's happening anyways to an extent even when wet. And I know that oiled cotton gauze can be used as a filter, but don't know for what sizes, etc.

 

[Katya]

I don't really have an opinion about the use of chromed brass in the construction of a tank either. But I would think you would be a bit concerned about Kanger being disingenuous about the brass they use in their products also. Take for example the Subtank. The head is plated brass, or the heads for the aerotanks (and others of their line) which also have plated brass. If there was a problem with brass leaching I would imagine close proximity to a very high heat source would be a greater concern than plated brass that is in a cooler area of the tank. Since Kanger advertises all SS construction I think they really deserve the same treatment that Aspire is receiving now if you are concerned about health issues or truth in advertising, and yet no one seems concerned in the least.

Like I said, I'm not sure about the health concerns of plated brass in our tank products but I personally am not overly concerned. If this was truly an issue there would be no brass RDAs or driptips. I know there are some that have mentioned that they are leery of brass products in the past like in RDAs, but I have never seen it be raised to the point of an unsubstantiated witch hunt.

But what's good for the goose must be good for the gander, so all who feel this is an issue for Aspire should really hold Kanger (and others) to the same standard.

I agree. But we were talking about tanks only--and as I said, it's not a big issue for me. Some people are concerned about Aspire tanks because the chimneys have internal threads (to screw in coil heads). They claim that with repeated screwing and unscrewing, the threads get stripped easily of the chrome plating exposing bare brass. Kanger non-ss tanks (Genitanks and ProTanks) have no internal threads inside the chimneys, so the chrome plating is less likely to be stripped.

As for the coil heads, I'm not really concerned, as they are disposable. If used as recommended, that is: refilled several times and discarded, the risk of brass being exposed and leaching anything is truly minimal (if not non-existent) after a few refills, at least to my understanding.

So again, I have no problem myself with chrome-plated brass to begin with. And I have zero concern about chrome plated brass in disposable coil heads, no matter who makes them--Kanger, Aspire, Innokin, Bogetech, Smoktech, whatever.

 

[Katya]

I got whammied with a virus and my brain wasn't working so well, and then you guys somehow double the post count while I was nursing my wounds so I had to catch up. This gets a little lengthy, but these links got posted as saying cotton caused cancer, and while I am not an expert, I wanted to help break these down so people can understand them and make up their own mind.(snip)

Hope you're feeling better, Batman!

Great post, BTW. I just finished reading through it!

 

[drunkenbatman]

But I would think you would be a bit concerned about Kanger being disingenuous about the brass they use in their products also. Take for example the Subtank. The head is plated brass, or the heads for the aerotanks (and others of their line) which also have plated brass. If there was a problem with brass leaching I would imagine ...

Oh mate, I 100% full-heartedly endorse equal treatment for equal grievances, but again we are into a fallacy where you are comparing different things and equating them as the same. Equivalency fallancy. It's a real thing. We're all susceptible to it, but some are really susceptible in this thread, especially when I see someone going "gun to your head, a cigarette or fiberglass coil?" as though it's a trump.

As a disclaimer, I'm not really in either camp -- but to your statement:

With Aspire, we are talking about a tank advertised as stainless steel, with a chimney/bell that wasn't -- which they originally lied about to users and then came clean and said they'd change it.

With Kanger (atm), you're talking about a tank advertised as stainless steel, with a stainless still rebuildable module and disposable replacement coils that are chromed brass. AFAICT, they've never hidden that, which is a bonus.

If two companies advertised stainless steel coils and company A had an SS housing and company B had a brass housing, saying someone was being disingenious for not going going after company A because it also had kanthal in it would be missing the point, as would pointing out that it has o-rings.

I'm not saying it isn't worth looking into, as you can't look into the coils to make sure the coating is complete, etc. Luckily, at least with the subtank you don't have to use the coils at all, and just use the stainless rebuildable part.

 

[KGB7]

Rondo, I don't want to be impolite, but did you read the thread? It's all been covered before. We all keep saying that we don't know but we need to know, that's why we keep asking. At least some of us would like to know because of potential dangers associated with inhaling crystalline fiberglass particles.

I really don't want to post and repost the same stuff over and over.

I have pretty much said everything I had to say on the subject.

You dont know, so get it tested.

I dont want to be impolite, but you really need to get this stuff tested.

 

[KGB7]

How do you know you are inhaling the material?

She doesnt know and no one knows!

 

[Rondo9]

She doesnt know and no one knows!

Also nobody has an explanation as to why Aspire would be using the materials they are. If they are all about profits, is using the materials they are cheap? Why not just use organic cotton (super cheap). If it's not cheap (imo doesn't sound like it is and the effort to construct the material layers) then maybe they know something most of us regular joe vapers don't know about. They found a way to do X, Y, Z when people have been complaining about X,Y,Z. For example bvc coils are ahead of many other makers coils in terms flavor, vapor and no burnt taste.

When i was using the PT3 , i was ready to give up vaping and worse go back to smoking cigs. Until i tried the Nautilus bvc

 

[KGB7]

Also nobody has an explanation as to why Aspire would be using the materials they are. If they are all about profits, is using the materials they are cheap? If it's not cheap (imo doesn't sound like it is and the effort to construct the material layers) then maybe they know something most of us regular joe vapers don't know about. They found a way to do X, Y, Z when people have been complaining about X,Y,Z. For example bvc coils are ahead of many other makers coils in terms flavor, vapor and no burnt taste.

When i was using the PT3 , i was ready to give up vaping and worse go back to smoking cigs. Until i tried the Nautilus bvc

There is no explanation, no one has explanation. But, some people love to throw fear around the forums with no facts.



Do people that have never smoked die sooner then smokers? Yes.

Do people that have never smoked get cancers that smokers dont? Yes

Do people die sooner for various reason earlier then smokers? Yes

Do you still care if you are inhaling fiberglass? If you said YES, then you need to pay to test Aspire BVC coils.

 

[drunkenbatman]

You dont know, so get it tested.

I dont want to be impolite, but you really need to get this stuff tested.

This does not compute. At all.

Again, the onus is on the manufacturer selling a mass of fiberglass fibers in a coil saying it's safe without giving evidence that it is, just like if they were selling a lead juice well. Putting the onus on Katya (or myself, or their users) to do Aspire's work for them makes zero sense. Where exactly would that logic stop?

 

[drunkenbatman]

Also nobody has an explanation as to why Aspire would be using the materials they are. If they are all about profits, is using the materials they are cheap? Why not just use organic cotton (super cheap).

Because it's effective. This has been talked about earlier. Cotton holds eliquid really well, but it doesn't transport eliquid well. You see this with RDA coils that have been overwicked where the cotton near the coil will be dry, and the cotton near the walls of the RDA will be wet. So the figerglass paper helps keep everything moving. THEY THEMSELVES SAID ESSENTIALLY THIS IN THEIR PR RELEASE THIS WHOLE THREAD IS BASED ON.

With respect mate, you care enough to post yet are posing things no one would if they'd bothered to read much of what this is about, like the first post of the thread. Just because something is effective does not mean it is a good idea and that there aren't serious side effects, or that a company is keeping those in mind.

then maybe they know something most of us regular joe vapers don't know about.

To a skeptic, this is called an "appeal to authority." It's magical thinking, and leads to being what's called a "useful idiot" by those in PR/Politics (I am not calling you an idiot). Maybe General Motors knew something we didn't when they said the switches were just fine, and maybe, maybe, maybe -- you're inventing scenarios to try to help information you don't like, yet can't discount, fit into what you want to be true.

 

[KGB7]

This does not compute. At all.

Again, the onus is on the manufacturer selling a mass of fiberglass fibers in a coil saying it's safe without giving evidence that it is, just like if they were selling a lead juice well. Putting the onus on Katya (or myself, or their users) to do Aspire's work for them makes zero sense. Where exactly would that logic stop?

Aspire says that coils are safe, in confusing Engrish language.

Katya and other say that BVC coils are not safe with assumption.

So the burden of proof falls on to Katya and other users/people on this forum.

From legal point of view; Aspire doesnt have to do crap for you or anyone to prove that BVC coils are safe. So its up to you, Katya and other people to test BVC coils on their own.


Does it compute now??

 

[Rondo9]

Aspire says that coils are safe, in confusing Engrish language.

Katya and other say that BVC coils are not safe with assumption.

So the burden of proof falls on to Katya and other users/people on this forum.

From legal point of view; Aspire doesnt have to do crap for you or anyone to prove that BVC coils are safe. So its up to you, Katya and other people to test BVC coils on their own.


Does it compute now??

+1. Aspire has provided a diagram. The organic cotton is closest to the coils.

 

[drunkenbatman]

Does it compute now??

Not in the least mate, but how you're thinking about it does and makes it clear for others. Thanks!

+1. Aspire has provided a diagram. The organic cotton is closest to the coils.

Yeah, I got nothing.

 

[KGB7]

Not in the least mate, but how you're thinking about it does and makes it clear for others. Thanks!



Yeah, I got nothing.

What exactly do you not understand?