Atlantis killing battery

[novamatt]

...How does that even work? Now, I'm no expert, but I thought I had a pretty firm grasp on Ohm's law, and conservation of energy is one of the basic laws of physics. I mean, we're not all carrying around little perpetual-energy devices in our coat pockets, now are we? As the saying goes, "something's gotta give."

(Note: It's very probable that I am completely wrong here. This is my roundabout way of asking for someone to enlighten me further on the subject.)

Conservation of energy is the reason it works. You can't get 6 volts out of a 4.2 volt battery without exchanging something else to get it, and the exchange here is current for voltage. So we pull more amps from the battery in order to convert it to more voltage for the atomizer. Watts stay the same on both sides (minus a little bit lost to heat and such during the conversion process, but I'm going to leave that out here for simplicity's sake - almost all of these chips have an efficiency percentage on the spec sheet to describe this. A DNA40 is 92% efficient, so it loses 8%, which means the wattage on the battery side is going to be 8% higher than what the display says in order for the wattage to the atty to be accurate).

Basically, wattage has to be the same going into the chip as it is coming out of it, but voltage comes in at a set level of somewhere between 4.2 and 3.2-ish, depending on the battery level. So if we're sending 25 watts to the atomizer and we know the battery is at 4.2 volts, then to get that 25 watts (this is where Ohm's law comes in), we have to pull 5.95 amps from the battery. As the battery drains, the voltage coming in goes down, so the current draw goes up (because, for example, it takes 7.81 amps to get the same 25 watts when you only have 3.2 volts to work with). On the battery side, the chip varies its resistance in order to pull the correct amperage to get the output you want. Resistance of the atomizer only comes into play to determine how many volts to send to it. It doesn't affect anything on the pre-conversion side.

Does that make sense?

tl;dr Watts in = watts out. Which means that any time you're set over 4.2v, amps from the battery are higher than amps to the coil. That's why the spec sheets for all these high wattage devices require high drain batteries.

ETA: Steam engine's battery drain calculator has a setting for regulated devices and shows you what's going on for both sides of the equation. You can put all the variables in and see how it changes the numbers, if you want to play around with it.

It's not that any of your math is incorrect, it's just that you're only looking at half of the picture, and it's the half that's less relevant to the topic of battery life. When dealing with a regulated mod circuit, there are two different sets of Ohm's law calculations, one before you convert the output from the battery and another on the other side of the chip after it's been converted. The wattage is what links the two. You did all the calculations for the atomizer side, but the battery doesn't see any of that. It's got its own circuit, with a different set of numbers for voltage, amperage, and resistance.

Edited multiple times to try to reword more clearly. Hope it worked.

 

[smacksy]

My batts are in series on my 150w IPV3..two freshly charged 18650 at 4.2v is 8.4v available and exactly what it reads on the display at 150w...6v is easy on this mod and then some...lol

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[novamatt]

My batts are in series on my 150w IPV3..two freshly charged 18650 at 4.2v is 8.4v available and exactly what it reads on the display at 150w...6v is easy on this mod and then some...lol

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Right. The IPV3 and other series mods use a buck circuit, which makes the same trade the other way. When you put 2 fresh batteries in and set it for 25 watts, you're giving it 8.4 volts, so it's only going to pull 2.98 amps to output 25 watts. That's why the batteries last so long in these mods. When you put two batteries in series, you get double the voltage and the mAh capacity stays the same as if you only had one battery. But when you're only pulling 3 amps when a single battery mod has to pull 6, you'll get twice the usage out of that same capacity before the voltage drops enough to need a recharge.

 

[smacksy]

I agree..also the IPV3 does it all..love this mod!

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[Noraj1067]

I agree..also the IPV3 does it all..love this mod!

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How long does your ipv last charge wise? Can you charge it via USB ? Also, will it worksite the nautilus and other non sub ohm tanks?

also, I've noticed that I like to vape around 4 watts. With the ipv it says it only goes down to 6. Does that mean that it wouldn't be a good fit for me? I'm trying to find a box mod that goes over 30 watts, has a long battery life, and can be USB charged with pass thru capability. Thanks for the info!

 

[smacksy]

How long does your ipv last charge wise? Can you charge it via USB ? Also, will it worksite the nautilus and other non sub ohm tanks?

also, I've noticed that I like to vape around 4 watts. With the ipv it says it only goes down to 6. Does that mean that it wouldn't be a good fit for me? I'm trying to find a box mod that goes over 30 watts, has a long battery life, and can be USB charged with pass thru capability. Thanks for the info!

Hi Nora,
If you like to vape at only 4w you really wouldn't need a 150w mod like the IPV3.. I run my Atlantis at 35w and my RDA drippers from 65-95w depending on the build..but 4w??..look for something else maybe..this mod doesn't even go down to 4w...quite frankly I don't know anybody that vapes that low..if you meant 4v now that's a different story..
Also all you have to do is a little research on the IPV3..tons of info online that can answer questions for you better than I can...good luck!

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[Noraj1067]

I meant volts... Sorry about that. I def don't need 150 watts. I would be fine with a 50. I just can't find one that has a good battery life.

Hi Nora,
If you like to vape at only 4w you really wouldn't need a 150w mod like the IPV3.. I run my Atlantis at 35w and my RDA drippers from 65-95w depending on the build..but 4w??..look for something else maybe..this mod doesn't even go down to 4w...quite frankly I don't know anybody that vapes that low..if you meant 4v now that's a different story..
Also all you have to do is a little research on the IPV3..tons of info online that can answer questions for you better than I can...good luck!

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[Bunnykiller]

Not quite a fair comparison there, you have two batteries in one device, and a big honkin' battery in another.

well it is kinda.... 2 days on the dual should be close to 1 day on a single but the OP is getting about 1 hour....

 

[smacksy]

I meant volts... Sorry about that. I def don't need 150 watts. I would be fine with a 50. I just can't find one that has a good battery life.

You won't either till you get a mod with dual batteries..dual batts share the load and even because the IPV3 can go 150w doesn't mean I have to run it that high..
At 35w its been vaping my Atlantis going on three days on a single charge..my black IVP3 has been powering my Dark Horse RDA with a .2 ohm build at 80w a day and a half now also on a single charge..dual batts go a long ways...

They're coming out soon with the new 100w IPV4..USB charging and magnetic batt door....just do a little research and I'm sure you'll find several dual batt mods that will power your Atlantis with the great batt life your looking for.. .[emoji39]

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[bwh79]

Basically, wattage has to be the same going into the chip as it is coming out of it, but voltage comes in at a set level [...] On the battery side, the chip varies its resistance in order to pull the correct amperage to get the output you want. Resistance of the atomizer only comes into play to determine how many volts to send to it. It doesn't affect anything on the pre-conversion side.

Does that make sense?

Yeah I think it does, actually. So going back to the example of 25w at either 0.5 vs 1.5ohms, then in both cases the battery is pushing 25 watts at 4.2(-ish) volts either way:

25 = 4.2*4.2/ohms
25*ohms = 4.2*4.2 = 17.64
Ohms = 17.64/25 = 0.7056
Amps = 4.2/ohms = 4.2/0.7056 = 5.95

So the chip adjusts its resistance (I won't ask you how it does that) to roughly 0.7 ohm in order to draw the required 5.95 amps for a total power output of 25 watts, no matter what's going on on the other side? So, no matter what, the amp draw on the battery is 5.95 (-ish, until the battery starts to drain which it will also do at the same rate, regardless), and the charge will last for just as long regardless of what kind of atomizer is attached to the other side. Then, on the other side, it dumps that whole 25w into the atomizer, at whatever voltage that happens to be, is that right?

Is the same kind of thing going on inside my eGo Twist-style battery? I mean, I have to adjust the voltage myself in that case but say I do the math and set it at whatever is necessary to achieve, say, 10 watts (4.5v with a 2.1 ohm coil, for example.) Then I swap coils and turn the dial down so it's at 3.8v with a 1.5 ohm coil, for those same 10 watts. So is it safe to say that in both cases, the battery is pulling equal duty, 2.38 amps at 4.2v and 1.764 ohms, for that 10w total output? Or does it work differently for a VV, non-VW device?

 

[crxess]

I meant volts... Sorry about that. I def don't need 150 watts. I would be fine with a 50. I just can't find one that has a good battery life.

Sadly, I know of one at the moment. Unfortunately it looks like a kids toy. Maybe a Wrap would fix the Flaw.
It IS an IPV Rip Off the IPV2 I believe.
$55.62 Unicorn 7W-50W Variable Wattage VW APV Box Mod - 2*18650 / aluminum / silver at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping

Ummm.............Parallel for 2x capacity

 

[Spirometry]

Nora's sweet spot is 25 watts and 4 volts.
That would mean that her coil is coming in at 0.64 Ohms. If she changes coils, lets say the next one comes in at 0.52, the volts required to the atty would be 3.61 for 25w
I recommend a device that has step down.

 

[Spirometry]

This is a great discussion..that said I just tried a .8 ohm build on dual freshly charged 2600 mAh I8650 batts at 60w..(6.9v) vaping about an hour batts were down 40%..I'm gonna try another build at .2 ohms at whatever watts it takes to get 6.9v. Will see for myself which build has longer batt life in my IPV3..You guys have me curious... Lol

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No, no no..

Watts is the constant.

When you do the 0.20 build set it at the same 60 watts, not the same voltage.

 

[smacksy]

No, no no..

Watts is the constant.

When you do the 0.20 build set it at the same 60 watts, not the same voltage.

Well my test was about battery life..I've found a .27 build lasted all day and then some at 82w. With the batts in series in my IPV3 I have 150w/8.4v available.. At 82 watts on this .27 build the display reads 4.9v...a good compromise on power and batt life, and BTW, it blows clouds that have to be seen to be believed...lol

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[novamatt]

Yeah I think it does, actually. So going back to the example of 25w at either 0.5 vs 1.5ohms, then in both cases the battery is pushing 25 watts at 4.2(-ish) volts either way:

25 = 4.2*4.2/ohms
25*ohms = 4.2*4.2 = 17.64
Ohms = 17.64/25 = 0.7056
Amps = 4.2/ohms = 4.2/0.7056 = 5.95

So the chip adjusts its resistance (I won't ask you how it does that) to roughly 0.7 ohm in order to draw the required 5.95 amps for a total power output of 25 watts, no matter what's going on on the other side? So, no matter what, the amp draw on the battery is 5.95 (-ish, until the battery starts to drain which it will also do at the same rate, regardless), and the charge will last for just as long regardless of what kind of atomizer is attached to the other side. Then, on the other side, it dumps that whole 25w into the atomizer, at whatever voltage that happens to be, is that right?

Is the same kind of thing going on inside my eGo Twist-style battery? I mean, I have to adjust the voltage myself in that case but say I do the math and set it at whatever is necessary to achieve, say, 10 watts (4.5v with a 2.1 ohm coil, for example.) Then I swap coils and turn the dial down so it's at 3.8v with a 1.5 ohm coil, for those same 10 watts. So is it safe to say that in both cases, the battery is pulling equal duty, 2.38 amps at 4.2v and 1.764 ohms, for that 10w total output? Or does it work differently for a VV, non-VW device?

To be honest with you, I have no idea. I'm not an engineer by any stretch of the imagination. I learned all this stuff from asking a lot of questions and getting answers from people much smarter than me. And what I was trying to figure out was battery safety and life in the regulated high wattage mods. I didn't know enough when I was using ego batteries to even wonder how they did it, and by the time I started learning, I hadn't used an ego in so long that it didn't even occur to me to ask.

That said, it would make sense. I mean, let's look at the same situation you described above. We know that if you swap the atomizer out without turning the voltage down, the lower resistance coil will drain the battery faster. And if we turn the power down, it will last longer. So turning the voltage down would balance out the faster drain from the lower resistance atomizer, the only uncertainty is whether turning it down to 10 watts is the right spot. Knowing what we know about the other ones (and just taking an educated guess from past experience), it sounds about right to me.

 

[smacksy]

My vaporshark rDNA 40 last almost 4 days with the supplied lg 2500 mah at 20-25 watts depending on the juice. Its the life of the atomizer that that stinks. Also when I throw it on the Aspire sub ohm the battery last two days. I'm seeing some real inconsistencies in regard to the Atlantis all over the web. I smoke generally thick 6mg at a fairly moderate pace.

The Atlantis works wonderfully well for me at 35w..I've experienced no issues at all with them..its almost the same consistent vape I get dripping..coils are lasting good too..its been a week on both of them and still hitting like the day I installed them..getting the 7ml tank was good too..one fill up lasts all day..

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[ScandaLeX]

The Atlantis works wonderfully well for me at 35w..I've experienced no issues at all with them..its almost the same consistent vape I get dripping..coils are lasting good too..its been a week on both of them and still hitting like the day I installed them..getting the 7ml tank was good too..one fill up lasts all day..

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Is the IPV3 your first mod? Just asking cause you keep posting your mod pic with every reply.

 

[smacksy]

Is the IPV3 your first mod? Just asking cause you keep posting your mod pic with every reply.

They are not my first mods, actually they are somewhere along the line of my 15th and 16th in my ever growing collection..(been vaping 2 yrs) Also I like to post pics when I can because they prove what my posts are about...but indeed my two IPV3's are my all time favorites..[emoji39]



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