At my wits end... a cry for help.

[NancyR]

Yes genesis really are that different, I had to drop from 24 mg to 12 when I started using genesis. I do agree with drinking more water, my dr told me I should take my weight in lbs divide by 2 and that is the number of ounces of water I should be drinking everyday.

Extra help for the dry skin, try either Vitamin A & D or some olive oil. Both work wonders.

You might not know this but there is a stuff out called koolada that helps with the th much like menthol does, without the menthol taste.

 

[Racehorse]

Did I miss the part where you vape VG or PG WITHOUT any flavorings?

If you haven't done that, you haven't entirely eliminated the cause for the headaches IMHO.

Do it with and without nic, in separate trials........that would be 4 complete trials:
VG w/out nic
VG w/nic
PG w/out nic
PG w/nic

NO FLAVORINGS AT ALL.

Do not buy more equipment til headaches are solved.

I apologize in advance for the length of this, but, really I'm at my wits end, here.
I'm a Type 1 diabetic, recovering alcoholic, musician, and I absolutely love to smoke. 2 PAD camels for the last decade or so.
I need to quit. I've tried, nothing worked, patches, gum, yada, yada, yada.
So, like everybody else I started out with a little "ecig" and have moved up to tanks, cartos, and egotwist batteries.
My Litany of problems goes like this....

1.Nicotine makes my blood sugar spike. And I mean SPIKE.
But, low nic = low TH, right? So, what gives you a big throat hit on low nic? Menthol. Yes, please. (6mg at this point)
Menthol, aparently, gives me a screaming headache. Great.

Or does it....?

1,b. Ok, maybe it's not the menthol...
So, I tried 100% VG... Constantly clearing my throat... Cravings increase dramatically probably due to the low nic (6mg.)
Reduced but noticeable headache. No good, moving on. (buy more juice, different vendors)

1.c. Perhaps a 50/50 blend? Better TH, but, still clearing my throat. Head hurts... Moving on.

1,d. Oh? Someone on the forum says that LOWER NIC causes headaches??? Ok, lets take a shot (increase to 12mg)
Increased TH, still not enough. Still clearing my throat. Still having headaches. BUT cravings go down.

1,e. TH Increased by voltage, you say? ... let's go shopping. (Add ego twist, 1000 mah, lil mamma tanks, lr cartos, more juice)

1. f. TYPE of menthol responsible for headaches? Could be...

But wait! What's this on the forum??? "Menthol added to 50/50 blend stops throat clearing???" Less menthol for 60/40, 70/30, and so on? Holy crap. (Frantically combines different bottles of SAME ejuices with varying vg/pg ratios and nic content and... voila) No headache. No Throat clearing.
THANK YOU, SWEET BABY... crap, I still want a cigarette.

To this point;
Cost: maybe $300
Time on forum: Maybe 10 hours
ok... let's screw with a good thing....

2. Nicotine.
Too much and I'm headed for a coma (at 24 mg my first few days my BG went from 120 to 423. Holy. Crap. Batman.)
Too little? I have cravings and, really, what's the point of this whole adventure? Not to mention the risk of these headaches.
I'll save you the step by step. I fooled with varying degrees of nicmg until my sugar was ok. Now, holy cow...

I only had... 10 cigs today? On a gig night? An 18 hour day with 10 cigs? You're kidding me...

3. Taste.
If ONLY i actually LIKED the flipping taste.... let's buy more juice.
30. bottle of ejuice from at least 10 vendors later and... nada, zilch, nothing. The closest I've got is my standby J55 from Rawr (50/50, 6mg), mixed with Tobacco pure from Volcano (?/? 16mg), mixed with Volcano's menthol (?/? 0% maybe 10% of mix)

4. *scratch, scratch* what the frak is this?
My hand has turned reptilian. I'm turning into an alligator. Now the skin cracks and it looks like I've gone a round with John Sullivan.
Time to turn down the PG? Sure. Ok. I REALLY don't want to go back to clearing my throat every 5 flipping seconds. Put some bag balm on it. It'll be fine. But... wait...

5. What the HELL IS THIS TASTE IN MY MOUTH?? It tastes like Rubbing alcohol mixed with dirt! Perfect!
(Frantically mixes to lower PG)

6. MY TEETH HURT!
(frantically mixes to reduce nic content)

7. I WANT A CIGARETTE! NURSE RATCHET! I WANT MY CIGARETTES!!!!!!!

Do you see? Do you see the insanity that has become my life? I have hundreds of dollars and at least 100 hours invested in this. I don't want to go back to smoking full time. I need some serious, straight up, no bull...., no "i could be sponsored by this company...but I'm not telling YOU" advise. I have SCOURED the withdrawal symptoms. I have POURED over the advise columns. Trust me. I KNOW it's the juice.

Help me believe, here, guys. Somebody.

Edited: Yes. I'm drinking tons of water. Liquid tons of water. The headaches subsided along with hydration, dumping my juice stash, and reducing pg levels. The reptilian hide and aching teeth, however...

 

[tomf]

Might be time to bring a MD in on this. Maybe something can help block the nicotine->Blood Sugar spike.

You all have a resident MD?

 

[medicmckay]

Hey bud im no doc, however. If nicotine raises your blood sugar you'd have been in DKA at the end of those 2 packs of camels a day. I've read that vg breaks down into carbohydrates and pg breaks down into lactic acid....of course ive also read that the vg breakdown in your body shouldnt rause glucose levels. I think you need to start from scratch, it sounds like a bad vape day gone wrong where nothing seems to work. Youv'e been vaping a while so id recommend starting at the basics and finding what will work. Is say pick the flavor you want wth ur twist and cartos. Get sample sized bottles of that flavor at a decent nic level of varying pg ratios. And go talk to your doc is your glucose is spiking. If its not the ecig gheres other bad .... that could be going on.

 

[tomf]

Did I miss the part where you vape VG or PG WITHOUT any flavorings?

If you haven't done that, you haven't entirely eliminated the cause for the headaches IMHO.

Sorry, should have mentioned that. I thought if I started listing EVERything I tried somebody would come find me and strangle me. So far, I've tried a 70vg/ 30pg mix with no flavorings at 4mg. But, honesty, I didn't vape it for very long... Would flavorings be consistent regardless of vendor? So far EVERY VG heavy juice I've tried has caused throat clearing. The headaches seem to be consistent with any high strength menthol flavor. (right now I'm mixing with a regular menthol.) I'll give the flavorless stuff a run tomorrow and let you know how it goes.

 

[tomf]

Hey bud im no doc, however. If nicotine raises your blood sugar you'd have been in DKA at the end of those 2 packs of camels a day. I've read that vg breaks down into carbohydrates and pg breaks down into lactic acid....of course ive also read that the vg breakdown in your body shouldnt rause glucose levels. I think you need to start from scratch, it sounds like a bad vape day gone wrong where nothing seems to work. Youv'e been vaping a while so id recommend starting at the basics and finding what will work. Is say pick the flavor you want wth ur twist and cartos. Get sample sized bottles of that flavor at a decent nic level of varying pg ratios. And go talk to your doc is your glucose is spiking. If its not the ecig gheres other bad .... that could be going on.

I've adjusted my meds to compensate for 1.5 - 3 packs a day. It wasn't intentional... I didn't do a calculation on nicotine consumption vs bloodsugar spikes or anything. I've just adjusted based on my fasting sugar levels, and 5 daily checks. No joke. Largest spike i've had since I got out of the hospital 2 and half years ago was was 340ish. Spikes dropped as soon as I cut the nic levels in the juice. I agree, though. That's a good idea. Stop trying so many flavors, pick one I'm OK with, try different ratios and spreadsheet the .... out of it.

Oh, and, these symptoms aren't one day. We're talking maybe 2 months worth of stuff, here. Like I said, I've been trying to solve this on my own and I'm getting desperate.

 

[Leatherneck]

I've read a couple of threads on insulin dependent diabetics and nicotine levels. When I started on 24mg my bg went NUTS. I dropped the nic to 6mg and my sugar not only improved, I had to drop my lantus because I was going hypo. Good signs. Also pretty definitive cause/ effect. I never noticed such high spikes on analogs, but then again, I've adjusted my diet and routine to revolve around my pretty steady smoking habit. Pretty sad, huh?

I have hypoglycemia, so I guess I won one in the genetic lottery. I would seriously involve your doc.

Maybe get into DIY. Better control over your ingredients. I'm no doctor, but I'd be asking if the whole Glycol part of the e-liquid has an affect. Maybe get higher nic levels than you would normally take, but cut it with distilled water.

 

[tc3driver]

I am not a diabetic, but my Father (RIP) was (type 2). I semi-wonder if it isn't the nicotine that is causing the BS spikes but the change in habit. One thing I know about diabetics is the need for a fairly consistent lifestyle, dosing the same things at roughly the same time every day (in some cases within minutes of the norm). Quitting smoking causes a lot of changes in the body. I just wonder if this is something that is due to the changes within the body...

To the OP.. all I can say is stick with it... I have not been able to smoke a cigarette since I have started vaping (really!). Just find a juice you enjoy! sometimes difficult to do and costly if you have no local shops with a ton of different juices to try.

Best of luck to you sir!

 

[Jeriko]

Hey, buddy. First off, sorry you're having these problems. Honestly I would probably recommend picking up a mod with VV. I know its tough money wise but after you've been vaping for awhile it really is worth the investment. I was having an analog every so often when I was running off of a 510 device but as soon as I switched I no longer had the craving. As for your headaches and such, I would try mixing some 12mg spearmint with a 6mg liquid of your choice. This will do two things: 1) Help with the menthol craving 2) More than likely help with the headaches

I say "more than likely" because you never know until you try. Everyone's built different. I hoped this helped in at least some sort or another. Hang in there!

 

[Worzel]

The itchy, scaly skin may be a PG sensitivity. PG gives me WELTS! Vapor is liquid, especially VG. Your throat is not used to the vapor, mistaking the moisture for phlegm. Goes away with time. My lungs feel funky after vaping in high humidity. A cough clears that. You get headaches when you quit smoking. I felt hungover for a few weeks. Very slowly lower your nicotine levels. You should be good after a while.

 

[Carwashguy]

Dude,
Sorry to hear this man.
New to this myself, so this may not help much.
I can only go by my own experience, and also from what my boy tells me ( dumb ... to even start).
I have had some dry cracking skin issues also with higher pg. i was smoking 1 1/12-2 pkd palmal menthols. He was 1pkd the same or camel crush for the extra menthol.
We started vaping Arctic wolf
It is only made with 20% PG
It definitely gives you the throat hit you could be looking for, and also help with the cracking. I dont know if it will give you the headaches or not.
Vapor God makes it
I havent had a analog since Dec 23, and this is pretty much all i use. From a formal addict to another, good luck man and i truly hope you can find something that works and helps ya

 

[Tanti]

ok VG is a sweetner, not very sweet but it is used as a sweetner.


Im thinking you are going to have to tough out the with draw enought to bring your self down to a nic lvl that you can tollerate with the diabetes. Alot of changes will happen within the body from withdrawing off analog, I know diabetes is senstive to changes in the body, like even a cold can throw it off. And I wonder if the withdrawing off nic might cause it to be thrown off to, If you can find your new reality of safeness meanin mg/ml of nic your body will adapt to it and then work off the nic and use 0mg juice to help with the other parts of the dependancy. With the withdraws, you will have about a week or 2 of tough days. Becareful of sugared juices also. or save up your switch out foods so you can enjoy a sweet vape every once in while as treat.

 

[Tanti]

No problem, man. I should have been more clear about that. You've never had this "throat clearing" thing vaping 100% juice?

I had a really bad smokers cough when I first started, coughed up alot of gunk, the PG helped thin it, now I dont cough at all.
27 days ago I couldnt go without coughing now I dont at all.
Lots of water! more water please!

 

[damselle]

I apologize in advance for the length of this, but, really I'm at my wits end, here.
I'm a Type 1 diabetic, recovering alcoholic, musician, and I absolutely love to smoke. 2 PAD camels for the last decade or so.
I need to quit. I've tried, nothing worked, patches, gum, yada, yada, yada.
So, like everybody else I started out with a little "ecig" and have moved up to tanks, cartos, and egotwist batteries.
My Litany of problems goes like this....

1.Nicotine makes my blood sugar spike. And I mean SPIKE.
But, low nic = low TH, right? So, what gives you a big throat hit on low nic? Menthol. Yes, please. (6mg at this point)
Menthol, aparently, gives me a screaming headache. Great.

Or does it....?

1,b. Ok, maybe it's not the menthol...
So, I tried 100% VG... Constantly clearing my throat... Cravings increase dramatically probably due to the low nic (6mg.)
Reduced but noticeable headache. No good, moving on. (buy more juice, different vendors)

1.c. Perhaps a 50/50 blend? Better TH, but, still clearing my throat. Head hurts... Moving on.

1,d. Oh? Someone on the forum says that LOWER NIC causes headaches??? Ok, lets take a shot (increase to 12mg)
Increased TH, still not enough. Still clearing my throat. Still having headaches. BUT cravings go down.

1,e. TH Increased by voltage, you say? ... let's go shopping. (Add ego twist, 1000 mah, lil mamma tanks, lr cartos, more juice)

1. f. TYPE of menthol responsible for headaches? Could be...

But wait! What's this on the forum??? "Menthol added to 50/50 blend stops throat clearing???" Less menthol for 60/40, 70/30, and so on? Holy crap. (Frantically combines different bottles of SAME ejuices with varying vg/pg ratios and nic content and... voila) No headache. No Throat clearing.
THANK YOU, SWEET BABY... crap, I still want a cigarette.

To this point;
Cost: maybe $300
Time on forum: Maybe 10 hours
ok... let's screw with a good thing....

2. Nicotine.
Too much and I'm headed for a coma (at 24 mg my first few days my BG went from 120 to 423. Holy. Crap. Batman.)
Too little? I have cravings and, really, what's the point of this whole adventure? Not to mention the risk of these headaches.
I'll save you the step by step. I fooled with varying degrees of nicmg until my sugar was ok. Now, holy cow...

I only had... 10 cigs today? On a gig night? An 18 hour day with 10 cigs? You're kidding me...

3. Taste.
If ONLY i actually LIKED the flipping taste.... let's buy more juice.
30. bottle of ejuice from at least 10 vendors later and... nada, zilch, nothing. The closest I've got is my standby J55 from Rawr (50/50, 6mg), mixed with Tobacco pure from Volcano (?/? 16mg), mixed with Volcano's menthol (?/? 0% maybe 10% of mix)

4. *scratch, scratch* what the frak is this?
My hand has turned reptilian. I'm turning into an alligator. Now the skin cracks and it looks like I've gone a round with John Sullivan.
Time to turn down the PG? Sure. Ok. I REALLY don't want to go back to clearing my throat every 5 flipping seconds. Put some bag balm on it. It'll be fine. But... wait...

5. What the HELL IS THIS TASTE IN MY MOUTH?? It tastes like Rubbing alcohol mixed with dirt! Perfect!
(Frantically mixes to lower PG)

6. MY TEETH HURT!
(frantically mixes to reduce nic content)

7. I WANT A CIGARETTE! NURSE RATCHET! I WANT MY CIGARETTES!!!!!!!

Do you see? Do you see the insanity that has become my life? I have hundreds of dollars and at least 100 hours invested in this. I don't want to go back to smoking full time. I need some serious, straight up, no bull...., no "i could be sponsored by this company...but I'm not telling YOU" advise. I have SCOURED the withdrawal symptoms. I have POURED over the advise columns. Trust me. I KNOW it's the juice.

Help me believe, here, guys. Somebody.

Edited: Yes. I'm drinking tons of water. Liquid tons of water. The headaches subsided along with hydration, dumping my juice stash, and reducing pg levels. The reptilian hide and aching teeth, however...

Hey Tom,

I appreciate you seem to be taking this all with a good sense of humor. I echo some of the responses here. Was you blood sugar also spiking when you smoked cigarettes?

I'm not sure that higher nicotine means better throat hit, but could be wrong. Another way to get throat hit is higher voltage or wattage.

In regards to the other weird and various symptoms that are popping, I would gently ask, are you detoxifying from anything other than alcohol? You don't need to answer that, but consider that toxins can come out in your skin, which sounds like a dermatitis. And they can give headaches. Others here are right as well, this stuff is very drying, and high nicotine levels can give a headache.

I think the suggestion of testing out PG and VG at 0mg and such is a good plan, at any rate. Let us know what you figure out!

 

[daPorkchop]

I didn't read all the suggestions and I apologize. What I can recommend is to indeed drink even MORE water. PG (and I assume VG) is actually a dehydrator.

" Propylene Glycol (PG) traps and holds moisture in your body, causing dehydration. You can easily fix this by drinking more fluids."

My main suggestion would be to look at the do it yourself section for E-Liquids. It will save you money while you try to find out the perfect mix.

Hope you're able to figure it out, I would hate for you to go back to analogs.

 

[Cookster]

Okay, here's my

1. Some vendors juice contains artificial sweeteners, i.e., sucralose. I can actually taste it. DIY might be the way to go for you. You can control what's going into your e liquid.
2. High VG makes me all phlegmy and gloppy. I use 80/20 PG/VG. Even at 75/25 Pg/VG, I get gloppy.
3. The dry skin probably comes from too much PG. BUT...I looked at all my toiletries, and every single one had PG in it. I was overdosing on it. Cut out all PG skin products, and the problem went away.
4. The Flavor Apprentice makes two different Menthols, on in a PG solution, one in an Alcohol solution. Mebbe try both and see which one works better for you.

That's all I've got for the moment. Hope some of it helps.

 

[MorpheusPA]

Number one, I'd see your doctor immediately with those blood sugar spikes. (S)He might be able to help with recommendations.

PG reactions are uncommon but definitely heard-of. You may be allergic to it, but VG doesn't seem to make you happy either. I'd be tempted to try diluting your VG solutions with a bit of distilled water to reduce the phlegm issue.

You might try a 20% PG/80% VG mix to see if you're more tolerant of that. Add distilled water as needed to thin the mix out and make it easier for you to vape.

 

[akatina]

I agree with all the previous posters that a visit to your doctor (or even a call in to an Ask A Nurse line) is very much in order.

I'm not a doctor, I don't even play one on TV. I'm also not a diabetic.

I am, however, very sensitive to when my blood sugar dips. I've noticed that since I stopped the analogs I have to be more diligent in consistently eating otherwise low blood sugar will blindside me. My instinct is telling me that perhaps a change in diet or the timing of your meals would help. But again, I am in no way a doctor.

 

[GreenEyes14]

Sorry to hear about your BG spikes. I am a Type 1 diabetic, insulin dependent (4x) a day.
I vape at 18 mg,and see no bg spikes. The only time it goes up is when I drink lemonade
Or other sweet beverages instead of water when I vape. I am a chain vaper all day long.
I to enjoy menthol, and have no spikes.

 

[Berylanna]

The timing of when the nicotine hits you is drastically different with vaping vs. combustibles. That means the timing of everything to do with blood sugar might be affected.

You'll probably have to ask other diabetics what they do. But if you keep vaping high nic until you feel satisfied, by then you might have MORE nicotine in the process of getting absorbed, so 1/2 hour later you have too much for your blood sugar regimen. So I wondered if vaping w/nic for a few minutes followed by 0 nic while you wait for the nic to hit you....might let you "schedule" your blood sugar better? I have no idea.

I know that vaping has affected my metabolism, I just outgrew a pair of pants that were loose, and I'm someone who NEVER EVER gains weight if I'm smoking. I take that to mean the smoking somehow disappeared some blood sugar more than vaping is. I have also noticed the dry skin, I think I'm going to have to start doing cardio exercise for capillary circulation (now that I can almost breathe again) and using lotions. Also noticed the post-nasal drip from the VG in my 50/50, I'm just putting up with it.