At my wits end... a cry for help.

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nchamber68

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I would actually like it if you could explain diabetes and water drinking to me, please :)

I know I am not the OP, and that this seems to be (largely) off topic, but it's one of my soap box subjects and I can't resist answering your question...plus it's something I really wish more people understood. :)

<Steps onto soap box> Ahem...

The entire reason they thought you might possibly be a diabetic as a child was because of the excessive thirst/excessive urination...those are often the first, or even the only, warning signs of diabetes that a doctor or parent will notice.

The pancreas of type one diabetics don't (or can't) make insulin...type two diabetics might make plenty of insulin, or they might make too little, but either way their bodies don't use insulin properly. Type one diabetics have to have insulin to survive, many type two's can get by without even using medication (for a long time) if they are very careful.

Medical practitioners have very little real idea what causes the pancreas to stop working, or what leads to the development of type two diabetes. The 'common knowledge' out there about diabetes, even that pushed by the ADA, is very often wrong. I was a vegetarian, health-nut, who exercised for at least an hour a day, and had a BMI of 21 when I developed type two diabetes...so, which one caused it then, my healthy diet or my healthy lifestyle? :confused: (Common knowledge my *#%! :glare:) I am also far from alone in not fitting the common idea of what leads to diabetes. Whether you will develop diabetes (or not) has very little to do with diet or lifestyle, and often seems to defy genetics as well. (Anyway...back to the whole drinking water thing. :blush:)

Diabetes is frequently a dehydrating condition, because when the diabetic's system cannot process glucose out of the bloodstream properly the kidneys have to flush the excess from the body.

When the blood glucose levels start to rise dramatically the kidneys go into overdrive trying to remove the glucose from the blood which causes excessive urination. The excessive amount of water being pulled from the system by the kidneys while trying to process the glucose out of the blood leads to dehydration and causes excessive thirst, on top of the already excessive hunger the diabetic is experiencing because, rather than being used, all the glucose is floating around uselessly in their blood (or being eliminated as waste).

More water will help to flush some of the excess glucose out, but if diabetics in this cycle eat any carbohydrates (of any kind) they just continue to have steadily rising blood glucose levels because their bodies still aren't using the glucose that is already there. So, the glucose from pretty much anything hyperglycemic diabetics eat will just float around in their bloodstreams until it too is eliminated as waste...all the while their brains are sending out signals telling them that they are starving to death because they aren't able to use the glucose that is already there.

It's a horrible, miserable, vicious cycle, and can be quite painful in a wide variety of ways (both physical and mental).

Basically, diabetics will frequently feel like they are starving to death and dying of thirst (unless/until their bodies finally start to process excess glucose), because that's exactly what their brain is telling them is happening.

<steps off of soap box, takes bow> :D

Sorry that was so long, but I hope it explained the diabetes and drinking water thing.

That whole process I described above is why I think that all endocrinologists should start suggesting vaping to their patients who are struggling to get their BG or weight under control. It's really hard for people who have never felt that cycle to understand, but people who've tried to quit smoking can understand it far better than most. There are times when I am so hungry I feel like I can't think or times when I have vivid dreams about stuffing myself with candy even though I don't have a sweet tooth or want to eat any sweets. Intellectually I know I'm not hungry, and I'm not starving, but I feel like I'm gonna die if I don't eat.

Those food cravings can be far worse than the overwhelming nicotine fits I had every other time I ever tried to quit smoking (the ones without my PV). Maybe it's just me, but do you know what I mean...about those times when you wanted a cigarette so badly you would have happily fought someone just to get a whiff of one?

My PV and sweet flavors have been a godsend, not just for getting off the stinkies but for ending those godawful food craving cycles I had absolutely no control over. Now I can use my PV to help stave off those cravings as well, while I work on getting my BG levels down. It's a huge relief. :laugh:
 

mostlyclassics

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Excellent series of posts and summary, nchamber68!

Not necessarily, be sure to keep an eye on your BG. I was hypoglycemic for 20 years (until I was 32) and then I became Type II...diet and exercise controlled so far, yay me.

I was hypoglycemic my whole life (I'm 64), until I had a physical a few months ago. Fasting BG was 130. Apparently, some hypoglycemics can get "whipsawed": hypoglycemia can suddenly turn into type II diabetes. With a low glycemic load diet and walking exercise, my BG now averages 90 and never spikes over 115.

Tomf, vaping has introduced a new wild-card into your life. I'm afraid you're just going to have to tinker with one factor at a time -- since you're diabetic, you know how this works. What a huge nuisance! Best of luck!
 
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tomf

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UPDATE

Hey guys,

Sorry I haven't updated in awhile. We just got smacked with this blizzard. It was funny that along with bread, milk, and flashlight batteries, I also made sure that I had all my batteries charged up and juice in an easily located spot in the event that we lost power. Something you don't necessarily think about when initially trying the vaping switch.

Currently at 9mg, 50/50 mix flavored and also a 60v/40p 9mg flavored mix.
-Throat clearing has diminished substantially.
-Rash is all but gone.
-Teeth are fine.
-Headaches have not returned.
-Nic OD symptoms have abated.
Both of these mixes are tobacco flavored. I've been experimenting with some coffee flavors recently with varying results, mostly increased throat clearing.
Still to be done is my un-flavored experiment. I'm reluctant to start it at this point as I'm starting to show significant improvement on all fronts...
BG continues to be normal but:
- I mistook a bottle of 15 mg for 9mg and noticed a significant spike pre-dinner.
- dumped the tank, filled with 9mg and fasting bg was normal the following morning.
- Data continues to point to NIC as the culprit for BG spikes.

Also in the news:
Recently picked up a Zmax and I'm really enjoying it. Provari continues to call my name in the middle of the night... Creepy...
Interestingly, with PG/VG ratio and nicotine level being equal between devices, my throat clearing issue seemed to clear up when the vapor is warmer??? I'll continue to mess with this, but I'm wondering if anyone else has seen similar results?
On the way is a Cobra RBA. I'm intrigued by the vapor production and temperature and a genesis style atomizer has been suggested to me several times. We'll see!

I knew going into this that money would have to be shelled out to build a rig that I like. I was spending about $400 a month on analogs so I look at that as my budget for mods and juice. I started keeping track on 1/1/13 and I'm down to about 40 cigarettes a week from about 200. That's progress. Yesterday I had 1. Uno. And it took until about 1030pm before I realized it... This is working. Without a doubt. Now to work out the last few kinks.

Also, this thread has really been a support group for me. Just knowing that you guys read these updates motivates me to keep trying. The forum itself occupies a ton of my time and it deserves a lot of the credit. The time spent researching new mods, different cartomizers, learning about OHM's law, etc etc is something that I .....ed about in my OP. I realize now that it's been taking up time I would have otherwise used smoking or thinking about smoking.

You ROCK.
 

Disconnect

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Congrats on the improvement!! I haven't noticed any more or less clearing with warmer vapor but it is certainly possible that something about the warmth itself (or the warmer vapor) is doing that. (Off the top of my head, if it isn't the warmth directly it could be that significantly less juice is recondensing in your throat. That'd lead to less contact with the mucus membranes - less drying - and by extension less mucus production.)

My experiment has gone very slightly the other way - 6mg isn't working for me this weekend but 12-18mg is. Glad I didn't give them all away :) and I haven't felt like having a cig in most of a week. (I don't want one either way, I know how bad they'd taste by now, but I haven't thought it was time to go outside or gotten the "cig break" desire..)

The bad news is, I discovered Flavorz and Pink Spot, so now I am broke again. (And of course, I needed to order Valley tanks to hold the new juices...)
 

DanFromRioRancho

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Many vapers use cinnamon because it enhances TH. Cinnamon can be tough on certain clearos and tanks -- if you decide to give it a whirl, search the threads for the durable devices, you don't want to go broke on replacements.

An odd possibility might involve a bit of creativity, and maybe a bit of a hassle, but if it works and resolves some of your issues.........
perhaps you can get your nicotine with a controlled mechanism such as the patch/gum/lozenge while you fool the rest of your senses (taste, smell, sight of vapor exhalation, etc) with a zero-nic liquid.
 

tomf

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Congrats on the improvement!! I haven't noticed any more or less clearing with warmer vapor but it is certainly possible that something about the warmth itself (or the warmer vapor) is doing that. (Off the top of my head, if it isn't the warmth directly it could be that significantly less juice is recondensing in your throat. That'd lead to less contact with the mucus membranes - less drying - and by extension less mucus production.)

My experiment has gone very slightly the other way - 6mg isn't working for me this weekend but 12-18mg is. Glad I didn't give them all away :) and I haven't felt like having a cig in most of a week. (I don't want one either way, I know how bad they'd taste by now, but I haven't thought it was time to go outside or gotten the "cig break" desire..)

The bad news is, I discovered Flavorz and Pink Spot, so now I am broke again. (And of course, I needed to order Valley tanks to hold the new juices...)

I fully expect to be broke for awhile! But, hey, broke and happy is better than rich and miserable, right?
I've got one tank loaded with 15mg, a clearo loaded with 15mg roughneck (which, as I mentioned before, IMO is the closest to an analog i've found...) and a couple of tanks of experimental stuff. I like tanks. A lot. My bank account doesn't appreciate them the way I do...

I've tried to quit on several occasions. Each time I "forced" myself to abandon cigs altogether. Exercising willpower, not buying packs, not having a cigarette when I really wanted one.... And when I finally broke down I would "binge" smoke. Like, "I've been good for 2 days, I can reward myself by smoking an entire pack tonight" and, "go ahead, smoke it up. We'll do better tomorrow..."

I've taken a different approach on this round. I ALWAYS have cigarettes with me. If I want one, I say, "yeah, sure, we'll go have one in a little bit." (Yes. I talk to myself. And I answer. Weird? Sure.) But by the time I remember "we" were supposed to go have a smoke, it could be 5 hours (and 15 or 16 ecf threads, mod reviews) later. I think by removing the stress of FORCING myself to quit, I'm having a lot more success. Certainly the trend is on it's way down. If I go another year smoking 4 or 5 a day then that's what I'm going to do. It's better than 30 a day, right?
 

tomf

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Many vapers use cinnamon because it enhances TH. Cinnamon can be tough on certain clearos and tanks -- if you decide to give it a whirl, search the threads for the durable devices, you don't want to go broke on replacements.

An odd possibility might involve a bit of creativity, and maybe a bit of a hassle, but if it works and resolves some of your issues.........
perhaps you can get your nicotine with a controlled mechanism such as the patch/gum/lozenge while you fool the rest of your senses (taste, smell, sight of vapor exhalation, etc) with a zero-nic liquid.

Hey Dan,
I actually tried that a couple of years ago. I was smoking Njoy 0% and chewing nic gum (14mg?). It didn't work for me, or I should say it didn't work very well for me. Every time I popped a piece of gum and got that nic-peppery taste it triggered my analog craving with a vengeance. But, you're right in the fact that I didn't have any of the current side-effects that I have now. Then again, I didn't do it for very long! I haven't tried any cinnamon stuff yet, but that's been suggested a couple of times. I'll research it and give it a shot. Thanks Man!
 

brhollifield

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I just found this thread and was hooked when you said you had spent hundreds of dollars, I want to know how you do that... I have spent literally over a thousand in less than six months... Best money ever spent though... Good luck on your journey my friend and you can't put a price tag on your health.
 

Disconnect

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I fully expect to be broke for awhile! But, hey, broke and happy is better than rich and miserable, right?
I've got one tank loaded with 15mg, a clearo loaded with 15mg roughneck (which, as I mentioned before, IMO is the closest to an analog i've found...) and a couple of tanks of experimental stuff. I like tanks. A lot. My bank account doesn't appreciate them the way I do...

The VV tanks are juice-proof and well reviewed. Haven't gotten mine yet (3 hours would be insanely fast delivery :)) but.. (He also says glass/pyrex ones should be in later this month.)

I've taken a different approach on this round. I ALWAYS have cigarettes with me. If I want one, I say, "yeah, sure, we'll go have one in a little bit." (Yes. I talk to myself. And I answer. Weird? Sure.) But by the time I remember "we" were supposed to go have a smoke, it could be 5 hours (and 15 or 16 ecf threads, mod reviews) later. I think by removing the stress of FORCING myself to quit, I'm having a lot more success. Certainly the trend is on it's way down. If I go another year smoking 4 or 5 a day then that's what I'm going to do. It's better than 30 a day, right?

Neat! I owned an open pack for a week, ended up giving it to a superbowl guest. (Turned out I had 2 but I didn't know I had the other; found it the other day, still sealed, in a bag from about a month ago.)
 

DanFromRioRancho

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I actually tried that a couple of years ago.

The changes in equipment and juices over the years since your experience with Njoy are crazy huge. I had been a 1.5 PAD for 45 years (that's right.....45 years!) and my first steps with eliquid were tobacco based. They eliminated almost all of my analogs, but couldn't get me past the finish line. On a whim, I tried a Honeydew (melon) flavor and poof! no more desire for cigs. Surprised the hell out of me.

Found more than a few threads since I joined here where the (ex)smokers needed something non-tobacco. You might consider some of the sample packs that are available -- you just never know when something unexpected does the trick.
 

tomf

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I just found this thread and was hooked when you said you had spent hundreds of dollars, I want to know how you do that... I have spent literally over a thousand in less than six months... Best money ever spent though... Good luck on your journey my friend and you can't put a price tag on your health.

I am afraid of doing an actual tally at this point. I don't want to know, honestly, because it might influence me to cut back. I'll throw money at this until I find something that works, works consistently, and keeps me smoke-free. If you take all my other quitting attempts into account and add up the money spent... I could have a nice new guitar right now. However, if I'd been able to quit smoking when I first tried... I could have a really nice Car right now. Or take year off from work.
 

tomf

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On a whim, I tried a Honeydew (melon) flavor and poof! no more desire for cigs. Surprised the hell out of me.

I've been trying sample packs from all over the place. I try to do half that "sound good" to me and half that "don't sound appealing." I discovered pretty quickly that I didn't want an analog taste, even though I was hellbent on finding it! Right now, I'm trying flavors that have a tobacco base with other flavors on top. It's the best I've done so far!

45 years at 1.5 PAD. You, sir, are an inspiration. How long have you been smoke-free?
 

tomf

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The VV tanks are juice-proof and well reviewed. Haven't gotten mine yet (3 hours would be insanely fast delivery :)) but.. (He also says glass/pyrex ones should be in later this month.)

Have you tried these Kir Fanis Prive tanks? It's on my radar... Right now I've got an Artemus, a Lil Mamma, and 2 DCTs. For cinnamon, you want a glass tank right?
 
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tomf

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Haven't tried those.

Pyrex is safe for everything (its just a glass, doped to make it stronger) and polycarb cracks with certain chemicals/flavors. Polypropylene is plastic but impervious to all that, so it won't crack. (These tanks are the ones I got..)

Sweet. "Polycarbonate." That's the word I was looking for. Love the fill-hole concept, but I've been worried about leakage. I may need to get me one of those.
 

DanFromRioRancho

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45 years at 1.5 PAD. You, sir, are an inspiration. How long have you been smoke-free?

No inspiration at all. Zero. Zip. Nada. There was no effort, tears, frustrations, or hardships involved.

I'm just one of thousands (hundreds of thousands? More?) that found the right combination(s) of hardware and juices that "worked for me". Some of us stumble into the right combination through blind luck, others keep experimenting until it clicks.

My only message to you is to keep at it. Take joy in every analog you avoid smoking, don't beat yourself up over any analogs you do smoke, and keep fiddling until you find what "works for you". It WILL sneak up on you eventually, and probably will surprise the hell out of you when it does. The wait is worthwhile.
 
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